Counting Cards -- a Dirty Cheat or a Legit Skill?

[hahay]

I just think if it is a skill and of course it is accompanied by luck, as we know gambling is a game of luck but when players have very good skills then players like this are very likely to get a higher level of luck than others, I think it is very unlikely they use cheats in gambling like this and or other casinos.

[maydna]

~snip~

It's enough stupid, i think anyone here understand. As i said before, "counting" doesn't affect probability of game result. For example, we are playing Hold'em, and i have two Jacks on my hand. So, i'm counting the probability to get at least one more Jack for set. This will be 2/50 (i don't count cards at my hand, and poker deck has 52 cards). Will it affect a chance to get one more Jack? Obvious - no.

So where is cheating?

Yes, that is not cheating, but the casino has the rule, and they can say that it is illegal or legal. We cannot do anything if they say that it is a dirty cheat, but if the casino is okay with that, then that will be no problem for us.

~snip~

I expected something like that. Methinks it can be now rightfully declared as an official grey area for the purposes of this thread. With that said, the case which at this point might be of interest to us (given the amount of attention this dilemma has drawn) is when it is illegal in a casino to do the card counting. And most interesting is how they are implementing this ban in practice. For example, how are they distinguishing between legitimately raising the stakes and what they think of as illegally upping the ante?

Anyone have an idea?

I don't have any idea since the casino can do anything they want, including to say counting card is illegal.

I think that is not a dilemma because as long as we don't use any technology, and you don't use any trickery or signals or anything else to communicate with someone else, then I guess that will not break the rule. But we know that they can easily ban someone in their place without notice, and they can search for any reason why they ban that person.

[abel1337]

As a gambler, I don't consider it a cheat and I consider it a skill. Acquiring a good use to that skill would absolutely give you an advantage in playing a certain game If a casino considers it as a dirty cheat, They can easily prohibit it. A gambler will do anything to win on a casino on a safe side that the money you can win can't be forfeited because you violated a casino's rule.

[Eugenar]

For me, counting cards is not illegal, it's just skill on you but the casinos do not allow the counting of cards because it will give you a big chance of winning the game but actually I don't get them, why they don't allow that kind of ability. There is much gambling that actually uses skills to have an advantage in the game and they don't even ban those things because it just depends on the person if they are going to use it or if they have that kind of skill.

[fortunecrypto]

If I can learn that skill I would love to practice that, but I'm the kind that is so preoccupied with so many things in mind, I don't think it's possible for average guy like me, and I consider it a rare skill, to be able to remember all the cards that are passing, I also consider this a threat to gambling casinos, that is why they do not allow such player to play.

[deisik]

The reason that the casinos are considering counting card as an illegal move is because the players have a higher chance of winning, and a player winning is something that the casino hates, they loss profits when there are constant increase in winners

This logic is not without flaws

Okay, some players who can count cards are taking from the house edge, we get it. But if we assume that card counting is a natural skill as long as you only use your brains for it, then any such skill should be considered as taking advantage on the house. In this manner of reasoning, a casino should only let in gamblers with low IQ's, at least as far as skill-based games are concerned (where Blackjack belongs to)

Imagine mathematicians storm the casino and play blackjack and poker and other card games, this will cause an imbalance in edge because people are frequently winning rather than losing. With the rise of online platform, the card counting is getting harder

I remember a story about some really smartass mathematician who was able to drain a casino dry by making right bets at the right time. He got thrown out in the end (more like denied entry but still)

[Bezobraznike]

If I can learn that skill I would love to practice that, but I'm the kind that is so preoccupied with so many things in mind, I don't think it's possible for average guy like me, and I consider it a rare skill, to be able to remember all the cards that are passing, I also consider this a threat to gambling casinos, that is why they do not allow such player to play.

   There are some exercises for training your brain to memorize things faster, and to learn more! You can
find some online stuff about it, free books and videos about people who are practice that! Anyone can
try that, but we saw in the movies that casinos don't like card counters! Playing BJ online is different I think,
who can guarantee that you play with only one deck?!
   Counting cards is a skill, skill that can earn you some money, and probably a skill that annoy casino stuff!

[deisik]

Also in your example, your friends got killed, so where's the law there? people from casino sometimes put the law in their hands

That makes an interesting case for looking into it deeper

If we are talking about the US casinos, many seem to be run by Native Americans in reservations. And to my knowledge, these Indian tribes have a certain amount of sovereignty, so their reservation can be considered an enclave, i.e. an independent country surrounded by foreign territory. In practical terms, when you turn up there, whatever the reason, you are no longer protected by the federal law. In the end, it may turn out a total no-law zone, and thus you are on your own there (Nevada has its own gambling laws as well)