How high is the probability of accusations vs. casinos in BitcoinTalk are true?

[paxmao]

Truth be told, and lets ditch the word ‘scam’ for just a moment, most cases would probably favour players over casinos and woth good reason. I’m not saying every case, but most.

I’m a newbie on Bitcointalk, but i have noticed alot of players making remarks about withdrawals. “I made $15,000 and the casino won’t let me withdraw” type of statements, and its usually presented in regards to a newish casino, just launched few weeks or maybe some months back.

There was just a case of a guy deposting 5k and lost, deposited another 10k and made 25k profit and was unable to withdraw despite completing his KYC (and ill get on to KYC in just a moment).

The casino told him he couldnt withdraw the whole amount and would only be able to withdraw $500 daily and max $5,000 monthly. Excuse me but call it what you want, he shouldnt need to wait half a year to withdraw all his funds. To deposit 10k they had no issue with but wothdraw 25k yea let him wait.

KYC - your a casino? You take crypto as a form of payment? You say your “anonymous” so dont pretend or hide behind the biggest load of BS sub-license given by a bunch of monkeys. And when i mean hide behind its like this:
Deposit as much as you want, players can register from any country (even countries outside of the parameters of their license) but when you want to withdraw, ‘we have a license’ so show us your passport, your bank statements. And if your American and won, sorry, we’ll give you your initial deposit but you cant withdraw any winnings and were closing your account. US players can literally play for years before winning enough to withdraw, and then findi no themselves on the short end of the stick.

There are users that abuse and scam, and i understand security needs to be in place to make sure they are not being scammed,  but ill tell you something about that guy previously mentioned with the 25k win -
Opening a casino today is easy. You take a crappy white-label for a few thousand dollars, with all the crypto solution for psps, pay a designer to fix it up abit and you got yourself a brand new shinny casino. A small team of 3-5 can run it. And here is the problem. You have no idea whos behind them. Lets say they got into it with the best of intentions. Its not enough. How much money is backing them? Can they really host games for big players?
What happens if someone wins 500k?

The big casinos that have real VIP service can facilitate VIP players and perhaps with a 48 hour hold on a withdrawal can easily cash out a big player for 500k. THAT IS NOT TRUE FOR 95% of these crypto casinos.

So yes, plenty of scammer players.
But also many scammer casinos using all the leverage they can get to make sure you aint taking anything out.

My case point:
I am launching a poker room on telegram within 4-5 weeks. I wont give you details here as its not my thread, but casino and sports are options in the room, and im figuring out right now what we will include and what we are removing from the casino as i dont believe a new casino without a minimum of $2,000,000 backed in an open wallet should have on their site. I dont believe in KYC. You want KYC go to a traditional casino. Withdrawals for crypto should be automatic. If you cant facilitate that, then theres a problem with YOU the casino. Either your giving unrealistic bonus’ and promos or your facilitating games you can not honor.

 

Quite comprehensive analysis. All this comes to end in reputation, that is how much you trust the site versus how much you trust the guy. I think that there are several factors that build that trust - I think the first one is how long have you been in the market (site) or in the forum (player) and how much of a credible and documented event is there as accusation.

[pawanjain]

Currently, there's a pattern. A person makes a new account in BitcoinTalk, makes a topic/accuses a casino of scamming him/her, and because some users need to bump up their post count for their signature campaigns, the topic gets more attention than it should be during a normal situation.

OK, it's understandable that users need to bump up their post count, but we should also be responsible to find the truth, and merely not believing an accusation from a person who literally made a brand new account, nor discussing it with the person like something wrong actually happened. Because actual scammers themselves will take advantage of us.

What, is this really happening in here ?
I can't believe people are actually coming up with this just because they want to increase their post count. I mean, it's shame if people are falling to such extent.
On the other hand, I think we don't easily believe on newbie accounts anyway unless they post some solid evidence against the casino.

[EarnOnVictor]

Currently, there's a pattern. A person makes a new account in BitcoinTalk, makes a topic/accuses a casino of scamming him/her, and because some users need to bump up their post count for their signature campaigns, the topic gets more attention than it should be during a normal situation.

OK, it's understandable that users need to bump up their post count, but we should also be responsible to find the truth, and merely not believing an accusation from a person who literally made a brand new account, nor discussing it with the person like something wrong actually happened. Because actual scammers themselves will take advantage of us.

What, is this really happening in here ?
I can't believe people are actually coming up with this just because they want to increase their post count. I mean, it's shame if people are falling to such extent.
On the other hand, I think we don't easily believe on newbie accounts anyway unless they post some solid evidence against the casino.

I even thought it was something so special when I was reading your outburst not knowing it was about replying to newbie posts. Well, I can only tell you guys to cool down and if there is a post that is suspicious or of low quality, why not report such? Don't forget, what you are alleging is still merely suspicious, what if it's not real? If you are asking someone to post evidence and you can't also prove whether the person is genuine or not, what difference are you?

For me, any newbie may post their experience about casinos and they should not be crucified for it, neither are these people replying to it even if they can't offer direct help. So far the post is readable and constructive enough, it has its pass-mark, in my opinion. Also, those who are using new accounts to open threads may have their reasons and we should not always treat such less important. Some may only be readers of Bitcointalk and open a casino account through one of the signature links here. When there is a problem, they might believe Bitcointalk is a place where their voice can be heard, so they may open an account. Some may not necessarily know Bitcointalk beforehand but were just referred here to see if their issue can be solved. Are people not going to websites newly to register their complaints against businesses?

[pawanjain]

I even thought it was something so special when I was reading your outburst not knowing it was about replying to newbie posts. Well, I can only tell you guys to cool down and if there is a post that is suspicious or of low quality, why not report such? Don't forget, what you are alleging is still merely suspicious, what if it's not real? If you are asking someone to post evidence and you can't also prove whether the person is genuine or not, what difference are you?

For me, any newbie may post their experience about casinos and they should not be crucified for it, neither are these people replying to it even if they can't offer direct help. So far the post is readable and constructive enough, it has its pass-mark, in my opinion. Also, those who are using new accounts to open threads may have their reasons and we should not always treat such less important. Some may only be readers of Bitcointalk and open a casino account through one of the signature links here. When there is a problem, they might believe Bitcointalk is a place where their voice can be heard, so they may open an account. Some may not necessarily know Bitcointalk beforehand but were just referred here to see if their issue can be solved. Are people not going to websites newly to register their complaints against businesses?

Yeah that makes sense. We shouldn't ignore newbie posts just because of their rank just like that.
Some people find this platform in the process of reviewing a casino and inorder to raise awareness as well.
I guess we need to be diligent enough while reading accusation posts as they deal with someone's reputation.
At the same time, I still believe we should ask them for sufficient evidence to back their accusation against the casino.

[delfastTions]

I even thought it was something so special when I was reading your outburst not knowing it was about replying to newbie posts. Well, I can only tell you guys to cool down and if there is a post that is suspicious or of low quality, why not report such? Don't forget, what you are alleging is still merely suspicious, what if it's not real? If you are asking someone to post evidence and you can't also prove whether the person is genuine or not, what difference are you?

For me, any newbie may post their experience about casinos and they should not be crucified for it, neither are these people replying to it even if they can't offer direct help. So far the post is readable and constructive enough, it has its pass-mark, in my opinion. Also, those who are using new accounts to open threads may have their reasons and we should not always treat such less important. Some may only be readers of Bitcointalk and open a casino account through one of the signature links here. When there is a problem, they might believe Bitcointalk is a place where their voice can be heard, so they may open an account. Some may not necessarily know Bitcointalk beforehand but were just referred here to see if their issue can be solved. Are people not going to websites newly to register their complaints against businesses?

Yeah that makes sense. We shouldn't ignore newbie posts just because of their rank just like that.
Some people find this platform in the process of reviewing a casino and inorder to raise awareness as well.
I guess we need to be diligent enough while reading accusation posts as they deal with someone's reputation.
At the same time, I still believe we should ask them for sufficient evidence to back their accusation against the casino.

My experience of reading posts from newcomers complaining about improper actions on the part of the casino clearly shows that in 90% of cases the newcomer accusing the casino is wrong.  Simply because he did not understand the rules enough, did not read the ToS carefully and thought that his game actions should have a result that was not the same as it turned out.  And such a user usually writes accusations against the casino also in a state of indignation and under the influence of his extremely strong dissatisfaction, usually due to the loss of his money in a particular casino.  Moreover, usually such indignant authors of posts simply do not have any real evidence of their rightness in the dispute with the casino. 
But in a number of cases, the casino is still wrong, but such cases still happen relatively few.

[uchegod-21]

Currently, there's a pattern. A person makes a new account in BitcoinTalk, makes a topic/accuses a casino of scamming him/her, and because some users need to bump up their post count for their signature campaigns, the topic gets more attention than it should be during a normal situation.

OK, it's understandable that users need to bump up their post count, but we should also be responsible to find the truth, and merely not believing an accusation from a person who literally made a brand new account, nor discussing it with the person like something wrong actually happened. Because actual scammers themselves will take advantage of us.

What, is this really happening in here ?
I can't believe people are actually coming up with this just because they want to increase their post count. I mean, it's shame if people are falling to such extent.
On the other hand, I think we don't easily believe on newbie accounts anyway unless they post some solid evidence against the casino.

I have raised this question before, that how come 90% of complaints and accusations we get about casinos promoting here is from newbies. Mostly accounts with less than 10 activity.?
Does it mean that old members don't run into such problems or the casinos avoid old members account and do some shitty things with the new members.

In the other way round, I thought maybe some old users here create new accounts to complain in order not to bring their old accounts to timeline of the forum. But of what benefit will this be?
But I am not much worried because members of this forum know how to identify the truth and lies.

[EarnOnVictor]

I even thought it was something so special when I was reading your outburst not knowing it was about replying to newbie posts. Well, I can only tell you guys to cool down and if there is a post that is suspicious or of low quality, why not report such? Don't forget, what you are alleging is still merely suspicious, what if it's not real? If you are asking someone to post evidence and you can't also prove whether the person is genuine or not, what difference are you?

For me, any newbie may post their experience about casinos and they should not be crucified for it, neither are these people replying to it even if they can't offer direct help. So far the post is readable and constructive enough, it has its pass-mark, in my opinion. Also, those who are using new accounts to open threads may have their reasons and we should not always treat such less important. Some may only be readers of Bitcointalk and open a casino account through one of the signature links here. When there is a problem, they might believe Bitcointalk is a place where their voice can be heard, so they may open an account. Some may not necessarily know Bitcointalk beforehand but were just referred here to see if their issue can be solved. Are people not going to websites newly to register their complaints against businesses?

Yeah that makes sense. We shouldn't ignore newbie posts just because of their rank just like that.
Some people find this platform in the process of reviewing a casino and inorder to raise awareness as well.
I guess we need to be diligent enough while reading accusation posts as they deal with someone's reputation.
At the same time, I still believe we should ask them for sufficient evidence to back their accusation against the casino.

My experience of reading posts from newcomers complaining about improper actions on the part of the casino clearly shows that in 90% of cases the newcomer accusing the casino is wrong.  Simply because he did not understand the rules enough, did not read the ToS carefully and thought that his game actions should have a result that was not the same as it turned out.  And such a user usually writes accusations against the casino also in a state of indignation and under the influence of his extremely strong dissatisfaction, usually due to the loss of his money in a particular casino.  Moreover, usually such indignant authors of posts simply do not have any real evidence of their rightness in the dispute with the casino.  
But in a number of cases, the casino is still wrong, but such cases still happen relatively few.

That could only mean we've not been reading the same accusations often because, in my experience, the reverse is the case. As you called 90% of wrong accusations are due to the wrong understanding of the casino's Ts&Cs, I call it 10% if I will be fair, and that 10% are often refuted and the OP is guided by the forum users, as no one will come out to support what the OP is guilty of.

But in my experience, the 90% are always real allegations that have nothing to do with the understanding of the Ts&Cs of the casinos. What I won't do is take sides but always want both parties to have a fair hearing so that a reasonable conclusion can be made. This is also applicable to those who can't prove their claims, when the casino has blocked the account, I wonder how much prove that such a person can furnish. That shouldn't mean they are lying, believing that will equally be an assumption.

[delfastTions]

I even thought it was something so special when I was reading your outburst not knowing it was about replying to newbie posts. Well, I can only tell you guys to cool down and if there is a post that is suspicious or of low quality, why not report such? Don't forget, what you are alleging is still merely suspicious, what if it's not real? If you are asking someone to post evidence and you can't also prove whether the person is genuine or not, what difference are you?

For me, any newbie may post their experience about casinos and they should not be crucified for it, neither are these people replying to it even if they can't offer direct help. So far the post is readable and constructive enough, it has its pass-mark, in my opinion. Also, those who are using new accounts to open threads may have their reasons and we should not always treat such less important. Some may only be readers of Bitcointalk and open a casino account through one of the signature links here. When there is a problem, they might believe Bitcointalk is a place where their voice can be heard, so they may open an account. Some may not necessarily know Bitcointalk beforehand but were just referred here to see if their issue can be solved. Are people not going to websites newly to register their complaints against businesses?

Yeah that makes sense. We shouldn't ignore newbie posts just because of their rank just like that.
Some people find this platform in the process of reviewing a casino and inorder to raise awareness as well.
I guess we need to be diligent enough while reading accusation posts as they deal with someone's reputation.
At the same time, I still believe we should ask them for sufficient evidence to back their accusation against the casino.

My experience of reading posts from newcomers complaining about improper actions on the part of the casino clearly shows that in 90% of cases the newcomer accusing the casino is wrong.  Simply because he did not understand the rules enough, did not read the ToS carefully and thought that his game actions should have a result that was not the same as it turned out.  And such a user usually writes accusations against the casino also in a state of indignation and under the influence of his extremely strong dissatisfaction, usually due to the loss of his money in a particular casino.  Moreover, usually such indignant authors of posts simply do not have any real evidence of their rightness in the dispute with the casino.  
But in a number of cases, the casino is still wrong, but such cases still happen relatively few.

That could only mean we've not been reading the same accusations often because, in my experience, the reverse is the case. As you called 90% of wrong accusations are due to the wrong understanding of the casino's Ts&Cs, I call it 10% if I will be fair, and that 10% are often refuted and the OP is guided by the forum users, as no one will come out to support what the OP is guilty of.

But in my experience, the 90% are always real allegations that have nothing to do with the understanding of the Ts&Cs of the casinos. What I won't do is take sides but always want both parties to have a fair hearing so that a reasonable conclusion can be made. This is also applicable to those who can't prove their claims, when the casino has blocked the account, I wonder how much prove that such a person can furnish. That shouldn't mean they are lying, believing that will equally be an assumption.

On the other hand, if we are talking about casinos that are initially perceived by players as reliable and proven over the years in the market, then the accusations against such casinos are usually not sufficiently substantiated.  I talked about user reviews accusing well-known and large casinos of somehow deceiving the player who is complaining. 
Accusations against fraudulent casinos may of course be fair, this is obvious.  And in this case, the 10/90% ratio will certainly not be fair.  But let’s also take into account that in negative reviews and accusations from users there is often an intent to create a negative image of a particular casino.  And from the practice of such individual opinions, even if they are custom-made, it is clear that this is a fairly strong advertising message. 
Naturally, competitors use such methods of anti-advertising.  And such pre-prepared and paid for, one might say, custom-made versions of accusations against the casino should also be taken into account.

[Fortify]

Currently, there's a pattern. A person makes a new account in BitcoinTalk, makes a topic/accuses a casino of scamming him/her, and because some users need to bump up their post count for their signature campaigns, the topic gets more attention than it should be during a normal situation.

OK, it's understandable that users need to bump up their post count, but we should also be responsible to find the truth, and merely not believing an accusation from a person who literally made a brand new account, nor discussing it with the person like something wrong actually happened. Because actual scammers themselves will take advantage of us.

These accusations have been going on since day one. That's the thing when money is involved, people don't like to lose it, yet the very games they are playing are designed to take it from them. The only way that gamblers feel like they might be able to get revenge against a site for taking their money is often spreading false stories or even blowing an insignificant event out of proportion. There are genuine scam casinos like 1xbit/1xbet who have a long reputation for ripping people off and need to be avoided, however most of the other casinos here are generally quite responsive and help users if they have a genuine problem. Occasionally there are just awkward customers that will never be satisfied and sometimes there are mistakes that even the best casinos will make, it's a very fluid situation.

[Dunamisx]

There are accusations coming in from time to time from this forum and some from other platforms which have never been introduced to this forum before, some of these scam related accusations over the gambling platforms are true while some were not, it all depends on who is bringing in an accusation and whether it is genuine or not, some people are fond of catching fun with unserious matters while some will means business only to rage attack on any platform.

[Mahanton]

Currently, there's a pattern. A person makes a new account in BitcoinTalk, makes a topic/accuses a casino of scamming him/her, and because some users need to bump up their post count for their signature campaigns, the topic gets more attention than it should be during a normal situation.

OK, it's understandable that users need to bump up their post count, but we should also be responsible to find the truth, and merely not believing an accusation from a person who literally made a brand new account, nor discussing it with the person like something wrong actually happened. Because actual scammers themselves will take advantage of us.

These accusations have been going on since day one. That's the thing when money is involved, people don't like to lose it, yet the very games they are playing are designed to take it from them. The only way that gamblers feel like they might be able to get revenge against a site for taking their money is often spreading false stories or even blowing an insignificant event out of proportion. There are genuine scam casinos like 1xbit/1xbet who have a long reputation for ripping people off and need to be avoided, however most of the other casinos here are generally quite responsive and help users if they have a genuine problem. Occasionally there are just awkward customers that will never be satisfied and sometimes there are mistakes that even the best casinos will make, it's a very fluid situation.

If we do tend to look out with those scam accusations thread, then not all people who do make out some post or comments does basically tending to bump up their post count but rather
they are really that giving their viable responsible and insights towards the situation. You would really be seeing that it might be repetitive but its actually that having still the sense on where they
will really be able to see and even ask for some solid proofs about on such accusation because in every complaints or issues been raised then it will really be just that right that there would be sufficient and solid proofs
because once it would be proven out, then it would be surely concluded on which simply means that discussions would be cut off.

As long the issues arent that been that resolved out, then expect the community would really be continuing to post no matter what and will really be keeping up bumping the thread
until it would really be getting up that attention. This forum is the best place when you are really that trying out to look for real time feedbacks and impressions on
any platform on which as long it would be crypto based.

[Kavelj22]

There are accusations coming in from time to time from this forum and some from other platforms which have never been introduced to this forum before, some of these scam related accusations over the gambling platforms are true while some were not, it all depends on who is bringing in an accusation and whether it is genuine or not, some people are fond of catching fun with unserious matters while some will means business only to rage attack on any platform.

I think that for these reasons that you explained, the forum can be considered the best space to deal with these accusations, since most casinos have representation on the forum, and the forum includes the largest crypto-based gambling community. It can easily be seen that all accusations are dealt with literally to show how serious and credible they are, and we have good, reliable, active members in the scam and accusation board.

Of course, not all allegations are valid, because there are those who are quick to make accusations as soon as they are exposed to minor problems that may result from a misunderstanding, and also because some dishonest platforms publish malicious accusations in an attempt to destroy the reputation of their competitors. There are people who provide this type of service, especially since it will only require creating a new account to use it to spread defamatory lies.

[EarnOnVictor]

I even thought it was something so special when I was reading your outburst not knowing it was about replying to newbie posts. Well, I can only tell you guys to cool down and if there is a post that is suspicious or of low quality, why not report such? Don't forget, what you are alleging is still merely suspicious, what if it's not real? If you are asking someone to post evidence and you can't also prove whether the person is genuine or not, what difference are you?

For me, any newbie may post their experience about casinos and they should not be crucified for it, neither are these people replying to it even if they can't offer direct help. So far the post is readable and constructive enough, it has its pass-mark, in my opinion. Also, those who are using new accounts to open threads may have their reasons and we should not always treat such less important. Some may only be readers of Bitcointalk and open a casino account through one of the signature links here. When there is a problem, they might believe Bitcointalk is a place where their voice can be heard, so they may open an account. Some may not necessarily know Bitcointalk beforehand but were just referred here to see if their issue can be solved. Are people not going to websites newly to register their complaints against businesses?

Yeah that makes sense. We shouldn't ignore newbie posts just because of their rank just like that.
Some people find this platform in the process of reviewing a casino and inorder to raise awareness as well.
I guess we need to be diligent enough while reading accusation posts as they deal with someone's reputation.
At the same time, I still believe we should ask them for sufficient evidence to back their accusation against the casino.

My experience of reading posts from newcomers complaining about improper actions on the part of the casino clearly shows that in 90% of cases the newcomer accusing the casino is wrong.  Simply because he did not understand the rules enough, did not read the ToS carefully and thought that his game actions should have a result that was not the same as it turned out.  And such a user usually writes accusations against the casino also in a state of indignation and under the influence of his extremely strong dissatisfaction, usually due to the loss of his money in a particular casino.  Moreover, usually such indignant authors of posts simply do not have any real evidence of their rightness in the dispute with the casino.  
But in a number of cases, the casino is still wrong, but such cases still happen relatively few.

That could only mean we've not been reading the same accusations often because, in my experience, the reverse is the case. As you called 90% of wrong accusations are due to the wrong understanding of the casino's Ts&Cs, I call it 10% if I will be fair, and that 10% are often refuted and the OP is guided by the forum users, as no one will come out to support what the OP is guilty of.

But in my experience, the 90% are always real allegations that have nothing to do with the understanding of the Ts&Cs of the casinos. What I won't do is take sides but always want both parties to have a fair hearing so that a reasonable conclusion can be made. This is also applicable to those who can't prove their claims, when the casino has blocked the account, I wonder how much prove that such a person can furnish. That shouldn't mean they are lying, believing that will equally be an assumption.

On the other hand, if we are talking about casinos that are initially perceived by players as reliable and proven over the years in the market, then the accusations against such casinos are usually not sufficiently substantiated.  I talked about user reviews accusing well-known and large casinos of somehow deceiving the player who is complaining. 
Accusations against fraudulent casinos may of course be fair, this is obvious.  And in this case, the 10/90% ratio will certainly not be fair.  But let’s also take into account that in negative reviews and accusations from users there is often an intent to create a negative image of a particular casino.  And from the practice of such individual opinions, even if they are custom-made, it is clear that this is a fairly strong advertising message. 
Naturally, competitors use such methods of anti-advertising.  And such pre-prepared and paid for, one might say, custom-made versions of accusations against the casino should also be taken into account.

I see, I just understood what you are saying, it seems there was a misunderstanding between the direct accusation of cheating/fraud by individuals and that of a normal review of a casino. However, I've been so particular about reviews and I do not take individual reviews for granted, but the exception is that I read them insightfully and make sure that I average the general claims. For example, if I read 100 reviews, I might welcome just 60 of them as some might have ingenuine underdone, which means that my judgement about that casino will be based on 60% (whether positive or negetive) regardless of how they paint the casino.

I do this because there are also bad actors that are paid by a rival company or just wanted to cause issues due to their ugliness, and because there are casinos that will pay people to spread goodness about them. Irrespective of that, if it's a direct allegation on any casino, I will always be netrual at first with the both party and will never believe a casinos can't do it like many would assume just because they are reputed. I am only open to contructive defence by them.