I've got accused of scamming - Thanks Vod - Suggestion for the future

[SellMaster3000]

Hi there,

Everyone knows this by now, Vod went on a negative trust killing spree. I agree with the fact that selling keys obtained by MSDN is a moral question and in violation with the TOS of Microsoft, but it's not a crime at all.

I openly admit that I sell these keys, everyone knows that by now, but does that make me a scammer? I don't think so. Right now, I've got 2 complaints. This is caused by Human mistakes because I accidentally mixed up some keys. What's the action that follows? Me helping the people by either assisting them or giving them replacement keys. I'm not trying to make myself look better, because I know that what I'm doing is wrong, but I'm doing it in a nice way.

I have two suggestions though. I think people with default trust should be reviewed more often. For example, Vod gave everyone who sells Microsoft keys negative trust because he works for Microsoft. Long story short, he lets his Scambusting job on here being influenced by his personal life. When this happens, you should be suspended from your duty.

The second suggestion is banning everything that is illegal on this forum (or giving everyone negative trust that sells illegal things). Selling hacked Netflix accounts for example might even be a bigger crime than what we are doing. Discrimination is what is happening right now. The Microsoft key sellers are the jews and Vod is the Nazi (Just make clear that this is an example and not meant to offend anyone in any way, unless it's Vod ).

As of right now, there is only one guy that gets it. His name is Tecshare.

Have a nice day,

Jake

[FuckIdolPlus]

Let me tell you one thing. He's a dick

I hope this summarises everything.

[Tomatocage]

Let me tell you one thing. He's a dick

I hope this summarises everything.

Don't blame Vod. You're the one that snitched on SellMaster3000.

[Vod]

Hi there,

Everyone knows this by now, Vod went on a negative trust killing spree. I agree with the fact that selling keys obtained by MSDN is a moral question and in violation with the TOS of Microsoft, but it's not a crime at all.

I openly admit that I sell these keys, everyone knows that by now, but does that make me a scammer? I don't think so. Right now, I've got 2 complaints. This is caused by Human mistakes because I accidentally mixed up some keys. What's the action that follows? Me helping the people by either assisting them or giving them replacement keys. I'm not trying to make myself look better, because I know that what I'm doing is wrong, but I'm doing it in a nice way.

I have two suggestions though. I think people with default trust should be reviewed more often. For example, Vod gave everyone who sells Microsoft keys negative trust because he works for Microsoft. Long story short, he lets his Scambusting job on here being influenced by his personal life. When this happens, you should be suspended from your duty.

The second suggestion is banning everything that is illegal on this forum (or giving everyone negative trust that sells illegal things). Selling hacked Netflix accounts for example might even be a bigger crime than what we are doing. Discrimination is what is happening right now. The Microsoft key sellers are the jews and Vod is the Nazi (Just make clear that this is an example and not meant to offend anyone in any way, unless it's Vod ).

As of right now, there is only one guy that gets it. His name is Tecshare.

Have a nice day,

Jake

Jake - read my signature.  I do remove negative feedback if you are willing to stop selling the MSDN keys.  I offer second chances.

[Quickseller]

I think that since there is a clear conflict of interest with Vod in these cases since he has a financial interest in Microsoft that he should not be giving negative trust for the sole reason that the sellers are selling MSDN keys.

With the exception of fuckidolplus (I think he has pretty much dug his own grave) that Vod should remove the negative trust on all the sellers and then open a scam accusation against them with the reasons why he thinks they deserve negative trust and why he thinks they are scamming. Then anyone else who believes his argument (and not the argument of the people who say negative trust is not appropriate) and is in the default trust network will be free to leave them negative trust.   

[symantec]

Don't blame Vod. You're the one that snitched on SellMaster3000.

Him is working a lack of fairness and transparency in an effort to for the purpose of removing me when I sell the key MS here.

Or Him was the one who sold the key MS here (goal is to compete in the business)

[Vod]

I think that since there is a clear conflict of interest with Vod in these cases since he has a financial interest in Microsoft that he should not be giving negative trust for the sole reason that the sellers are selling MSDN keys.

Everyone who buys a copy of Windows has a financial interest in Microsoft.  You want the product you paid for to keep getting patched, don't you?

In my case, I've invested time and money to become certified.  I don't work for Microsoft - I work with their products.  If Microsoft were to go under, all the money and time I spent would become useless.

[Quickseller]

I think that since there is a clear conflict of interest with Vod in these cases since he has a financial interest in Microsoft that he should not be giving negative trust for the sole reason that the sellers are selling MSDN keys.

Everyone who buys a copy of Windows has a financial interest in Microsoft.  You want the product you paid for to keep getting patched, don't you?

In my case, I've invested time and money to become certified.  I don't work for Microsoft - I work with their products.  If Microsoft were to go under, all the money and time I spent would become useless.

I am actually an Apple person personally.  

IMO Microsoft should take better steps to protect their IP if they don't want people selling MSDN keys like this. I also think their products are generally horribly overpriced and this high price probably factors in a certain level of activity.

Plus it isn't like people can't get around needing to have keys to Microsoft products at all - for example using Google sheets to open an excel spreadsheet

[abyrnes81]

I think that since there is a clear conflict of interest with Vod in these cases since he has a financial interest in Microsoft that he should not be giving negative trust for the sole reason that the sellers are selling MSDN keys.

Everyone who buys a copy of Windows has a financial interest in Microsoft.  You want the product you paid for to keep getting patched, don't you?

In my case, I've invested time and money to become certified.  I don't work for Microsoft - I work with their products.  If Microsoft were to go under, all the money and time I spent would become useless.

I am actually an Apple person personally.   

IMO Microsoft should take better steps to protect their IP if they don't want people selling MSDN keys like this. I also think their products are generally horribly overpriced and this high price probably factors in a certain level of activity.

Plus it isn't like people can get around needing to have keys to Microsoft products at all - for example using Google sheets to open an excel spreadsheet

Hi,

Are you really serious? Apple is more overpriced than microsoft and the second company is more used than the first. So will you give him a negative trust ?

[Quickseller]

I think that since there is a clear conflict of interest with Vod in these cases since he has a financial interest in Microsoft that he should not be giving negative trust for the sole reason that the sellers are selling MSDN keys.

Everyone who buys a copy of Windows has a financial interest in Microsoft.  You want the product you paid for to keep getting patched, don't you?

In my case, I've invested time and money to become certified.  I don't work for Microsoft - I work with their products.  If Microsoft were to go under, all the money and time I spent would become useless.

I am actually an Apple person personally.   

IMO Microsoft should take better steps to protect their IP if they don't want people selling MSDN keys like this. I also think their products are generally horribly overpriced and this high price probably factors in a certain level of activity.

Plus it isn't like people can get around needing to have keys to Microsoft products at all - for example using Google sheets to open an excel spreadsheet

Hi,

Are you really serious? Apple is more overpriced than microsoft and the second company is more used than the first. So will you give him a negative trust ?

Microsoft doesn't sell hardware (they sell phones but that is not what I am talking about). If you buy an apple computer then you will get the operating system and their equivalent to ms office suite for free (it might cost something but it is a lot less then office). You also generally can upgrade your OS when a new one is released without having to pay verses having to buy a license to upgrade to the newest version of windows/office when a new one comes out.

I don't think there is a victim here. You could say that Microsoft is the victim but they need to do a better job of protecting themselves. If/when the keys they sell are invalidated, the products will generally still work provided they are not checking for automatic updates (this should be an easy fix). Plus chances are their customers can afford to get "scammed" multiple times throughout the product life cycle before they would have spent more money on keys verses what they would have paid Microsoft.

I am not advocating that people either buy or sell these keys (I think it would probably actually be best not to trade these keys- but I am not anyone's father on here and cannot make this decision for other people) however I don't think they are scamming.

[tspacepilot]

I think that since there is a clear conflict of interest with Vod in these cases since he has a financial interest in Microsoft that he should not be giving negative trust for the sole reason that the sellers are selling MSDN keys.

Everyone who buys a copy of Windows has a financial interest in Microsoft.  You want the product you paid for to keep getting patched, don't you?

In my case, I've invested time and money to become certified.  I don't work for Microsoft - I work with their products.  If Microsoft were to go under, all the money and time I spent would become useless.

It does seem a bridge to far to me that you've decided that since you value the IP of a particular company that you're going to neg-rep anyone who does anything in violation of that IP.  I'm not saying you don't have a right in general to put negative trust on people, but given your status in default trust, I think you should reconsider what actually deserves to be neg-repped.

Imagine if Microsoft comes out with something like google-wallet or apple-pay and then becomes a direct competitor of bitcoin.  Perhaps at some point Microsoft lobbies congress of USA to pass laws to prohibit usage of bitcoin in order to promote their own objectives.  Would you then decide that Microsoft's opinion is what should dictate who and who isn't neg-repped on this forum?

Another example, ASCAP, the trade group for music and arts publishers, would have us believe that any media file which doesn't contain DRM is prirated.  This is not actually the case but if ASCAP gets its way, eventually laws will be passed to regulate all DRM-free media.  If someone appeared on this forum and began selling DRM-free music (and doing so successfully, not scamming but actually going through with sales as advertized), would you decide that because ASCAP doesn't like this behavior and has lobbied to create laws to restrict it that the person selling DRM-free music should be neg-repped "trade with extreme caution".

Or, consider the OP's suggestion, perhaps if you go this route you need to be consistent and make sure to neg-rep anyone selling anything which might have questionable IP status.  I think the more sane route is for you to stay out of the copyright enforcement business and focus on actual scams in which someone doesn't provide the service they purport to.

In my opinion, as someone on default trust who does a lot of work "scambusting" you need to consider carefully what counts as a scam.  It's seems quite clear to me that selling microsoft accounts, if they are actually selling them, is not scamming.  It may be dishonest in your opinion, but if they are providing the service they advertize to provide then how are they "scamming"?

Perhaps another option would be to represent yourself more openly.  Change your username to "microsoft intellectual property patrol" and see if Theymos leaves you default trust.  

I think that since there is a clear conflict of interest with Vod in these cases since he has a financial interest in Microsoft that he should not be giving negative trust for the sole reason that the sellers are selling MSDN keys.

Everyone who buys a copy of Windows has a financial interest in Microsoft.  You want the product you paid for to keep getting patched, don't you?

In my case, I've invested time and money to become certified.  I don't work for Microsoft - I work with their products.  If Microsoft were to go under, all the money and time I spent would become useless.

This is the sad state of affairs that RMS predicted a long time ago.  You've given away your own freedom in exchange for the hope that someone else can manage that for you.  Too bad you're not interested in learning about free/libre open-source software that doesn't die just because a company does.  Real software is owned by the community of users and lives as long as that community exists (eg: bitcoin!), not according to the vagaries of a capitalist market.

[tidus1097]

I think that since there is a clear conflict of interest with Vod in these cases since he has a financial interest in Microsoft that he should not be giving negative trust for the sole reason that the sellers are selling MSDN keys.

Everyone who buys a copy of Windows has a financial interest in Microsoft.  You want the product you paid for to keep getting patched, don't you?

In my case, I've invested time and money to become certified.  I don't work for Microsoft - I work with their products.  If Microsoft were to go under, all the money and time I spent would become useless.

In my opinion this right here is a conflict of the trust system. He quoted that he invested time and money to become certified to work with their products and that if they collapse then all his effort would have been in vain. Now he having said that, that is stating that he did post the -trust because it could at some point help hinder his previous efforts of making money with Microsoft products. I believe now with seeing this statements that he did this with intentions of harming the people getting rid of the MSDN Keys. While it is not against forum rules to sell them, he's put in a position that he can either help or hurt the people getting rid of them. He can not know that if the people getting rid of the keys are stolen or anything to that effect. He also does not know if the people getting rid of the keys will refund the people that purchased them if the key becomes invalid. Since he is doing this to somewhat protect his investment, he is still under a certain obligation by forum rules NOT to abuse the trust system, which by his own statement I feel does. This is just a personal opinion I am intitled to, and have never met, talked, had buisness with on this account or any other for that matter. So I have no bias judgement to pass along other than what I see here. As stated this is just one persons opinion.

[funtotry]

His personal life and bias over microsoft should not get in the way. I agree with vod on most things but this is just bias. People should be allowed to sell things, and if they aren't stealing money or scamming they should not be left neg trust.

[erikalui]

Bitcoins also are illegal to use and are considered to be used for money laundering purposes. So in that sense, all the users here should get negative trust  

I don't know how many similar threads are going to come up as I have seen numerous threads in the Scam Accusation section as well.

[abyrnes81]

Bitcoins also are illegal to use and are considered to be used for money laundering purposes. So in that sense, all the users here should get negative trust  

I don't know how many similar threads are going to come up as I have seen numerous threads in the Scam Accusation section as well.

Not necessary, in some country bitcoin "laundering" is not illegal instead they are trying to regulate it (but it's not so simply).

[SellMaster3000]

I think that since there is a clear conflict of interest with Vod in these cases since he has a financial interest in Microsoft that he should not be giving negative trust for the sole reason that the sellers are selling MSDN keys.

Everyone who buys a copy of Windows has a financial interest in Microsoft.  You want the product you paid for to keep getting patched, don't you?

In my case, I've invested time and money to become certified.  I don't work for Microsoft - I work with their products.  If Microsoft were to go under, all the money and time I spent would become useless.

Alright, I agree with you on this one. Although we are not stealing a product (like downloading a movie), we are taking away their profit. I agree with the fact that Microsoft gives us 10 years of support per OS and a lot of years for Office.

I'm asking you one thing though. What do you think about selling Xbox Live Gold?

I'll think of you're offer of stopping the Microsoft key selling business and start something else. Just give me some time.

[Vod]

I'm asking you one thing though. What do you think about selling Xbox Live Gold?

If you can prove you obtained it via non-fraudulent means, then I have no problem with you selling anything. 

But the fact is most of the Xbox codes are purchased using stolen credit cards, and eventually become deactivated.

[SellMaster3000]

I'm asking you one thing though. What do you think about selling Xbox Live Gold?

If you can prove you obtained it via non-fraudulent means, then I have no problem with you selling anything. 

But the fact is most of the Xbox codes are purchased using stolen credit cards, and eventually become deactivated.

I didn't know that, about the stolen credit cards.

I was mad at you first man, but in one way, you opened my eyes.

[Vod]

I'm asking you one thing though. What do you think about selling Xbox Live Gold?

If you can prove you obtained it via non-fraudulent means, then I have no problem with you selling anything. 

But the fact is most of the Xbox codes are purchased using stolen credit cards, and eventually become deactivated.

I didn't know that, about the stolen credit cards.

I was mad at you first man, but in one way, you opened my eyes.

Glad to hear it.  Just please stop selling MSDN keys immediately, so I can remove the negative trust in the future. 

[SellMaster3000]

I'm asking you one thing though. What do you think about selling Xbox Live Gold?

If you can prove you obtained it via non-fraudulent means, then I have no problem with you selling anything. 

But the fact is most of the Xbox codes are purchased using stolen credit cards, and eventually become deactivated.

I didn't know that, about the stolen credit cards.

I was mad at you first man, but in one way, you opened my eyes.

Glad to hear it.  Just please stop selling MSDN keys immediately, so I can remove the negative trust in the future. 

Going to bed now, I'll update my thread tomorrow.