I've got accused of scamming - Thanks Vod - Suggestion for the future

[tspacepilot]

I'm asking you one thing though. What do you think about selling Xbox Live Gold?

If you can prove you obtained it via non-fraudulent means, then I have no problem with you selling anything. 

But the fact is most of the Xbox codes are purchased using stolen credit cards, and eventually become deactivated.

I didn't know that, about the stolen credit cards.

I was mad at you first man, but in one way, you opened my eyes.

Glad to hear it.  Just please stop selling MSDN keys immediately, so I can remove the negative trust in the future. 

What about the larger issues raised in this thread?  You're pretty committed to remaining the Microsoft Intellectual Property Division of this forum, it would seem.  Who is going to represent other, non-bitcoin affiliated companies and interests?  Why does MSCorp get a seat on Default Trust but Apple, ASCAP, Netflix, etc do not?

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[funtotry]

I'm asking you one thing though. What do you think about selling Xbox Live Gold?

If you can prove you obtained it via non-fraudulent means, then I have no problem with you selling anything. 

But the fact is most of the Xbox codes are purchased using stolen credit cards, and eventually become deactivated.

I didn't know that, about the stolen credit cards.

I was mad at you first man, but in one way, you opened my eyes.

Glad to hear it.  Just please stop selling MSDN keys immediately, so I can remove the negative trust in the future. 

What about the larger issues raised in this thread?  You're pretty committed to remaining the Microsoft Intellectual Property Division of this forum, it would seem.  Who is going to represent other, non-bitcoin affiliated companies and interests?  Why does MSCorp get a seat on Default Trust but Apple, ASCAP, Netflix, etc do not?

^ +1
Exactly, personal bias should not be affecting the forum's trust system. If you make people stop selling MSDN keys immediately, every single other key has to be stopped as well, its only fair. Just because of personal bias you can't call a person a scammer and someone else not a scammer even though they are doing the same thing

[Vod]

I'm asking you one thing though. What do you think about selling Xbox Live Gold?

If you can prove you obtained it via non-fraudulent means, then I have no problem with you selling anything. 

But the fact is most of the Xbox codes are purchased using stolen credit cards, and eventually become deactivated.

I didn't know that, about the stolen credit cards.

I was mad at you first man, but in one way, you opened my eyes.

Glad to hear it.  Just please stop selling MSDN keys immediately, so I can remove the negative trust in the future. 

What about the larger issues raised in this thread?  You're pretty committed to remaining the Microsoft Intellectual Property Division of this forum, it would seem.  Who is going to represent other, non-bitcoin affiliated companies and interests?  Why does MSCorp get a seat on Default Trust but Apple, ASCAP, Netflix, etc do not?

Maybe some other trusted members who have vested interests in one of those technologies can step forward?  I can't do all the work...  

[funtotry]

I'm asking you one thing though. What do you think about selling Xbox Live Gold?

If you can prove you obtained it via non-fraudulent means, then I have no problem with you selling anything. 

But the fact is most of the Xbox codes are purchased using stolen credit cards, and eventually become deactivated.

I didn't know that, about the stolen credit cards.

I was mad at you first man, but in one way, you opened my eyes.

Glad to hear it.  Just please stop selling MSDN keys immediately, so I can remove the negative trust in the future. 

What about the larger issues raised in this thread?  You're pretty committed to remaining the Microsoft Intellectual Property Division of this forum, it would seem.  Who is going to represent other, non-bitcoin affiliated companies and interests?  Why does MSCorp get a seat on Default Trust but Apple, ASCAP, Netflix, etc do not?

Maybe some other trusted members who have vested interests in one of those technologies can step forward?  I can't do all the work...  

Vod on all other issuesr I side with you but just drop it, hes not doing anything wrong, and you shouldn't be selectively calling out some people doing something you don't agree with, but is not against the rules of the forum so I don't think you should be able to call them a scammer.

[Vod]

Vod on all other issuesr I side with you but just drop it, hes not doing anything wrong, and you shouldn't be selectively calling out some people doing something you don't agree with, but is not against the rules of the forum so I don't think you should be able to call them a scammer.

He is selling stolen product keys, taking them away from the rightful owner.

Despite what you guys think, you don't get an unlimited amount of keys.  There is a limit on each account.  It's not fair for the owner to go online and find out he has no more Windows keys left because a thief stole them all.

If you don't agree with this, we'll just have to live with that.   

[worhiper_-_]

Vod on all other issuesr I side with you but just drop it, hes not doing anything wrong, and you shouldn't be selectively calling out some people doing something you don't agree with, but is not against the rules of the forum so I don't think you should be able to call them a scammer.

He is selling stolen product keys, taking them away from the rightful owner.

Despite what you guys think, you don't get an unlimited amount of keys.  There is a limit on each account.  It's not fair for the owner to go online and find out he has no more Windows keys left because a thief stole them all.

If you don't agree with this, we'll just have to live with that.   

Weren't you saying it's illegal to sell those keys because it's against microsoft's ToS a day or so ago? Now you're talking about stolen CCs and hackers... 

[funtotry]

Vod on all other issuesr I side with you but just drop it, hes not doing anything wrong, and you shouldn't be selectively calling out some people doing something you don't agree with, but is not against the rules of the forum so I don't think you should be able to call them a scammer.

He is selling stolen product keys, taking them away from the rightful owner.

Despite what you guys think, you don't get an unlimited amount of keys.  There is a limit on each account.  It's not fair for the owner to go online and find out he has no more Windows keys left because a thief stole them all.

If you don't agree with this, we'll just have to live with that.   

Are you sure they are stolen? Many starbucks cards, netflix coder, all that is priced much less than retail, but are those all stolen too? If you can PROVE that they are stolen then yes he is in the wrong but even then he is still allowed to sell thim.

[Vod]

Weren't you saying it's illegal to sell those keys because it's against microsoft's ToS a day or so ago? Now you're talking about stolen CCs and hackers... 

I think you are confusing my posts with someone else.

But, it IS against Microsoft's TOS to sell keys.  These scammers don't care - the accounts are stolen.

[tspacepilot]

Vod on all other issuesr I side with you but just drop it, hes not doing anything wrong, and you shouldn't be selectively calling out some people doing something you don't agree with, but is not against the rules of the forum so I don't think you should be able to call them a scammer.

He is selling stolen product keys, taking them away from the rightful owner.

Despite what you guys think, you don't get an unlimited amount of keys.  There is a limit on each account.  It's not fair for the owner to go online and find out he has no more Windows keys left because a thief stole them all.

If you don't agree with this, we'll just have to live with that.   

What's hard to accept is that your own love for the future of MSCORP is interacting with how you rate the reliability of someone on this forum.   And because you're sitting in a unique (or almost unique) position where your opinions are included by default for all users who don't remove them this means that MSCORP is deciding who and who isn't reliable to trade with on bitcointalk.org.

Don't you think you ought to focus on the actual scammers who aren't representing themselves honestly?  If this guy is honestly providing the service he says he provides, how is this a scam?

I'm surprised that you don't see how problematic this is.

[worhiper_-_]

Negative trust rating Vod left:

This user is selling Microsoft product keys they get from MSDN subscriptions. This is not allowed. Microsoft does not sell product keys without Certificate of Authenticity.

All it will take is a single person to report his illegal purchase of a Microsoft key (even someone who intentionally buys just to report), then Microsoft can trace it back to the original MSDN subscription that generated that key.

ALL keys generated from that MSDN account will then become invalidated (i.e. stop working) and Skyenet will NOT give you your money back.

This is a scam. Do not purchase keys from this account!

Why are you suddenly bringing hacking and stolen CCs into this? You know that this is something you can't prove right? Your initial claim sounded more reasonable, are you trying to make this sound worse now?

[funtotry]

Vod on all other issuesr I side with you but just drop it, hes not doing anything wrong, and you shouldn't be selectively calling out some people doing something you don't agree with, but is not against the rules of the forum so I don't think you should be able to call them a scammer.

He is selling stolen product keys, taking them away from the rightful owner.

Despite what you guys think, you don't get an unlimited amount of keys.  There is a limit on each account.  It's not fair for the owner to go online and find out he has no more Windows keys left because a thief stole them all.

If you don't agree with this, we'll just have to live with that.   

What's hard to accept is that your own love for the future of MSCORP is interacting with how you rate the reliability of someone on this forum.   And because you're sitting in a unique (or almost unique) position where your opinions are included by default for all users who don't remove them this means that MSCORP is deciding who and who isn't reliable to trade with on bitcointalk.org.

Don't you think you ought to focus on the actual scammers who aren't representing themselves honestly?  If this guy is honestly providing the service he says he provides, how is this a scam?

I'm surprised that you don't see how problematic this is.

Yes. This forum is not meant for people representing companies picking out select deals that are against their own company. Also this forum is extremely small and some guy selling a couple keys is not going to hurt the multi billion dollar company that is microsoft.
The key seller is not actually scamming everyone, why don't you not waste time with this kind of thing and look more at the ACTUAL scammers.

[Vod]

If this guy is honestly providing the service he says he provides, how is this a scam?

You mean if the thief is honestly providing the service he says, right?  Theft is a scam.

[tspacepilot]

If this guy is honestly providing the service he says he provides, how is this a scam?

You mean if the thief is honestly providing the service he says, right?  Theft is a scam.

I understand that you consider protection of MSCORP intellectual property to be a top priority in righting the wrongs of the world.  However, believe it or not, there are those who believe that installing MSCORP software on your computer is a scam.  That MSCORP is stealing your personal information and freedom.  If I were to apply this criterion in deciding who to trade bitcoins with, I'd have to mark you as a scammer.  However, hopefully we can both see that just because you decide to support MSCORP in stealing from others doesn't mean that you won't pay back a loan or come through on a trade.

I think it's pretty darn clear that this guy's opinions about MSCORP are pretty irrelevant to trust on bitcointalk.org.  Again, it's not clear why you aren't willing to set aside your personal love for a particular multi-billion dollar corporation in this context.  I'm surprised you can't see how unhelpful it is to concentrate on one controversial side-issue rather than on actual tangible scams in which someone is misrepresenting themself or the services they provide.

[Lauda]

Looks like we need to suggest theymos to add a sub-forum labeled Vod. These threads keep pilling up. People are starting to become nuisances. You aren't doing anything wrong. You're even offering second chances (which is something that is rare these days).

I understand that you consider protection of MSCORP intellectual property to be a top priority in righting the wrongs of the world.  However, believe it or not, there are those who believe that installing MSCORP software on your computer is a scam. 

They can believe that Unicorns live on the Alps. That won't make it true.

[tspacepilot]

Looks like we need to suggest theymos to add a sub-forum labeled Vod. These threads keep pilling up. People are starting to become nuisances. You aren't doing anything wrong. You're even offering second chances (which is something that is rare these days).

I understand that you consider protection of MSCORP intellectual property to be a top priority in righting the wrongs of the world.  However, believe it or not, there are those who believe that installing MSCORP software on your computer is a scam. 

They can believe that Unicorns live on the Alps. That won't make it true.

Great, that's a helpful analogy.  We could sit around arguing about whether MSCORP is evil and whether or not attacking them is in the name of Justice.  Or, what I suggest, and the reason I brought up the above, is that this argument is tangential to whether or not someone is trustworthy to make a bitcoin deal with.  And that if Vod can see that, then, perhaps he will work on something more productive (and less devisive and distracting) than enforcing MSCORP trade policy on default trust.

[tidus1097]

If this guy is honestly providing the service he says he provides, how is this a scam?

You mean if the thief is honestly providing the service he says, right?  Theft is a scam.

I understand that you consider protection of MSCORP intellectual property to be a top priority in righting the wrongs of the world.  However, believe it or not, there are those who believe that installing MSCORP software on your computer is a scam.  That MSCORP is stealing your personal information and freedom.  If I were to apply this criterion in deciding who to trade bitcoins with, I'd have to mark you as a scammer.  However, hopefully we can both see that just because you decide to support MSCORP in stealing from others doesn't mean that you won't pay back a loan or come through on a trade.

I think it's pretty darn clear that this guy's opinions about MSCORP are pretty irrelevant to trust on bitcointalk.org.  Again, it's not clear why you aren't willing to set aside your personal love for a particular multi-billion dollar corporation in this context.  I'm surprised you can't see how unhelpful it is to concentrate on one controversial side-issue rather than on actual tangible scams in which someone is misrepresenting themself or the services they provide.

This is where he abused the trust system in place. If he had not been in default trust, then nothing he did would have been wrong. He could have -trust anybody he felt like and probably never received any remarks other than the ones he left them on. But since he decided to add -trust while on the default trust list for personal gain is unacceptable. If you are held in higher regard in matters, then you have to hold yourself to these standards whether you like them or not.

[tspacepilot]

If this guy is honestly providing the service he says he provides, how is this a scam?

You mean if the thief is honestly providing the service he says, right?  Theft is a scam.

I understand that you consider protection of MSCORP intellectual property to be a top priority in righting the wrongs of the world.  However, believe it or not, there are those who believe that installing MSCORP software on your computer is a scam.  That MSCORP is stealing your personal information and freedom.  If I were to apply this criterion in deciding who to trade bitcoins with, I'd have to mark you as a scammer.  However, hopefully we can both see that just because you decide to support MSCORP in stealing from others doesn't mean that you won't pay back a loan or come through on a trade.

I think it's pretty darn clear that this guy's opinions about MSCORP are pretty irrelevant to trust on bitcointalk.org.  Again, it's not clear why you aren't willing to set aside your personal love for a particular multi-billion dollar corporation in this context.  I'm surprised you can't see how unhelpful it is to concentrate on one controversial side-issue rather than on actual tangible scams in which someone is misrepresenting themself or the services they provide.

This is where he abused the trust system in place. If he had not been in default trust, then nothing he did would have been wrong. He could have -trust anybody he felt like and probably never received any remarks other than the ones he left them on. But since he decided to add -trust while on the default trust list for personal gain is unacceptable. If you are held in higher regard in matters, then you have to hold yourself to these standards whether you like them or not.

I guess I agree with you here more or less.  It seems like I'm not going to be convincing Vod that MSCORP motivations are irrelevant to trading bitcoins so I've added "~Vod" to my trust settings and I guess I'm just going to go on with my life.  I agree that it does seem like a shame that he can't seem to differentiate between goals MSCORP and the goals of the bitcoin community.

[Vod]

But since he decided to add -trust while on the default trust list for personal gain is unacceptable.

I gained nothing personal with what I did....

Sorry guys, I've already explained how this is a scam many times, but I guess we don't see eye to eye.

I'm going to do what tspacepilot is doing, and just move on.

[tidus1097]

But since he decided to add -trust while on the default trust list for personal gain is unacceptable.

I gained nothing personal with what I did....

Sorry guys, I've already explained how this is a scam many times, but I guess we don't see eye to eye.

I'm going to do what tspacepilot is doing, and just move on.

I am in agreement with this. All of us have opinions. We each have day to day lives. I wish everyone the best. GL with each of our endeavours and Happy Bitcoining

[Armis]

I created PICISI, Vod accused me of scamming, then proceeded to create multiple accounts to appear to be PICISI to misrepresent both me and PICISI:

Oh and the nonsense didn't stop there,
 - creating a fake "official PICISI" accounts  - no longer is use.  Determined it was too close to your PICISI username to be ethical to use
 - creating a fake "offical PICISI" account  - no longer is use.  Determined it was too close to your PICISI username to be ethical to use
 - creating a PICSIS account (see spelling) - can't find this username, but it wasn't created by me.
 - creating a pickissy account - the official account used by the official PICISI site.  The only account legally authorized to speak on behalf of the website.

You forgot this one:

- creating a fake "Armis_" account- not created my me.  Probably created by Armis to make me look bad.  I have left the "Armis_" account negative trust.  Feel free to let me know if you find any others.

I'm too honest and ethical to create fake accounts to try and steal donations - and the Administrators of the site can see this.

The only account that is used is Pickissy - the one that actually represents the official PICISI project.  The official PICISI site does not ask for donations.  Ignore any other user names presented to you by a known scammer.

You created fake accounts then later 'determine' that it was unethical then closed them.   But some how you could not see how unethical it was while you were thinking about it?

It was unethical when you thought about, that was the time to remove it, but you failed to,
it was unethical when you started the process, that was the 2nd time your conscious told you to reconsider, but you dismissed it,
it was unethical when you agreed to the terms of the site that essentially said operate by the golden rule, but you refused,
it was unethical when you used it to access the site, with that username but by this time there was no more good in you to stand for righteousness,
it was unethical when you used it to create an entry, and by this time your heart had to be beating faster because you knew or should have known that your wrong would be found out.
it was unethical when you allowed it to remain as long as you did. this is when other probably told you: "what are you doing?"  "Stop that", "take it down", "you're going to regret that", "I don't think you should do that", "that's going to be a problem for you",  "be careful with that I'm not sure if anyone is going to have your back on that" ... and only then was it "determined" that it was unethical.

and it wasn't for only one fake account, or two phony accounts, it was for at least THREE FRAUDULENT REPRESENTATIONS that you identified as unethical.  But it doesn't end there, you still created other accounts for the sole purpose of misrepresenting yourself as someone authorized to represent PICISI.  And have the audacity to claim that because the start-up hasn't started that you have the right to freely abuse and mistreat it. What are you some corporate abortionist?  

Then, after all of that you actually call yourself "honest and ethical" even after admitting to mass unethical behavior-- how pathological is that?


[/quote]


He still maintains accounts and is still using them to misrepresent me.   How is that not unethical, how is that not scammy, how is that not wrong on so many levels especially for a purported scam buster.