Bitseed - Run a full bitcoin node device!

[knight22]

With the blockchain nearing 30G it's a great way to contribute to the network.

[The00Dustin]

So what happens as the protocol changes?  Seems to me we end up in one or more of these positions:

• These units continue to support the old rules, and the more of them there are, the more likely they are to disrupt the network
• These units require the users to make a decision and download an update, and the more of them there are, the more likely there are to be enough of them not updated to disrupt the network if users think they can set it and forget it
• These units are automatically updated and therefore effectively controlled by Ubuntu (or some other centralized entity who takes over said control legitimately or otherwise) who suddenly gains say over future protocol changes as adoption increases

None of these positions seem incredibly good to me, especially since Ubuntu's bitcoin core distribution has been different than others more than once due to changes being submitted by one highly-opinionated sometimes holier-than-thou pool operator.

Those are all protocol/security concerns that point out more nodes isn't necessarily better.  There may also be technical concerns, for instance, how long it will really be before they become paper weights due to storage constraints or other problems if they aren't upgradeable / user serviceable, because 160GiB may sound like a lot, but who is to say what the block limit and/or block usage will be two years from now?  Presumably they are upgradeable and user serviceable, but suddenly they're that much more expensive and users have to have that much more knowledge to transfer data from one HD to another unless Ubuntu runs on the flash and will automatically partition and make use of a newly replaced drive.

Don't get me wrong, it's certainly a potentially useful device for power users who know Linux if it's fully user-controllable, but I'd disagree with anyone stating that it's a great way for Joe-Schmoe to contribute to the network.

[Lorenzo]

So what happens as the protocol changes?  Seems to me we end up in one or more of these positions:

• These units continue to support the old rules, and the more of them there are, the more likely they are to disrupt the network
• These units require the users to make a decision and download an update, and the more of them there are, the more likely there are to be enough of them not updated to disrupt the network if users think they can set it and forget it
• These units are automatically updated and therefore effectively controlled by Ubuntu (or some other centralized entity who takes over said control legitimately or otherwise) who suddenly gains say over future protocol changes as adoption increases

None of these positions seem incredibly good to me, especially since Ubuntu's bitcoin core distribution has been different than others more than once due to changes being submitted by one highly-opinionated sometimes holier-than-thou pool operator.

According to their official description, it runs the official Bitcoin Core open source client so I would assume that it would be possible to update it just like any other installation of Bitcoin Core in the event of a hard fork. If you're feeling extra paranoid, you could download the source files and compile them manually yourself.

Those are all protocol/security concerns that point out more nodes isn't necessarily better.  There may also be technical concerns, for instance, how long it will really be before they become paper weights due to storage constraints or other problems if they aren't upgradeable / user serviceable, because 160GiB may sound like a lot, but who is to say what the block limit and/or block usage will be two years from now?  Presumably they are upgradeable and user serviceable, but suddenly they're that much more expensive and users have to have that much more knowledge to transfer data from one HD to another unless Ubuntu runs on the flash and will automatically partition and make use of a newly replaced drive.

The hard drive is probably just your standard SATA affair. If the blockchain suddenly balloons in size then it should be possible to swap it out for a larger part. Creating a disk image of a hard drive is a pretty trivial process.

Don't get me wrong, it's certainly a potentially useful device for power users who know Linux if it's fully user-controllable, but I'd disagree with anyone stating that it's a great way for Joe-Schmoe to contribute to the network.

The hardware is based on the PcDuino3Nano which seems to be an Arduino clone:

http://www.linksprite.com/wiki/index.php5?title=PcDuino3Nano

The Raspberry Pi is a pretty popular choice for something like this although the fact that it uses a SD card for storage doesn't make it a completely ideal solution. This one's a bit more expensive but all the work is already done for you. If you wanted to, you could also make your own low-power full node by buying a single board computer, adding storage and networking, installing a lightweight Linux distro, and running Bitcoin Core on it. The end result would be pretty much the same thing.

[The00Dustin]

According to their official description, it runs the official Bitcoin Core open source client so I would assume that it would be possible to update it just like any other installation of Bitcoin Core in the event of a hard fork. If you're feeling extra paranoid, you could download the source files and compile them manually yourself.

I agree completely, but my point is that advice is only good for a savvy tinkerer, not an amateur that wants to support the network via a set it and forget it device.  The advertising may not have meant to imply that this device could be used for that purpose, but I felt that it was insinuated.  The concerns I post revolve around the potential for mass adoption by set it and forget it type individuals to "support the network" because the end result could actually detrimental to the network if not duplicated in an outright malicious by the next vendor to advertise this way.

[LiteCoinGuy]

very good product, like it 

maybe ill buy one in 2015!

[mitus-2]

good idea but it's still too expensive.....150 USD is too much IMHO

[R2D221]

Don't get me wrong, it's certainly a potentially useful device for power users who know Linux if it's fully user-controllable, but I'd disagree with anyone stating that it's a great way for Joe-Schmoe to contribute to the network.

Yeah, but who's stating that average Joe will be using these things? The fact that somebody would like to support the Bitcoin network already means they are a Bitcoin fanatic, and therefore will know at least the basics of what owning this device implies.

[lucasjkr]

I understand how mining supports the network. Each device hashing away incrementally adds to the total number of hashes executed per second.

But how does a node such as this support the network. Especially when it runs on such underpowered hardware?

[Mellnik]

The Bitcoin Core can only connect to 8 nodes without portforwarding right?

So does this device demands the Bitcoin network rather than contributing to it?

[Lauda]

Nice scam! This pile of shit is basically a Raspberry Pi in a stupid looking case.
For $150 I can buy 3 Raspberry Pi + 3 microSD.

The price ($150) clearly shows that this company is just looking to rip off some clueless people.

It is a neat idea and some people pay for monthly computers online to run full nodes and if they're looking for the easiest solution it is probably this.

Exactly. You might know how to use a Raspberry Pi while others might not. You can't expect everyone to know. There are people who aren't tech savy but want to contribute, this might be for them.

The Bitcoin Core can only connect to 8 nodes without portforwarding right?

So does this device demands the Bitcoin network rather than contributing to it?

I'm not sure, it's possible. Even in that case, just portforward on your router and you're good to go.

Have they released any more specifications in regards to the device internals?

[knight22]

Here some additional info someone wrote from the reddit post:

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/305rt4/the_bitseed_personal_server_is_a_standalone/cppp182

Hi everyone, I am working with the team that developed these units. We are happily surprised by the attention this is getting from the /r/bitcoin community, thanks to everyone for the great feedback. As you can probably tell by our incomplete website, we're not 100% ready for prime-time, but we're working overtime to get everything up-to-date.
To answer some of the common questions:

1. Do you accept bitcoin?

Yes! There are links on the product page to BitPay checkouts for both U.S. and International orders. We are currently working on a more seamless integration into the checkout system, it's just taking longer than expected.

2. Who is this for?

Right now, this is great for people who either develop bitcoin applications and want to have access to their own full node, or people who just want to support the network.

3. Do you have instructions?

While the unit is "plug and play," meaning that if you plug it into a power outlet and your router, it should work automatically, we are also including instructions with each unit that cover some edge cases that might cause people issues. Also included will be instructions for getting the device to work with the Bitnodes Incentive Program (though we do not have the manpower to provide support for every edge case there, as that program does add some complexity).

4. Can I build from source?

How do I update? This box is just a generic Linux server with some custom scripts to automate the provisioning of bitcoind. You are welcome to uninstall what's on it and install whatever you want, at your own risk of course. As far as updating goes, the plan is to build a new bitcoind binary for major updates. Users will just replace the old bitcoind & run the new binary. We're open to suggestions for how this can be improved.

5. What about people who are scared of the command line? Anything for the muggles?

I am one of those people, and while this unit is very straightforward to use on the command-line, we also understand that a nice GUI goes a long way. We're going to be doing a crowdfunding campaign for the next-gen version of the box that will have a more attractive case as well as a Web UI for local or remote administration. Follow us on Twitter @BitseedOrg or stay tuned here on /r/bitcoin for our crowdfunding announcement.
If anyone has any other questions or feedback, feel free to DM me here.
Cheers!

[R2D221]

I understand how mining supports the network. Each device hashing away incrementally adds to the total number of hashes executed per second.

But how does a node such as this support the network. Especially when it runs on such underpowered hardware?

It supports the network by storing and broadcasting the blockchain, making it even more difficult for it to be tampered or lost.

[chek2fire]

for a 24/7 bitcoin node is very interest product. The price is not too high

[ajareselde]

There is no doubt ebout it, bitcoin infrastructure is taking a next step forward, and in the right direction, this reminds me when asics came to the market, but im just interested to see how many
people are going to buy nodes when there is no profit to be made from them , xcapt maybe reselling them in hope to make some profit there.
Bitcoin became interesting to many people soley for profits, many of users are not interested in helping out the network, but i must say i like the idea, there really has to be a progress made on
the nodes, current modes is simply too slow for the overwhelming demand.

cheers

[lucasjkr]

Supposing the blockchain is 30-ish GB; how many copies of the blockchain are in existence, and need to be in existance, in order to make sure the transactions in the block chain are secure? Is this the most redundant system ever built?

[Karartma1]

It looks pretty neat! I would like to buy one since I always wanted to have a full node.

good idea but it's still too expensive.....150 USD is too much IMHO

I don't think 150$ is too expensive if you don't live in a 3rd world country. It's reasonable amount to have a plug-n-play full node. Definitely worth it!

[R2D221]

Supposing the blockchain is 30-ish GB; how many copies of the blockchain are in existence, and need to be in existance, in order to make sure the transactions in the block chain are secure?

I don't know. I personally think the current nodes are more than enough, but I don't have any basis for that claim.

Is this the most redundant system ever built?

Yes, I believe so. Or at least it aims to be.

[lassdas]

Supposing the blockchain is 30-ish GB; how many copies of the blockchain are in existence, and need to be in existance, in order to make sure the transactions in the block chain are secure?

I don't know. I personally think the current nodes are more than enough, but I don't have any basis for that claim.

You really think <7000 nodes is more than enough?

I don't.
The more, the better.
With a couple of million users we should see some more than just a couple of thousand full nodes.

Sad enough that there's only one single entity (that i know of), which is BitNodes, creating an incentive for people to run full-nodes.
Hopefully others will follow that example and create (donation supported) full node incentive lotteries like that.

[MusX]

Do you have ETA for the newer version?
How can public ip address or private (via NAT) ip can affects the device?
Are there any security concerns if running it on public ip?

[doof]

Dam it!  I've been working on a similar project, which i was calling the 10,000 node project.  www.10000nodes.com

Been interested in seeing how this product does.