Anything sustainable worth of investing?

[Phildo]

the bottom for a coin is 0. Why on earth would you think that anything but that is the bottom? What is going to stop the other people who are staking the coin from selling them to cash out and further crash the price?

[1714661916]

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[1714661916]

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[1714661916]

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[Patatas]

i think there are no "sustainable" investments epecially with bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies
there's always a risk

[Possum577]

Hey guys,

I post these questions a lot recently on different forums but I ve not been able to receive a satisfactory answer. Has BTC economy really turned into a sea of ponzies and scam?
Is there ANYTHING worth of investing these days? Anything which might provide sustainable dividend, regardless of how low it might be?

Pls do not post cryptodublers, pyramid schemes, 5% per day ROI websites and similar junk. Only verifiable and transparent options pls.

How can you invest in something that requires a transaction that's essentially anonymous, isn't reversible, and has zero recourse if one gets scammed? If you want an investment opportunity you convert your bitcoin to fiat and then use that fiat to buy your investment. The bitcoin will only be in fiat for a few days (at most). Honestly, it's the only legitimate way to do it at this point.

I guess there's one other option - create an honest investment for us to engage in...

[crazyivan]

Hey guys,

I post these questions a lot recently on different forums but I ve not been able to receive a satisfactory answer. Has BTC economy really turned into a sea of ponzies and scam?
Is there ANYTHING worth of investing these days? Anything which might provide sustainable dividend, regardless of how low it might be?

Pls do not post cryptodublers, pyramid schemes, 5% per day ROI websites and similar junk. Only verifiable and transparent options pls.

How can you invest in something that requires a transaction that's essentially anonymous, isn't reversible, and has zero recourse if one gets scammed? If you want an investment opportunity you convert your bitcoin to fiat and then use that fiat to buy your investment. The bitcoin will only be in fiat for a few days (at most). Honestly, it's the only legitimate way to do it at this point.

I guess there's one other option - create an honest investment for us to engage in...

This is all true but if I wanted FIAT investments, I would not be on this forum. I m a big time crypto supporter. Fortunately, there are still nice crypto investment opportunities, one just need to use his head not to get scammed.

[dooglus]

Are there any catches? Yes, one big catch. Is that you will always generate the PoS interest but the market price of the coin is of course the be-all-end-all. So even though personally I bought X amount of coins a year and half ago and now how roughly double the coins, but as I bought in around 0.00012 a coin and it is now 0.00005 a coin, so haven't come out too far ahead.

It sounds like the price has gone down faster than your number of coins has gone up.

You have doubled your number of coins, but each is worth less than half what you paid for them. That's a loss of value, not a gain: every 12 BTC you bought in with you give you 10 BTC if you sold now. That's a 16.67% loss.

Is there any reason to expect the market cap of this coin to increase? Are there new services accepting it? An increase in awareness of it? If not, as staking causes the money supply to increase we can expect the per-unit price to decrease to keep the market cap the same.

[glendall]

the bottom for a coin is 0. Why on earth would you think that anything but that is the bottom? What is going to stop the other people who are staking the coin from selling them to cash out and further crash the price?

Well sure technically any coin's bottom is '0', even bitcoin. Obviously, right.  The common sense bottom I'm talking about it is the likely lowest point of the coins daily average market trade.  My *estimate* for the bottom of HBN is 0.00003 because it hasn't gone lower than that in a year.

As for your second question, the ultimate answer is of course 'nothing'. But being as proof of stake coin there is less incentive for everyone staking the coin then the majority of other coins. Think of it, if you were generating a 6% stake interest a month, and the price was relatively stable for the last year, why would you want to sell your entire stake and crash the price? It would be in your best interest to just sell in small amounts, or just your monthly 6% or what not.

[glendall]

Are there any catches? Yes, one big catch. Is that you will always generate the PoS interest but the market price of the coin is of course the be-all-end-all. So even though personally I bought X amount of coins a year and half ago and now how roughly double the coins, but as I bought in around 0.00012 a coin and it is now 0.00005 a coin, so haven't come out too far ahead.

It sounds like the price has gone down faster than your number of coins has gone up.

You have doubled your number of coins, but each is worth less than half what you paid for them. That's a loss of value, not a gain: every 12 BTC you bought in with you give you 10 BTC if you sold now. That's a 16.67% loss.

Is there any reason to expect the market cap of this coin to increase? Are there new services accepting it? An increase in awareness of it? If not, as staking causes the money supply to increase we can expect the per-unit price to decrease to keep the market cap the same.

The price went through a pretty wild raise and fall, like many coins do. That's why I mentioned it, to warn people.

As for your calculations showing a 16.67%, I'm pretty sure you are wrong on that.  You are not factoring in the compounding nature of the interest.  Doing some simple calculations here:

10,000  coins   x  bought at price of 0.00012     = 1.2 BTc

With 6% monthly interest, that grows as your coin supply goes:

After 16 months you would have 25,403 coins, and at a market price of  0 x 0.00005, that's =  1.27 BTC

Also, one of big points that I'm trying to make is that its a good time to buy HBN. I really, really don't think it will fall 50% in value, as happened im my case. As said, the coin price hasn't fallen much below 0.00003 in over a year. If you bought at 0.00004 I don't expect it to fall to 0.00002.  And if you are talking short term, in one month, I find it extremely unlikely that it would fall 50%. 

Nothing is guaranteed. But I'm saying that getting a 6% on HBN, at least for the sake of argument lets say for 30 days, is vastly, vastly way better of an option of investment than some of the investments others are bringing up in this thread, especially the 'black box' type where large portion will be scams. And likewise, I think that these very strong odds of making 6% in 30 days are also vastly better than making 4% of 'standard / real world' investment bond, especially considering 4% hardly gets you anywhere when the American dollar will probably have about 2% or more annual inflation anyways.

Is HBN the greatest investment of all time ? No, but I think it is better bet than most.

[ranlo]

Are there any catches? Yes, one big catch. Is that you will always generate the PoS interest but the market price of the coin is of course the be-all-end-all. So even though personally I bought X amount of coins a year and half ago and now how roughly double the coins, but as I bought in around 0.00012 a coin and it is now 0.00005 a coin, so haven't come out too far ahead.

It sounds like the price has gone down faster than your number of coins has gone up.

You have doubled your number of coins, but each is worth less than half what you paid for them. That's a loss of value, not a gain: every 12 BTC you bought in with you give you 10 BTC if you sold now. That's a 16.67% loss.

Is there any reason to expect the market cap of this coin to increase? Are there new services accepting it? An increase in awareness of it? If not, as staking causes the money supply to increase we can expect the per-unit price to decrease to keep the market cap the same.

Far too many people are caught up in "I'm getting free coins" and aren't paying attention to the economics of it. 1 million $0.00 coins are worth far less than one $0.01 coin. But this ignorance among "investors" is also what leads to higher volatility, so it's not that bad for people that actually know what they're doing.

[crazyivan]

The problem with people who re not into PoS is the lack of knowledge about inflation control. When you see a coin which offers 750% PoS annually, you would think, WOW, overproduction will result in high inflation and the price will go down. This is NOT true. Cause this 750% of a specific coin is only in theory in laboratory conditions. In practice, there are several elements which limit this stake rate to much lower 20%, 50%, 100%, depending on coin, which is manageable, especially in combination with large community and small number of coins.

But again, I am already into PoS, I would like to find something else new to test and I have already found a few very nice option which I will test this month. What else?

[Phildo]

the bottom for a coin is 0. Why on earth would you think that anything but that is the bottom? What is going to stop the other people who are staking the coin from selling them to cash out and further crash the price?

Well sure technically any coin's bottom is '0', even bitcoin. Obviously, right.  The common sense bottom I'm talking about it is the likely lowest point of the coins daily average market trade.  My *estimate* for the bottom of HBN is 0.00003 because it hasn't gone lower than that in a year.

As for your second question, the ultimate answer is of course 'nothing'. But being as proof of stake coin there is less incentive for everyone staking the coin then the majority of other coins. Think of it, if you were generating a 6% stake interest a month, and the price was relatively stable for the last year, why would you want to sell your entire stake and crash the price? It would be in your best interest to just sell in small amounts, or just your monthly 6% or what not.

Because if I can sell my entire stake right now and get out with a profit, it makes sense to do it before someone else does it and leaves you fucked. the coin has no trading volume. What happens when 1 person realizes that they can make a profit (or not get totally fucked) by selling all their shit right now and not caring about the price? You can't do the math of number of coins I have now times price because you can't actually get that if you sell everything via slippage. You tell yourself it's in your best interest to sell a bit at a time, and hope that everyone does that, but what happens if someone thinks it's in their best interest to dump and cash out? Why do people expect other people to care about the price after they cash out? I see people make that assumption so many times with all sorts of coins and just don't get it. This coin did $25 volume yesterday and people act like it's some sort unstoppable beast where everyone is cashing out a little as they go and getting rich magically, when in reality everyone is sitting there collecting coins, and some people are just waiting until they have enough to get out.

[EternalWingsofGod]

But again, I am already into PoS, I would like to find something else new to test and I have already found a few very nice option which I will test this month. What else?

At the moment I'm curious on ethereum and whether it will have the growth to become a sustainable investment.
You get rewarded for people using your applications in Ethereum I believe and with the release of Frontier and trading starting on exchanges its on my radar for observation.

[crazyivan]

So, long time no new updates. What s new here?

[ranlo]

So, long time no new updates. What s new here?

Nothing really worth investing in yet, unless you're interested in buying entire projects. There's a casino, a poker site, and an online ecommerce site for sale atm. Past that, it's pretty investment-light right now.

[Gelfman BP]

Gelfman Blueprint is a New York based Financial-Tech company focused on the development of various Bitcoin and financial applications. As a registered MSB (Money Service Business), we currently offer access to a high frequency bitcoin hedge fund. In the past year, our customers have received a monthly return of 7-11% on their bitcoin.

More info can be found here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1158920

[SparkedDev]

Gelfman Blueprint is a New York based Financial-Tech company focused on the development of various Bitcoin and financial applications. As a registered MSB (Money Service Business), we currently offer access to a high frequency bitcoin hedge fund. In the past year, our customers have received a monthly return of 7-11% on their bitcoin.

More info can be found here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1158920

I did see something about this in my post when i get some time tonight ill take a gander at it.

[ranlo]

Gelfman Blueprint is a New York based Financial-Tech company focused on the development of various Bitcoin and financial applications. As a registered MSB (Money Service Business), we currently offer access to a high frequency bitcoin hedge fund. In the past year, our customers have received a monthly return of 7-11% on their bitcoin.

More info can be found here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1158920

I did see something about this in my post when i get some time tonight ill take a gander at it.

Note that the guy who posted that ("Gelfman BP") misrepresented himself as an employee of the business. He's not, and the place is apparently closed-doors right now regardless. Not to mention the first post there has a lot of wrong information, as stated by a real Gelfman employee.

[crazyivan]

Gelfman Blueprint is a New York based Financial-Tech company focused on the development of various Bitcoin and financial applications. As a registered MSB (Money Service Business), we currently offer access to a high frequency bitcoin hedge fund. In the past year, our customers have received a monthly return of 7-11% on their bitcoin.

More info can be found here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1158920

I did see something about this in my post when i get some time tonight ill take a gander at it.

Note that the guy who posted that ("Gelfman BP") misrepresented himself as an employee of the business. He's not, and the place is apparently closed-doors right now regardless. Not to mention the first post there has a lot of wrong information, as stated by a real Gelfman employee.

Are you really surprised? How many of those 1% per day schemes have we seen so far? Investing into anything cloud based or online based is a big risk. It takes a lot of transparency and past results to even consider that.

[OgNasty]

I guess there's one other option - create an honest investment for us to engage in...

That's the route I went, but you're a tough bunch. 

[Branny]

I guess there's one other option - create an honest investment for us to engage in...

That's the route I went, but you're a tough bunch.  

The money available via the bitcoin route for 'legitimate' products is amazingly low and really doesn't make sense for a company to do it.

With a quality startup going the havelock/ect route, you'd be lucky to fund over $50k, and that simply isn't enough to do much with. Meanwhile in countries like the UK you could go with a legitimate crowdfund route and have a pretty easy time getting $500k-$1mm without too many troubles and relatively low investment. Once second market type exchanges come available with JOBS 2012 compliance (And there's 3-4 working on it) bitcoin investment in the US will make even less sense. I'd ask you then, do you REALLY want to be in a country with even less legal oversight and investor recourse than the US or Europe?

I've met many awesome investors so far in the bitcoin world, and maybe it's just me but all of them seem burnt out. You've got bankruptcy after bankruptcy, failure after failure and so on of companies that took or lost SIGNIFICANT sums of money.
 
Freidcat?
AMC?
Bitfunder?
MtGox?
Neo & Bee?

Just between a few guys I know there were MILLIONS lost by way of these companies.

[OgNasty]

I guess there's one other option - create an honest investment for us to engage in...

That's the route I went, but you're a tough bunch.  

I've met many awesome investors so far in the bitcoin world, and maybe it's just me but all of them seem burnt out. You've got bankruptcy after bankruptcy, failure after failure and so on of companies that took or lost SIGNIFICANT sums of money.
  
Freidcat?
AMC?
Bitfunder?
MtGox?
Neo & Bee?

Just between a few guys I know there were MILLIONS lost by way of these companies.

Which is why I created something that not only couldn't lose money or file bankruptcy, and allows anyone to help build revenues, but also made initial supporters whole in less than 1 year.  Those who held since the beginning have seen a ~300% return in weekly distributions as well as a ~400% appreciation of their holdings.  Perhaps investor burnout is the reason why the efforts have gone largely unnoticed, but it still hurts to see threads like this that promote failure after failure and ignore the longstanding positive projects.