Anything sustainable worth of investing?

[ranlo]

I guess there's one other option - create an honest investment for us to engage in...

That's the route I went, but you're a tough bunch. 

The money available via the bitcoin route for 'legitimate' products is amazingly low and really doesn't make sense for a company to do it.

With a quality startup going the havelock/ect route, you'd be lucky to fund over $50k, and that simply isn't enough to do much with. Meanwhile in countries like the UK you could go with a legitimate crowdfund route and have a pretty easy time getting $500k-$1mm without too many troubles and relatively low investment. Once second market type exchanges come available with JOBS 2012 compliance (And there's 3-4 working on it) bitcoin investment in the US will make even less sense. I'd ask you then, do you REALLY want to be in a country with even less legal oversight and investor recourse than the US or Europe?

I've met many awesome investors so far in the bitcoin world, and maybe it's just me but all of them seem burnt out. You've got bankruptcy after bankruptcy, failure after failure and so on of companies that took or lost SIGNIFICANT sums of money.
 
Freidcat?
AMC?
Bitfunder?
MtGox?
Neo & Bee?

Just between a few guys I know there were MILLIONS lost by way of these companies.

This happens because people keep blindly throwing their money at every business, regardless of what it is, in the hopes of becoming a millionaire. If people continue being stupid, we'll continue seeing businesses go bankrupt one after another (in the real world, these would never get off the ground because accredited investors aren't morons. In the crypto world, they take off and crash because the people that invest have no idea what they're doing).

In the past 2+ years following businesses in the crypto world, I've seen a total of one business that was a legitimate opportunity. The rest have been obviously run by people that don't know what's going on and hope that just by making a crypto business they're going to make millions.

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[n2004al]

As for me bitcoin is not creating yet its economy. I mean the real economy. That economy in which produced and invested normally using your money (coin). The reason i think is because bitcoin is a particular currency which act only in internet and its economy can exist only there. Internet is very unreal thing, not touchable and not verifiable. So have much stealers, scammers and such kind of people that contribute to not believe in the little real serious things that can help to create the bitcoin economy. I don't know ways to invest in this economy because that two-three times I have tried I've been scammed. But I think that soon or later something will born. And it will be the first of a chain.

[ThePeddler]

I've seen a total of one business that was a legitimate opportunity. The rest have been obviously run by people that don't know what's going on and hope that just by making a crypto business they're going to make millions.

Any chance that opportunity was Gethashing?
I know cloud mining has a bad reputation these days, but the operation is the most transparent I've been involved with so far.
The group has also actively developed (and continues to improve) a full platform around using the open assets protocol including a web wallet (using SALT so everything is stored client side), an asset exchange, and a BTC/colored coin block explorer.

We just finished relocating our first of two batches of hardware to a new DC this weekend so interesting times are ahead!
https://forum.gethashing.com/t/ghfarm-batch-1-relocation-updates/5058?u=thepeddler

6 months and running so far.
With all the developments over that time, maybe some of the skeptics 4+ months ago should take another look 

[ranlo]

I've seen a total of one business that was a legitimate opportunity. The rest have been obviously run by people that don't know what's going on and hope that just by making a crypto business they're going to make millions.

Any chance that opportunity was Gethashing?
I know cloud mining has a bad reputation these days, but the operation is the most transparent I've been involved with so far.
The group has also actively developed (and continues to improve) a full platform around using the open assets protocol including a web wallet (using SALT so everything is stored client side), an asset exchange, and a BTC/colored coin block explorer.

We just finished relocating our first of two batches of hardware to a new DC this weekend so interesting times are ahead!
https://forum.gethashing.com/t/ghfarm-batch-1-relocation-updates/5058?u=thepeddler

6 months and running so far.
With all the developments over that time, maybe some of the skeptics 4+ months ago should take another look 

It wasn't. I generally stray away from cloud mining just due to the nature (you essentially rely on an unknown variables for 1+ year, in an already risky environment). You end up with over 10 different risk factors, and I just can't fathom ever taking that leap unless the reward was actually worth it (we're talking a 100-bagger, at the least).

[crazyivan]

I still get the best result for differentiation of my investments over various PoS coins. Really good return.
Gethashing is a very decent and transparent operation as well.

[SebastianJu]

I guess there's one other option - create an honest investment for us to engage in...

That's the route I went, but you're a tough bunch.  

I've met many awesome investors so far in the bitcoin world, and maybe it's just me but all of them seem burnt out. You've got bankruptcy after bankruptcy, failure after failure and so on of companies that took or lost SIGNIFICANT sums of money.
  
Freidcat?
AMC?
Bitfunder?
MtGox?
Neo & Bee?

Just between a few guys I know there were MILLIONS lost by way of these companies.

Which is why I created something that not only couldn't lose money or file bankruptcy, and allows anyone to help build revenues, but also made initial supporters whole in less than 1 year.  Those who held since the beginning have seen a ~300% return in weekly distributions as well as a ~400% appreciation of their holdings.  Perhaps investor burnout is the reason why the efforts have gone largely unnoticed, but it still hurts to see threads like this that promote failure after failure and ignore the longstanding positive projects.

Yeah, your projects are the rare case of projects with a good result. But i'm impressed with your numbers. Do you mean 400% worth of the shares and 300% return over the complete lifetime of your projects?

As far as i remember you were involved in mining. I can't imagine that this would be so outstanding rewarding.

Am i wrong?

[OgNasty]

I guess there's one other option - create an honest investment for us to engage in...

Which is why I created something that not only couldn't lose money or file bankruptcy, and allows anyone to help build revenues, but also made initial supporters whole in less than 1 year.  Those who held since the beginning have seen a ~300% return in weekly distributions as well as a ~400% appreciation of their holdings.  Perhaps investor burnout is the reason why the efforts have gone largely unnoticed, but it still hurts to see threads like this that promote failure after failure and ignore the longstanding positive projects.

Yeah, your projects are the rare case of projects with a good result. But i'm impressed with your numbers. Do you mean 400% worth of the shares and 300% return over the complete lifetime of your projects?

As far as i remember you were involved in mining. I can't imagine that this would be so outstanding rewarding.

Am i wrong?

I meant that the initial underlying investment was sold for $1.54.  As of July 1st, 2015 it had paid out $4.08.  Currently they are worth $6.67.

If you were to lump all gains into 1 number and ignore the last two months of payouts (the current quarter's data isn't available yet), your $1.54 would have become $10.75 in just over 3 years, and an even $20 if you held the BTC and never converted to fiat.  That is a 698% gain, or about 232% annually (1,299% gain or 433% annually if you never converted to fiat).  I cannot promise those numbers going forward, as it is harder for me alone to generate these returns as the club grows.  If the community were to embrace this model and participate with the hosting of units and support of our products and services, the gains for investors could continue to beat the market by a wide margin.

We are involved in mining, running a pool with a custom payout method, selling a new kind of silver physical Bitcoin wallet (as well as a few other items), and have several other ventures that are well past the planning stages.

[Branny]

I guess there's one other option - create an honest investment for us to engage in...

Which is why I created something that not only couldn't lose money or file bankruptcy, and allows anyone to help build revenues, but also made initial supporters whole in less than 1 year.  Those who held since the beginning have seen a ~300% return in weekly distributions as well as a ~400% appreciation of their holdings.  Perhaps investor burnout is the reason why the efforts have gone largely unnoticed, but it still hurts to see threads like this that promote failure after failure and ignore the longstanding positive projects.

Yeah, your projects are the rare case of projects with a good result. But i'm impressed with your numbers. Do you mean 400% worth of the shares and 300% return over the complete lifetime of your projects?

As far as i remember you were involved in mining. I can't imagine that this would be so outstanding rewarding.

Am i wrong?

I meant that the initial underlying investment was sold for $1.54.  As of July 1st, 2015 it had paid out $4.08.  Currently they are worth $6.67.

If you were to lump all gains into 1 number and ignore the last two months of payouts (the current quarter's data isn't available yet), your $1.54 would have become $10.75 in just over 3 years, and an even $20 if you held the BTC and never converted to fiat.  That is a 698% gain, or about 232% annually (1,299% gain or 433% annually if you never converted to fiat).  I cannot promise those numbers going forward, as it is harder for me alone to generate these returns as the club grows.  If the community were to embrace this model and participate with the hosting of units and support of our products and services, the gains for investors could continue to beat the market by a wide margin.

We are involved in mining, running a pool with a custom payout method, selling a new kind of silver physical Bitcoin wallet (as well as a few other items), and have several other ventures that are well past the planning stages.

So why not file with the SEC or whatever regulatory firm your country deals with and add several extra 0s to your fund?

[ranlo]

I guess there's one other option - create an honest investment for us to engage in...

Which is why I created something that not only couldn't lose money or file bankruptcy, and allows anyone to help build revenues, but also made initial supporters whole in less than 1 year.  Those who held since the beginning have seen a ~300% return in weekly distributions as well as a ~400% appreciation of their holdings.  Perhaps investor burnout is the reason why the efforts have gone largely unnoticed, but it still hurts to see threads like this that promote failure after failure and ignore the longstanding positive projects.

Yeah, your projects are the rare case of projects with a good result. But i'm impressed with your numbers. Do you mean 400% worth of the shares and 300% return over the complete lifetime of your projects?

As far as i remember you were involved in mining. I can't imagine that this would be so outstanding rewarding.

Am i wrong?

I meant that the initial underlying investment was sold for $1.54.  As of July 1st, 2015 it had paid out $4.08.  Currently they are worth $6.67.

If you were to lump all gains into 1 number and ignore the last two months of payouts (the current quarter's data isn't available yet), your $1.54 would have become $10.75 in just over 3 years, and an even $20 if you held the BTC and never converted to fiat.  That is a 698% gain, or about 232% annually (1,299% gain or 433% annually if you never converted to fiat).  I cannot promise those numbers going forward, as it is harder for me alone to generate these returns as the club grows.  If the community were to embrace this model and participate with the hosting of units and support of our products and services, the gains for investors could continue to beat the market by a wide margin.

We are involved in mining, running a pool with a custom payout method, selling a new kind of silver physical Bitcoin wallet (as well as a few other items), and have several other ventures that are well past the planning stages.

How do people even take part in your business now? It's been a long time since I first learned about it. Are you on some exchange?

[OgNasty]

So why not file with the SEC or whatever regulatory firm your country deals with and add several extra 0s to your fund?

Due to the structure of the organization, we don't exactly fit the description of a business.  There are no assurances of any kind that any revenue will be provided.  NastyFans is closer to a charity than a company in my opinion as all costs of operation are donated by individuals leaving all donations provided through operations to be distributed weekly.  There have been a few conversations with individuals about taking things to the next level with significant investment and rebranding, but not with terms appealing enough to follow thru with.  While I think growth is important, the #1 thing is to keep things fun and continue doing what is best for Bitcoin.

How do people even take part in your business now? It's been a long time since I first learned about it. Are you on some exchange?

NastyFans launched it's own auction for buying and selling seats in January of 2013.  After the collapse of GLBSE in 2012, we decided it was better to eliminate all 3rd party risk.  You can access the auction at nastyfans.org.  Bitcointalk member nonnakip has done an amazing job building the infrastructure from the ground up in C, and I think nonnakip's development is arguably the most valuable thing about NastyFans.  There are several ways to support and benefit from Nasty operations.  My personal favorite is our Minted Seats, but I would also like to bring attention to NastyPool.  In addition to using our products and services, we also encourage anyone to join in helping build NastyFans.  A great example of this is the Minted Seats Analyzer that user naypalm created.  Even I have done a little development with our NastyFans iOS App & organization of all developer tools in our Dev Center.

[SebastianJu]

I guess there's one other option - create an honest investment for us to engage in...

Which is why I created something that not only couldn't lose money or file bankruptcy, and allows anyone to help build revenues, but also made initial supporters whole in less than 1 year.  Those who held since the beginning have seen a ~300% return in weekly distributions as well as a ~400% appreciation of their holdings.  Perhaps investor burnout is the reason why the efforts have gone largely unnoticed, but it still hurts to see threads like this that promote failure after failure and ignore the longstanding positive projects.

Yeah, your projects are the rare case of projects with a good result. But i'm impressed with your numbers. Do you mean 400% worth of the shares and 300% return over the complete lifetime of your projects?

As far as i remember you were involved in mining. I can't imagine that this would be so outstanding rewarding.

Am i wrong?

I meant that the initial underlying investment was sold for $1.54.  As of July 1st, 2015 it had paid out $4.08.  Currently they are worth $6.67.

If you were to lump all gains into 1 number and ignore the last two months of payouts (the current quarter's data isn't available yet), your $1.54 would have become $10.75 in just over 3 years, and an even $20 if you held the BTC and never converted to fiat.  That is a 698% gain, or about 232% annually (1,299% gain or 433% annually if you never converted to fiat).  I cannot promise those numbers going forward, as it is harder for me alone to generate these returns as the club grows.  If the community were to embrace this model and participate with the hosting of units and support of our products and services, the gains for investors could continue to beat the market by a wide margin.

We are involved in mining, running a pool with a custom payout method, selling a new kind of silver physical Bitcoin wallet (as well as a few other items), and have several other ventures that are well past the planning stages.

That probably makes you one of the rare case of a bitcoin entrepreneur that is no scammer and no inept businessman. Refreshing i must say.

And on top... your communication is great. That is the worst point with most other entrepreneurs.

Saying that... mining doesn't exactly sound like a rewarding business anymore. Can you tell what the change would have been for someone buying shares one week ago or one month ago? If you don't have exact numbers then a guess is ok.

[OgNasty]

Can you tell what the change would have been for someone buying shares one week ago or one month ago?

I'm not sure I understand the question, but if you take a look at our thread you can see that NastyFans publishes all trades.  If you actually are a member of NastyFans, you can see charts showing data in both USD and BTC dating back to the inception of the club at nastyfans.org.

[n2004al]

http://track.finministry.com/tiny/AHr8I
Promo Code: CRTONL
250$ sign-up bonus!

Paypal accepted here as well, no hyip risk

Your proposition seems like is a sure investment. But is a common trade platform like hundred others. In which you have your part for the referral link given in the post. Which is prohibited. I had 10 days ban for posting referral links in one my post. I suggest to remove it before one of the moderators see it. For the others good luck with the trading. But it is an investment like the others.

[SebastianJu]

Can you tell what the change would have been for someone buying shares one week ago or one month ago?

I'm not sure I understand the question, but if you take a look at our thread you can see that NastyFans publishes all trades.  If you actually are a member of NastyFans, you can see charts showing data in both USD and BTC dating back to the inception of the club at nastyfans.org.

I meant when someone was not involved in OgNasty yet and bought shares one week ago, or a month ago, what percentage of profit would he have gotten nowadays? I guess you can tell that even without dividends sent out yet, right?

I only want to judge how profitable it is at the moment.

[OgNasty]

Can you tell what the change would have been for someone buying shares one week ago or one month ago?

I'm not sure I understand the question, but if you take a look at our thread you can see that NastyFans publishes all trades.  If you actually are a member of NastyFans, you can see charts showing data in both USD and BTC dating back to the inception of the club at nastyfans.org.

I meant when someone was not involved in OgNasty yet and bought shares one week ago, or a month ago, what percentage of profit would he have gotten nowadays? I guess you can tell that even without dividends sent out yet, right?

I only want to judge how profitable it is at the moment.

Well, nobody better be in OgNasty or there will be hell to pay.

As far as NastyFans goes, there are all sorts of stats available.  All you have to do is look at the iOS App, our thread, our public address, our website, or our dev site to get these answers and a lot more information.

I went ahead and pasted the trailing 9-week annual yield number from our thread here.  All our stats automatically update.

ANNUAL DONATION YIELD:


Perhaps if people did their due diligence instead of relying on the people who run securities for information, many of the scams mentioned in this thread would not have occurred.  

[SebastianJu]

Can you tell what the change would have been for someone buying shares one week ago or one month ago?

I'm not sure I understand the question, but if you take a look at our thread you can see that NastyFans publishes all trades.  If you actually are a member of NastyFans, you can see charts showing data in both USD and BTC dating back to the inception of the club at nastyfans.org.

I meant when someone was not involved in OgNasty yet and bought shares one week ago, or a month ago, what percentage of profit would he have gotten nowadays? I guess you can tell that even without dividends sent out yet, right?

I only want to judge how profitable it is at the moment.

Well, nobody better be in OgNasty or there will be hell to pay.

As far as NastyFans goes, there are all sorts of stats available.  All you have to do is look at the iOS App, our thread, our public address, our website, or our dev site to get these answers and a lot more information.

I went ahead and pasted the trailing 9-week annual yield number from our thread here.  All our stats automatically update.

ANNUAL DONATION YIELD:


Perhaps if people did their due diligence instead of relying on the people who run securities for information, many of the scams mentioned in this thread would not have occurred.  

Interesting. Judging from that you are at it since years already you are one of the better investments even though your profit is not as high as other forms of investments are. Though you are safer... that's worth a lot.

If your last paragraph was for me... i did not want to invest yet. I only wanted to know the numbers. And since you most probably know them and you can advertise your venture by posting it, i thought i can save me the time to investigate.

But i agree... before investing a real thorough investigation should be done. It's mostly better to not invest. Even with 100% annual return you lost 100% of your investment for one year. And it's open if you get it back in full.

[ranlo]

Can you tell what the change would have been for someone buying shares one week ago or one month ago?

I'm not sure I understand the question, but if you take a look at our thread you can see that NastyFans publishes all trades.  If you actually are a member of NastyFans, you can see charts showing data in both USD and BTC dating back to the inception of the club at nastyfans.org.

I meant when someone was not involved in OgNasty yet and bought shares one week ago, or a month ago, what percentage of profit would he have gotten nowadays? I guess you can tell that even without dividends sent out yet, right?

I only want to judge how profitable it is at the moment.

Well, nobody better be in OgNasty or there will be hell to pay.

As far as NastyFans goes, there are all sorts of stats available.  All you have to do is look at the iOS App, our thread, our public address, our website, or our dev site to get these answers and a lot more information.

I went ahead and pasted the trailing 9-week annual yield number from our thread here.  All our stats automatically update.

ANNUAL DONATION YIELD:


Perhaps if people did their due diligence instead of relying on the people who run securities for information, many of the scams mentioned in this thread would not have occurred. 

Interesting. Judging from that you are at it since years already you are one of the better investments even though your profit is not as high as other forms of investments are. Though you are safer... that's worth a lot.

If your last paragraph was for me... i did not want to invest yet. I only wanted to know the numbers. And since you most probably know them and you can advertise your venture by posting it, i thought i can save me the time to investigate.

But i agree... before investing a real thorough investigation should be done. It's mostly better to not invest. Even with 100% annual return you lost 100% of your investment for one year. And it's open if you get it back in full.

Yeah, I'm not in it yet, either, but I'm thinking about snagging a seat just to be part and watch what happens going forward, . Seems a seat (share) is around 29 mBTC right now.

[OgNasty]

Yeah, I'm not in it yet, either, but I'm thinking about snagging a seat just to be part and watch what happens going forward, . Seems a seat (share) is around 29 mBTC right now.

I would definitely recommend picking up 1 seat and seeing what information is available on the site.  You should get a feel for how everything works and what to expect before considering a larger stake.

[sperzel]

I wish there was. The only decent investment that I have found is Bitfinex (lending BTC/USD there), and I'm not even sure about that one.

Bitfinex is probably the safest currently. 

What exactly? Lending?

Lending in BTC and/or USD.  I don't have a lot in there at all but have been doing it for over 2 years, never had a problem.

Lending seems as an interesting option. Have also checked BTClend and other similar sites. The main problem is collateral. None of lending sites has managed to solve this issue.

There is one good lending site where the borrowers can put collateral (e.g. altcoins): BTCPop.
Depending on the rating of the borrowers loans are insured additionally up to 75%. That's why, some loans are no brainers since there is much collateral and/or a high percentage insured.

[SparkedDev]

I found something that seems decent:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1171933.0