Anything sustainable worth of investing?

[OgNasty]

Bitcointalk securities reputation is so bad no self respecting company would even bother.

99% of the blame for that falls on the people who invested in things like Goat's fictional rice patty field or usagi's endless ponzi funds.  It got to the point where issuers weren't even listing where their revenue was going to come from.  They just claimed a return and people piled in. 

I do wish there were more good options so that sites tracking these securities would pop up, more investment was directed at worthy targets, and maybe even analysts popping up to cover them.  Right now, you are right, there is very little investment happening here due to the endless scam attempts and lack of BTC by it's remaining users.  It is a shame, because I think that this type of micro-security and Bitcoin is a perfect match with all sorts of potential to build some really great stuff.  Oh well...

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[crazyivan]

Yup PoS coins are like bubbles (or ponzis) you can make money providing you enter and exit at the correct times. And the money you make is directly related to the money someone else is losing. I would say that sort of unethical approach to taking profit is NOT sustainable. If it hurts an individual it hurts the whole community.

There must be be sustainable investments in the btc world (I'm watching coinsilium right now) but they are not listing in these boards. Bitcointalk securities reputation is so bad no self respecting company would even bother.

Coinsilium? Never heard of those. Do they allow you to pick your own portfolio or they act as hedge fund? Since you ve been watching them, could you pls elaborate a bit?

[crazyivan]

Ok, what else is there? Has there been anything interested which you may have found in the last couple of weeks?

[SebastianJu]

Yup PoS coins are like bubbles (or ponzis) you can make money providing you enter and exit at the correct times. And the money you make is directly related to the money someone else is losing. I would say that sort of unethical approach to taking profit is NOT sustainable. If it hurts an individual it hurts the whole community.

There must be be sustainable investments in the btc world (I'm watching coinsilium right now) but they are not listing in these boards. Bitcointalk securities reputation is so bad no self respecting company would even bother.

If you think that way then trading bit- or altcoins would be unethical too since every won bitcoin was lost by others. It's a zero game. If someone wins then some other is losing.

[ranlo]

Yup PoS coins are like bubbles (or ponzis) you can make money providing you enter and exit at the correct times. And the money you make is directly related to the money someone else is losing. I would say that sort of unethical approach to taking profit is NOT sustainable. If it hurts an individual it hurts the whole community.

There must be be sustainable investments in the btc world (I'm watching coinsilium right now) but they are not listing in these boards. Bitcointalk securities reputation is so bad no self respecting company would even bother.

If you think that way then trading bit- or altcoins would be unethical too since every won bitcoin was lost by others. It's a zero game. If someone wins then some other is losing.

The same goes with stocks. Essentially, gogx is claiming every investment known to man is a ponzi/unethical.

[SebastianJu]

Yup PoS coins are like bubbles (or ponzis) you can make money providing you enter and exit at the correct times. And the money you make is directly related to the money someone else is losing. I would say that sort of unethical approach to taking profit is NOT sustainable. If it hurts an individual it hurts the whole community.

There must be be sustainable investments in the btc world (I'm watching coinsilium right now) but they are not listing in these boards. Bitcointalk securities reputation is so bad no self respecting company would even bother.

If you think that way then trading bit- or altcoins would be unethical too since every won bitcoin was lost by others. It's a zero game. If someone wins then some other is losing.

The same goes with stocks. Essentially, gogx is claiming every investment known to man is a ponzi/unethical.

Not every investment. Trading on the price of a company should be different than owning a share in a legit business. The latter would not have losers if the business offers something of value to their customers. Because of the additional value created the customers, company and shareholders win.

It's not always a ponzi.

[ranlo]

Yup PoS coins are like bubbles (or ponzis) you can make money providing you enter and exit at the correct times. And the money you make is directly related to the money someone else is losing. I would say that sort of unethical approach to taking profit is NOT sustainable. If it hurts an individual it hurts the whole community.

There must be be sustainable investments in the btc world (I'm watching coinsilium right now) but they are not listing in these boards. Bitcointalk securities reputation is so bad no self respecting company would even bother.

If you think that way then trading bit- or altcoins would be unethical too since every won bitcoin was lost by others. It's a zero game. If someone wins then some other is losing.

The same goes with stocks. Essentially, gogx is claiming every investment known to man is a ponzi/unethical.

Not every investment. Trading on the price of a company should be different than owning a share in a legit business. The latter would not have losers if the business offers something of value to their customers. Because of the additional value created the customers, company and shareholders win.

It's not always a ponzi.

The PoS coin has customers. Those customers purchase coins. Those increase the market cap. The same as a company. Both create value in the same way (they take money in and return goods or services).

[OrientA]

The PoS coin has customers. Those customers purchase coins. Those increase the market cap. The same as a company. Both create value in the same way (they take money in and return goods or services).

Is there a PoS coin accepted by renowned high street or on line retailers (not online casinos) like bitcoin? I know Clam is accepted by a on line casino. I do not know other coins accepted. If PoS coin are distributed fairly, it can be a good one as it saves some energy.

[ranlo]

The PoS coin has customers. Those customers purchase coins. Those increase the market cap. The same as a company. Both create value in the same way (they take money in and return goods or services).

Is there a PoS coin accepted by renowned high street or on line retailers (not online casinos) like bitcoin? I know Clam is accepted by a on line casino. I do not know other coins accepted. If PoS coin are distributed fairly, it can be a good one as it saves some energy.

That's irrelevant. Is a mom and pop shop "accepted by renowned high street" people? No. It still creates value for itself. How a coin is created and/or "minted" means nothing. It either has value (people buy into it for some reason or another) or it doesn't. Fiat has nothing backing it, either, other than the perception of value, which is no different than any crypto out there.

[crazyivan]

The PoS coin has customers. Those customers purchase coins. Those increase the market cap. The same as a company. Both create value in the same way (they take money in and return goods or services).

Is there a PoS coin accepted by renowned high street or on line retailers (not online casinos) like bitcoin? I know Clam is accepted by a on line casino. I do not know other coins accepted. If PoS coin are distributed fairly, it can be a good one as it saves some energy.

Hyper s been used in a lot of online games. In addition to CLAM, it s got a read online demand. But I still love DMD, that coin has never turned me down and has brought me nothing but profits.

[EternalWingsofGod]

Bitcointalk securities reputation is so bad no self respecting company would even bother.

99% of the blame for that falls on the people who invested in things like Goat's fictional rice patty field or usagi's endless ponzi funds.  It got to the point where issuers weren't even listing where their revenue was going to come from.  They just claimed a return and people piled in. 

I do wish there were more good options so that sites tracking these securities would pop up, more investment was directed at worthy targets, and maybe even analysts popping up to cover them.  Right now, you are right, there is very little investment happening here due to the endless scam attempts and lack of BTC by it's remaining users.  It is a shame, because I think that this type of micro-security and Bitcoin is a perfect match with all sorts of potential to build some really great stuff.  Oh well...

To my knowledge the last real exchange for Bitcoin fundraising is not havelock but bnktothefuture that said the capital requirements to fundraise their tend to be greater than the tiny IPO's and share offers available on bitcoin exchanges, that and the shares are not traded on open exchange.
Basically alt-coin trading is the new securities.

[erickimani]

that is very true, there are risks of losing cash or Btc through scammers but that does not mean that we cannot invest. negative people have been there since history began, they are the reason that the security systems are put in place. or we need to do is be careful while dealing with people. the only rule that can always keep you safe is that " never trust anyone but yourself".  there are good people out there

[Timetwister]

Maybe some day reliable brokers will accept deposits in bitcoins, so you could in some sense invest in for example the stock market using bitcoins.

[stereotype]

Maybe some day reliable brokers will accept deposits in bitcoins, so you could in some sense invest in for example the stock market using bitcoins.

https://1broker.com/

[crazyivan]

Bitcointalk securities reputation is so bad no self respecting company would even bother.

99% of the blame for that falls on the people who invested in things like Goat's fictional rice patty field or usagi's endless ponzi funds.  It got to the point where issuers weren't even listing where their revenue was going to come from.  They just claimed a return and people piled in. 

I do wish there were more good options so that sites tracking these securities would pop up, more investment was directed at worthy targets, and maybe even analysts popping up to cover them.  Right now, you are right, there is very little investment happening here due to the endless scam attempts and lack of BTC by it's remaining users.  It is a shame, because I think that this type of micro-security and Bitcoin is a perfect match with all sorts of potential to build some really great stuff.  Oh well...

To my knowledge the last real exchange for Bitcoin fundraising is not havelock but bnktothefuture that said the capital requirements to fundraise their tend to be greater than the tiny IPO's and share offers available on bitcoin exchanges, that and the shares are not traded on open exchange.
Basically alt-coin trading is the new securities.

Has anyone actually used bnktothefuture? Is it possible to make any money on these startup companies? How does that work?

[EternalWingsofGod]

Bitcointalk securities reputation is so bad no self respecting company would even bother.

99% of the blame for that falls on the people who invested in things like Goat's fictional rice patty field or usagi's endless ponzi funds.  It got to the point where issuers weren't even listing where their revenue was going to come from.  They just claimed a return and people piled in.  

I do wish there were more good options so that sites tracking these securities would pop up, more investment was directed at worthy targets, and maybe even analysts popping up to cover them.  Right now, you are right, there is very little investment happening here due to the endless scam attempts and lack of BTC by it's remaining users.  It is a shame, because I think that this type of micro-security and Bitcoin is a perfect match with all sorts of potential to build some really great stuff.  Oh well...

To my knowledge the last real exchange for Bitcoin fundraising is not havelock but bnktothefuture that said the capital requirements to fundraise their tend to be greater than the tiny IPO's and share offers available on bitcoin exchanges, that and the shares are not traded on open exchange.
Basically alt-coin trading is the new securities.

Has anyone actually used bnktothefuture? Is it possible to make any money on these startup companies? How does that work?

I haven't used it myself but I brought it up crazyivan so I'll add some more details.
The reason I'm aware of the site is because of some successful launches like Bitpesa (Even though they had issues lately the challenges of micro finance and banking (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1263524.msg13072489#msg13072489) and RT Max Keiser has been running tranches on it and paying daily dividends which is why people are buying into it.

For those who are curious Keiser is from the Keiser Report on Russia Today, its been making returns as its in the third tranche and I should have clarified most companies are large scale investment that said there are minor ones like Bitcoin Capital as well.
Links below for those who are curious.

https://bnktothefuture.com/pitches/2081/_bitcoin-capital-crypto-fund-managed-by-max-keiser-simon-dixon.html
https://bnktothefuture.com/pitches/2120/_bitcoin-capital-tranche-2-crypto-fund-managed-by-max-keiser-simon-dixon.html
https://bnktothefuture.com/pitches/2543/_bitcoin-capital-3-bitcoin-fund-managed-by-simon-dixon-and-max-keiser-that-pays-daily-dividends-in-bitcoin.html

At the least in these type of assets their is a lot more promise than some other listings I've seen as always their is risk of course but it's true startup investment.

[crazyivan]

Bitcointalk securities reputation is so bad no self respecting company would even bother.

99% of the blame for that falls on the people who invested in things like Goat's fictional rice patty field or usagi's endless ponzi funds.  It got to the point where issuers weren't even listing where their revenue was going to come from.  They just claimed a return and people piled in.  

I do wish there were more good options so that sites tracking these securities would pop up, more investment was directed at worthy targets, and maybe even analysts popping up to cover them.  Right now, you are right, there is very little investment happening here due to the endless scam attempts and lack of BTC by it's remaining users.  It is a shame, because I think that this type of micro-security and Bitcoin is a perfect match with all sorts of potential to build some really great stuff.  Oh well...

To my knowledge the last real exchange for Bitcoin fundraising is not havelock but bnktothefuture that said the capital requirements to fundraise their tend to be greater than the tiny IPO's and share offers available on bitcoin exchanges, that and the shares are not traded on open exchange.
Basically alt-coin trading is the new securities.

Has anyone actually used bnktothefuture? Is it possible to make any money on these startup companies? How does that work?

I haven't used it myself but I brought it up crazyivan so I'll add some more details.
The reason I'm aware of the site is because of some successful launches like Bitpesa (Even though they had issues lately the challenges of micro finance and banking (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1263524.msg13072489#msg13072489) and RT Max Keiser has been running tranches on it and paying daily dividends which is why people are buying into it.

For those who are curious Keiser is from the Keiser Report on Russia Today, its been making returns as its in the third tranche and I should have clarified most companies are large scale investment that said there are minor ones like Bitcoin Capital as well.
Links below for those who are curious.

https://bnktothefuture.com/pitches/2081/_bitcoin-capital-crypto-fund-managed-by-max-keiser-simon-dixon.html
https://bnktothefuture.com/pitches/2120/_bitcoin-capital-tranche-2-crypto-fund-managed-by-max-keiser-simon-dixon.html
https://bnktothefuture.com/pitches/2543/_bitcoin-capital-3-bitcoin-fund-managed-by-simon-dixon-and-max-keiser-that-pays-daily-dividends-in-bitcoin.html

At the least in these type of assets their is a lot more promise than some other listings I've seen as always their is risk of course but it's true startup investment.

Thank you for this. I ve also been looking into them but I was unable to find any success stories from small startup investors. If this is good, there must be someone who has invested and can share their experience.

[stereotype]

Bitcointalk securities reputation is so bad no self respecting company would even bother.

99% of the blame for that falls on the people who invested in things like Goat's fictional rice patty field or usagi's endless ponzi funds.  It got to the point where issuers weren't even listing where their revenue was going to come from.  They just claimed a return and people piled in.  

I do wish there were more good options so that sites tracking these securities would pop up, more investment was directed at worthy targets, and maybe even analysts popping up to cover them.  Right now, you are right, there is very little investment happening here due to the endless scam attempts and lack of BTC by it's remaining users.  It is a shame, because I think that this type of micro-security and Bitcoin is a perfect match with all sorts of potential to build some really great stuff.  Oh well...

To my knowledge the last real exchange for Bitcoin fundraising is not havelock but bnktothefuture that said the capital requirements to fundraise their tend to be greater than the tiny IPO's and share offers available on bitcoin exchanges, that and the shares are not traded on open exchange.
Basically alt-coin trading is the new securities.

Has anyone actually used bnktothefuture? Is it possible to make any money on these startup companies? How does that work?

I haven't used it myself but I brought it up crazyivan so I'll add some more details.
The reason I'm aware of the site is because of some successful launches like Bitpesa (Even though they had issues lately the challenges of micro finance and banking (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1263524.msg13072489#msg13072489) and RT Max Keiser has been running tranches on it and paying daily dividends which is why people are buying into it.

For those who are curious Keiser is from the Keiser Report on Russia Today, its been making returns as its in the third tranche and I should have clarified most companies are large scale investment that said there are minor ones like Bitcoin Capital as well.
Links below for those who are curious.

https://bnktothefuture.com/pitches/2081/_bitcoin-capital-crypto-fund-managed-by-max-keiser-simon-dixon.html
https://bnktothefuture.com/pitches/2120/_bitcoin-capital-tranche-2-crypto-fund-managed-by-max-keiser-simon-dixon.html
https://bnktothefuture.com/pitches/2543/_bitcoin-capital-3-bitcoin-fund-managed-by-simon-dixon-and-max-keiser-that-pays-daily-dividends-in-bitcoin.html

At the least in these type of assets their is a lot more promise than some other listings I've seen as always their is risk of course but it's true startup investment.

Thank you for this. I ve also been looking into them but I was unable to find any success stories from small startup investors. If this is good, there must be someone who has invested and can share their experience.

Yes, its not easy finding that info (ROI, Divs, P&L, etc.) But I noticed Shapeshift was a funded company. I would have thought, this would be the best metric and demonstration of what a 'successful' investment looks like, within this context. 

https://bnktothefuture.com/pitches/2090/_shapeshift-io-now-every-bitcoin-merchant-accepts-alternative-crypto-currencies.html

[EternalWingsofGod]

Thank you for this. I ve also been looking into them but I was unable to find any success stories from small startup investors. If this is good, there must be someone who has invested and can share their experience.

No problem glad it interested you.

Yes, its not easy finding that info (ROI, Divs, P&L, etc.) But I noticed Shapeshift was a funded company. I would have thought, this would be the best metric and demonstration of what a 'successful' investment looks like, within this context.  

https://bnktothefuture.com/pitches/2090/_shapeshift-io-now-every-bitcoin-merchant-accepts-alternative-crypto-currencies.html

Shapeshift is a good company as I mentioned B2TF definitely has some pitches that were on my radar alongside some other neat ideas.
In regards to ROI for Keisers fund one of the episodes/podcasts of RT, Dixon mentioned that the first one launched was nearing 50% ROI
7:20 range in the vid

KEISER REPORT with Simon Dixon - BITCOIN CAPITAL 3  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYp-_RHEp8w

[Timetwister]

Maybe some day reliable brokers will accept deposits in bitcoins, so you could in some sense invest in for example the stock market using bitcoins.

https://1broker.com/

I said reliable, like Interactive Brokers. And there you can just buy CFD...