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Author Topic: DASH Collapsing Monero UP  (Read 40364 times)
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November 15, 2015, 09:48:33 PM
 #221

The less scrutiny an algorithm has been under the more risk for vulnerability existing.

11 times whatever likelihood is still less likely than the 100% certainty of launching with an intentionally crippled miner. Unless you believe 11 times 10% risk is 110% risk for example.

Why are you trying to distract from the issue? The crippled miner issue was fixed quickly in Monero and with little effects, whereas the instamine 100% happened to the tune of 30% of current emissions and the algorithm issue is current and on going, and far as I know, has no plans of being changed.

Typical, ....

Wants to distract from the huge pink elephant in the room of the dash-ers

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December 06, 2015, 02:55:08 AM
 #222

The market reaction to Dash's Evolusham speaks for itself:



The so-called "whitepapers" are actually content-free, buzz-word heavy marketing brochures.


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whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
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December 06, 2015, 03:06:24 AM
 #223

The market reaction to Dash's Evolusham speaks for itself:



The so-called "whitepapers" are actually content-free, buzz-word heavy marketing brochures.

Gotta make dem sales!

That's what Dash is...a sales pitch.

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        ▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀       
           ²▀▀▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▀▀`          
                   ²²²                 
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December 06, 2015, 03:11:21 AM
 #224

Worst Idea Ever: Darkcoin to Dashcoin re-brand



2nd Worst Idea Ever: Evolusham



DarkDash  Embarrassed

Evolusham  Cry


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whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
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December 06, 2015, 04:43:48 AM
 #225

So much having a "very basic working" Evolusham prototype in Miami!

Quote

The Evan's Gate cultists are very quiet at the moment, with only a few whimpers of disappointment and despair emanating from their compound:


https://archive.is/20151206043730/https://dashtalk.org/threads/dash-to-speak-and-exhibit-at-the-3rd-latin-american-bitcoin-conference-mexico.6505/page-3%23post-75771

We can add this to the growing list of Madoffield's red flags and broken promises!


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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
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December 20, 2015, 10:30:40 PM
 #226



Thanks to TBTB_need_Anonymint for tearing Evan Maddoffield a new asshole!


IX requires 6 of 10 signatures to create a transaction lock.

Which is exactly what I wrote it must do, and exactly what I wrote when I surmised that your white paper was implying the highly jammable design of 10-of-10.

But as I pointed out in the correct math (which is clear you still haven't grasped), even 6-of-10 can be jammed 62% of the time (and multiply spent the other 38% of the time) given a 50% attack on the masternodes (i.e. the 50% attack on masternodes can attack 100% of the InstantX transactions). Even at 10% attack on masternodes, then every 666th UTXO can be jammed and roughly every 10,000th UTXO can be multiply spent. So if there are 66,600 UXTO, then a 10% attack on the masternodes (i.e. controlling 10% of the masternodes) roughly can jam 100 of the available UXTO and double-spend (actually multiply spend, i.e. unlimited lies can be announced by masternodes) 7 of them.

These sort of flaws are amateurish. You are in over your head. You are a programmer and some sort of finance person and a reasonably good marketer mining the gullible speculators (but not to actual users of currency), but you are not capable enough on the block chain theory.

This entire argument is based on an invalid premise! So your jamming attack doesn't work...

Nope. My entire argument is you apparently still don't know how to do basic probability math.

Will you attempt to copy my design and order Dash's masternode announcements? Then will you try to copy my design and merge all the orphans? If not, you will still have attack flaws in your design. Will you replace the deposit for controlling a masternodes with a nomination by PoW, so as to avoid the flaw of externalities that can finance the purchase of masternodes, e.g. shorting the coin.

Well even if you do manage to copy my design, you still can't fix the fact that attacking masternodes is a one-time cost and not sublinear (ongoing cost) as per attacking a correctly designed PoW coin (which is the point that has been made by myself, monsterer, and smooth). And thus Dash is a proof-of-stake security model, not a proof-of-work. Thus it can be undermined by for example combining shorting with attacking masternodes. And you won't get all the small details correct, because you simply don't have enough smart people helping you, because apparently the smart people don't want to work on your closed source during development (and very well documented allegations: fraud) coin. I would never work on your coin, because you have no usership. It is all marketing to speculators to mine the speculators. What is the point? We are supposed to be creating crypto to change the world and entice millions or billions of users. But that has never been your marketing plan. You've always been mining the speculators instead.

And also I do believe the SEC will be coming after you eventually for very clearly running an unregistered illegal investment security (and you come from the finance world so you know very well that you are skirting the securities law). Hope you've paid off the regulators with the $million you mined from the gullible speculators in crypto. Personally I don't see how it has been worth it. The $million you've perhaps pocketed will never sustain you to be rich for the rest of your life, and you will constantly have hanging over your head the threat of SEC action at any time in the future. That is criminal liability in exchange for $million. Not worth it. You are nearing the end of the road for your run.

When I originally assisted you on some of the errors in your original design which caused you to invent masternodes, I viewed you as a nice guy who was trying to develop something. When all these allegations of fraud and premine crap came out, I was very shamed that I had let you get away with promoting Dash. I always knew that Dash was a barely literate design (come on do you really want me to explain how your new anonymity design will be just as flawed as the current on in Dash!), but I didn't want to interfere because I am not the altcoin police (unlike smooth who sometimes tries to act like a sheriff). But really I have to tell you frankly, that I am ashamed that you have mined the speculators and not proposed any real impact for mass usership. And now you have the audacity to go pumping up this Evolution design as some great innovation and fooling more gullible speculators. I mean if you hadn't of done the fraud thing, I would probably not be hitting you so hard now. Again I don't go around harping on the fraud thing, because I am not the altcoin police. But pleeeaaaseee do not try to argue that you are capable on block chain theory tech. You are not.

I don't want to help you because you are doing evil in terms of the goals we as a community are trying to reach. You are siphoning away money from the community and not putting it towards actual innovation (both marketing and technical) that could really help us deal with the problem of a State gone amok. Help us to reach the ideals of crypto. Instead you are just mining the speculators and they seem to believe you are technically capable. You are capable enough to produce code, and you are capable enough to correct mistakes that are pointed out to you. But you are not capable enough to get the really smart people to work with you on ongoing basis, because you are not going in the correct direction in terms of the purpose of why we are here supporting crypto in the first place, which is to get millions of users to use crypto and to better the world (while also making money from increased adoption, not from mining from each other i.e. extracting money from each other in zero-sum game on this forum).

Maybe if you mea culpa on the premine crap and work towards bettering the world instead fooling (ahem marketing to the) the speculators, then maybe I would feel like helping you. But any way, I am moving forward on trying to move the crypto world forward in the direction it needs to be going. Maybe you should help me! I helped you before and you made a lot of money from me standing aside and not criticizing Dash in the early days. Maybe now it is time for you to pay back to the community.

And most definitely you can't duplicate my marketing plan directly to millions of users.

This is the end of the road for Dash.

It will be evident some weeks from now that Dash has no future.


Edit: I will look at your source code links when I have time. I need to head out the door to do errands. If I discover that any of my points are incorrect, I will mea culpa. Again I don't hate you, but I feel I must be frank about the technology because we really need innovation that help us reach the goals of crypto and not just half-assed tech from guys who design schemes to siphon off the capital of crypto into their pockets. And again I have studied the SEC regulations and all these marketing to speculators is clearly a violation of the Howey test for being an unregistered illegal investment security. It doesn't matter how you've obfuscated it by pretending the masternodes are in control, the Supreme Court has consistently said that the test overlooks any attempts to obfuscate the economic reality of the situation. Then on top of that is the evidence of deception with the premine and the advertised money supply protocol being altered ex post facto, etc.

And afaik you are a USA citizen, so thus you incur the maximum culpability.

Evan Madoffield  Embarrassed

DASH Cry



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Monero
"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
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December 20, 2015, 11:19:14 PM
 #227

...

Just stating the facts, ma'am.

"Facts" that are irrelevant to the debate.

I know, its the core principle by which the Maneurians spread their feces, ahem, gospel.

If Manuero was based on technical premise alone, it wouldn't even be discussed here.

Its just the same handful of desperate retards that have decided to use their precious hours on planet earth trying to swindle their fellow man 24/7.

So what are the technical weaknesses of Monero, nutilduh?

We've discussed the weaknesses of dash: the algorithm(s), the instamine, darksend, the fallacy of decentralized goverance where a few probably hold an inordinate amount of coins thanks to an instamine and the lowering of emissions shortly thereafter (I may have missed one or two).


Over a month and Nutilda hasn't retorted but ran away.  


Cheesy typical bullshit around here.

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December 21, 2015, 06:32:50 PM
 #228

And again I have studied the SEC regulations and all these marketing to speculators is clearly a violation of the Howey test for being an unregistered illegal investment security.

Okay, I'm going to step in at this point. For the record, I don't own any DASH and I never have: not even in the days when it was Darkcoin. I've also been an interested but apathetic spectator when it comes to this Hatfield-McCoy feud between the DASHers and the Moneroites. Further for the record, I do own a tiny haunch of AEON. Pecuniary-wise, I'd have to be counted as a very minor 'McCoy', but my AEON holdings are worth less than a tank of gasoline.

A-mint has brought up the Howey test before, and I thank him for it. We need people like him to do so, even if (in this case) I think he's misguided. It's clear that he zeroed in on an issue that gets to the heart of what open-source means.  

First of all, for everyone, here are the four criteria of the Howey Test from this source (which jibes with Wikipedia):

Quote from: Nick Reuter
An investment contract under the Howey Test was defined as follows:

1. an investment of money due to
2. an expectation of profits arising from
3. a common enterprise
4. which depends solely on the efforts of a promoter or third party

What this meant for J. Howey, and for all real estate investors in the future, was that anytime you're searching for investors, no matter if the investor goes on the deed or has a mortgage, if the investor is relying on you to make their profits you are considered to be selling a security. The Howey Test set the standard for securities laws in raising money for real estate investments.

Now, the paragraph below the list is a common-sensical way of summing it up for the real-estate-investment community. But for a cryptocurrency, it's misplaced and it's important to know why.

I can certainly see the SEC hauling in a cryptocurrency dev team on Howey-Test grounds by good ol' reasoning-by-analogy. But if they do - unless the cryptocurrency has clearly been designed to be a security and nothing more - I'd fight like hell in any public venue that would have me. And the grounds I'd be fighting on pertain to #4: "which depends solely on the efforts of a promoter or third party."

"which depends solely on the efforts of a promoter or third party." That solely flat-out contradicts the open-source nature of cryptocurrency - not in the sense of the underlying tech, but in the sense of the open-source nature of a cryptocurrency's ecosystem and value growth. In order for a grass-roots cryptocurrency to grow in value, there have to be independent actors building value by layering services on top of the crypto. It could be something as rinky-dinky as someone offering to sell his Etsyeque creations for a cryptocurrency, but even rinkity-dinkity actions like that cohere to the open-source ecosystem vision. Even if they add zero demand for the cryptocurrency, they're priceless in terms of effort. Why? because they're living examples of the open-source nature of ecosystem growth.

The Supreme Court decided the way it did because J. Howey & Co. actively discouraged independent efforts in their promotional materials. Put another way, J. Howey & Co. actively encouraged the buyers of their orange-grove lots to sit on their behinds and leave the profit-gathering to J. Howey et. al. as managers. With respect to the typical cryptocurrency, that part of the test is either inapplicable or the diametrical opposite. Which dev team would not be delighted if a business-savvy independent built a viable business using the dev team's cryptocurrency? This is the equivalent of J. Howey asking the buyers of his land to manage the orange groves independently and share any orange-growing tricks they come up with. Had he done that, I don't see how he could have lost his case.

If the SEC wins a Howey-Test case against a cryptocurrency, it will have succeeded in ramming a spike through the brain of the entire altcoin space. After a decision like that, us altcoineers will be essentially condemned to being the Phineas Gages of fintech: running around in a short-term way playing with our digitized answer to penny stocks. The dream of building a new economy through independent efforts will have been squished to death by that iron spike.

Let me give an example of how different the altcoin ecosystem is from the regular business world. Some time ago, I walked to a Home Depot outlet early in the morning to take photos of the goods they had on their shelves. I came across their Internet affiliate program and got the idea that I could use their shelf-stock as underlying data to build a better Website and/or app: it would have paid for itself by affiliate sales. This endeavour started off well - I hit it off with at least one member of the floor staff - until I bumped into a rule-enforcing kind of gal employee who told me that I was not allowed to take pictures of the stock because I wasn't an employee. I was actually surprised, surprised enough to look at her blankly before explaining that I was collaborating with Home Depot. I was only taking pictures so as to take quickie "notes" on what their stock was, for the purpose of driving more folks to spend money on Home Depot's goods. That chivvying moved her not at all; she replied that she had asked the store manager and he had backed her up. "Company policy." She did say I could write Home Depot's corporate office to ask for special permission. So I did, and I never got back a reply.

This little experience of mine shows how profoundly different the space 'round here is from the regular listed-company world. I've been so long in this space, hearing "corporate policy means you can't do such-and-such" actually baffled me for a moment. "Whut? I'm tryin' ta help ya out here."

Had Home Depot had a cryptocurrencyesque management, the store manager would have clapped me on the back and encouraged me! Even if that idea of mine sunk into the netherworld of unpopular affiliate Sites, whose nether is legion, he still would have given me props for trying.

Okay: I know that very few people do take matters into their own hands with respect to building ecosystems. We're all creatures of habit, even us altcoineers, so naturally we've all fallen into the habit of seeing and treating an altcoin as if it were a penny stock: a vehicle which first you plop your money into and then sit on your duff waiting for a capital gain. I'm like that myself; I really am. I admit it.

But habits can be broken, albeit slowly. Getting over them, hard as it is to do, is much, much easier than it is to break a mandate from a regulatory agency designed to monitor stocks & bonds exerting its authority over something new and profoundly, if subtly, different than the instruments which that agency was designed to oversee.

That's why - even if the SEC landed on a questionable cryptocurrency using the Howey Test as its theory - I'd fight it like hell in the "court of public opinion" unless it were a Paycoin-like scam - one where the dev make a promise that was supposed to be made good from his own funds - or a Ponzi scheme where the dev claimed a backing that wasn't there. Both of these cases are so obviously similar to penny-stock crookery, the SEC can do what it pleases with those jokers as far as I'm concerned. I'd just stand up if they went after a real cryptocurrency, even a questionable one, whose value-growth depends upon independent action even if incentivized. That type of crackdown would crush the independent-action value-growth track of cryptocurrency's unique "open-source ecosystem" growth.

Granted, it's a hard vision for even us folks to pick up and assimilate. It took me a long time for my old speculator's habits to erode to the point where I could "see" the ecosystem vision. But the point is, there's no regulation or mandate that forbids me from not only "seeing" it but also pitching in. If the SEC wins one of those against-the-crypto-vision cases, there will be.

Like many of my posts here, this is prolly half-baked: with respect to semantic content, I'm not a good self-editor. But I hope it's baked enough to get this very important point across: The open-source nature of cryptocurrency ecosystems means that a cryptocurrency is not a listed company. Treating it so in law would fatally cripple its "brain."

In closing, to A-mint, I want to say: "I disagree with what you said, but I'm damn glad you said it!" This overhanging issue needs to be tackled before we-all get snarled up into trouble.

----------

EDIT: X-posted here for the benefit of americanpegasus.     






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January 16, 2016, 02:02:12 AM
 #229

...

Very well put. The primary regulatory risk for a crypro currency in the United States comes from FinCEN when that crypto currecny does not meet the definition of:
Quote
c. De-Centralized Virtual Currencies

A final type of convertible virtual currency activity involves a de-centralized convertible virtual currency (1) that has no central repository and no single administrator, and (2) that persons may obtain by their own computing or manufacturing effort.
as per the FinCEN guidance https://www.fincen.gov/statutes_regs/guidance/html/FIN-2013-G001.html. It does not come from the SEC.

Strict POW coins where the emission is only generated by mining such as Bitcoin, Dogecoin, Litecoin, Monero etc., likely fall into the de-centralized convertible virtual currency category. Anything with a pre-mine or distribution by a centralized source will likely fall in to the centralized convertible virtual currency category and would require registration as an MSB.

As for Dash the key question in my mind is: Do the Masternode operators have to register as MSBs? This is far from clear since in many ways Dash straddles between the centralized and de-centralized convertible virtual currency categories. The status of Dash here is far from clear and would likely require getting a ruling from FinCEN.

Concerned that blockchain bloat will lead to centralization? Storing less than 4 GB of data once required the budget of a superpower and a warehouse full of punched cards. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/IBM_card_storage.NARA.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card
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January 17, 2016, 04:44:25 PM
Last edit: January 17, 2016, 06:28:31 PM by bigrcanada
 #230

Holy shit ICEBREAKER... Really?  Roll Eyes

I get rideing on another currencies coat tails seems like a great marketing idea,  though it hasn't seemed to help thus far.  I would suggest instead marketing your currency by being transparent who the individuals are behind your currency and create a marketing/development budget to get the word out.

The amount of energy you guys spend on focusing on us is certainly flattering, but not productive for your currency.   

Like they say... The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

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January 18, 2016, 04:19:32 PM
 #231

Why we have here such antagonizam between Dash and Monero?
Can we see some cooperation in future? 
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January 18, 2016, 08:03:07 PM
 #232

Eternal war between dash and xmr Smiley
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January 19, 2016, 12:58:59 AM
 #233

looks like we are holding at 0.012 and something

Or not...



...and for my next trick, I'll be pumping Dash.

You pumped Dash into the ground.  Good job!


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Monero
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whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
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January 19, 2016, 11:26:51 AM
 #234

I don't need to choose dash or moreno bought coins are good and have very strong communities. .
I have both of them right now and will sell on high..and again.
Just create some kind of alliance and promote together like ANON GROUP.
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January 19, 2016, 03:17:12 PM
 #235

Monero is better than Dash, Dashcoin is not enough developed I think  Wink
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January 19, 2016, 07:18:45 PM
 #236

Holy shit ICEBREAKER... Really?   Angry



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"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
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January 23, 2016, 08:36:37 AM
 #237

Evidence that Evan dumped 50K?
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January 23, 2016, 08:44:52 AM
 #238

Evidence that Evan dumped 50K?

Inferred from the fact of his instamine and timing of his Evolution hype cycle.


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"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine
whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." 
David Chaum 1996
"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect."  Adam Back 2014
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Buy XMR with fiat
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January 23, 2016, 01:44:01 PM
 #239

Well, I also think, that Monero is better than DASH  Wink DASH transaction network can have some problems or may be it is not yet developed  Wink
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January 23, 2016, 09:42:11 PM
 #240

After learning that all my mined monero coins are practically unspendable because the pool paid me out in small amounts says alot about monero!

Its total crap if they cant design it to work with small amounts properly, never had this issue with BTC, NXT< NEM etc.


DASH is still an instamined scam though.

NEM, THE SECURE, SCALABLE BLOCKCHAIN [NEM.IO] [T.ME/NEMRED]
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