DASH Collapsing Monero UP

[Hueristic]

No, that was disclosed 2 more like 11 months ago, it was reopened and resolved 2 months ago. I can see how this stuff can become confusing.

monero
Locked_Transfer functional burning

    By keejef to Monero
    Resolved
    High

disclosed 2 months ago

And was resolved.

This will also affect all Cryptonote coins with locked_transfer and exchanges that use show_transfers

https://hackerone.com/reports/417515

Initially it was almost a year ago reported and not deemed a bug, here is fp's comment on it.

fluffypony posted a comment.
Oct 3rd (11 months ago)

Hi - I'll type something up and send it to the mailing list; the locktime stuff is pretty well-known as it affects Bitcoin-based cryptocurrencies as well. A key difference is that with Bitcoin the locktime doesn't let it enter a block until that height, whereas with Monero it goes into a block but can't be redeemed to that height. In both instances they are valid transactions that can be used to socially engineer someone if they're not paying attention.

Your probably confused as it got reopened so it could be marked as patched as another code change covered it as well.

    Referencing https://hackerone.com/reports/592094
    Referencing https://hackerone.com/reports/417515

anonimal closed the report and changed the status to Resolved.
Jul 3rd (2 months ago)

Hi again @keejef, this report has been more appropriately resolved in https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/5701. Thank you for the friendly report.

So your chasing ghosts.


But keep trying, i'm sure you are scaring some N00bs into buying your premined scamcoin Dash.

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[qwizzie]

So your chasing ghosts.

Am i chasing ghosts though ? And has it actually been resolved ? keejef's comment was first marked as "Informative" but essentially not a bug.
Then it was deemed as valuable enough information that needed to be put in a readme.md on Github, which was merged into
Monero's master 29 days ago. Merging something into a readme.md on Github is of course not the same as actually putting out a
code fix to this locktime vulnerability. It just means that you hope people read that readme.md and behave correctly and hope that exchanges
pay attention to the email that was sent to them (i call this shifting responsebility to users and exchanges), it however does nothing against
that locktime vulnerability.

Let me repeat that locktime vulnerability according Monero's own readme.md on Github :

### Blockchain-based
Certain blockchain "features" can be considered "bugs" if misused correctly. Consequently, please consider the following:

- When receiving monero, be aware that it may be locked for an arbitrary time if the sender elected to, preventing you from spending that
  monero until the lock time expires. You may want to hold off acting upon such a transaction until the unlock time lapses. To get a sense of
  that time, you can consider the remaining blocktime until unlock as seen in the `show_transfers` command.

The problem with this is that every single Monero transaction needs to be thoroughly checked on suspicious locktime activity by its
receivers, which directly undermines Monero's trustless transaction capability. Why not remove/change this locktime or put a hardcap on it ?
(to be automatically unlocked after x number of blocks). Or change it to how Bitcoin handles it ?

A key difference is that with Bitcoin the locktime doesn't let it enter a block until that height, whereas with Monero it goes into a
block but can't be redeemed to that height.

 
On second thought maybe its better that Monero keeps this vulnerability in its code, makes it that much more easy for competing
cryptoprojects to point this out... yeah, lets forget about this whole thing.

There is indeed really no need to change anything, i'm sure users will all read that readme.md on Github and behave perfectly correct
and exchanges will ofcourse be more then happy to check each and every Monero transaction on this locktime vulnerability.

Sorry for the off topic route here, i promise from now on it will all be about price, price and price.

[Hueristic]

So your chasing ghosts.

Am i chasing ghosts though ? And has it actually been resolved ? keejef's comment was first marked as "Informative" but essentially not a bug.
Then it was deemed as valuable enough information that needed to be put in a readme.md on Github, which was merged into
Monero's master 29 days ago. Merging something into a readme.md on Github is of course not the same as actually putting out a
code fix to this locktime vulnerability. It just means that you hope people read that readme.md and behave correctly and hope that exchanges
pay attention to the email that was sent to them (i call this shifting responsebility to users and exchanges), it however does nothing against
that locktime vulnerability.

Let me repeat that locktime vulnerability according Monero's own readme.md on Github :

### Blockchain-based
Certain blockchain "features" can be considered "bugs" if misused correctly. Consequently, please consider the following:

- When receiving monero, be aware that it may be locked for an arbitrary time if the sender elected to, preventing you from spending that
  monero until the lock time expires. You may want to hold off acting upon such a transaction until the unlock time lapses. To get a sense of
  that time, you can consider the remaining blocktime until unlock as seen in the `show_transfers` command.

The problem with this is that every single Monero transaction needs to be thoroughly checked on suspicious locktime activity by its
receivers, which directly undermines Monero's trustless transaction capability. Why not remove/change this locktime or put a hardcap on it ?
(to be automatically unlocked after x number of blocks). Or change it to how Bitcoin handles it ?

A key difference is that with Bitcoin the locktime doesn't let it enter a block until that height, whereas with Monero it goes into a
block but can't be redeemed to that height.

 
On second thought maybe its better that Monero keeps this vulnerability in its code, makes it that much more easy for competing
cryptoprojects to point this out... yeah, lets forget about this whole thing.

There is indeed really no need to change anything, i'm sure users will all read that readme.md on Github and behave perfectly correct
and exchanges will ofcourse be more then happy to check each and every Monero transaction on this locktime vulnerability.

Sorry for the off topic route here, i promise from now on it will all be about price, price and price.

Obviously your reading comprehension is not your strong point so I will ELI5 it for you..

Bug reported not deemed worthy of patch due to not actually being a bug.

Patch for something else comes out that changes code so the original complaint of "locktime vulnerability" is no longer even possible for Morons to be effected.

Team reactivates initial report in order to close it and marked as fixed for informative purposes.

I know that is tough for you to grasp as Dash doesn't even bother with code reviews or documenting attack vectors but this is what a serious project does. Mayne Evan should take notes.


The amusing thing about this is the retarded shills like you trying to use this as if it's a conspiracy when it is absolutely non-existant as far as a bug and never was.

You really should stop as your just embarrassing yourself.

[qwizzie]

As promised lets forget about Monero's official Github readme.md, the one that specifically warns users how a certain blockchain "feature''  can be abused
as a bug if misused correctly (most hackers have a tendency to misuse things correctly by the way) for now and just focus on the price.

I made two 1W Poloniex charts, one for Dash and one for Monero. Poloniex is not mainly used
anymore by both cryptocurrencies, but has due to its early listing of both coins a longer history, which benefits longterm charts.  

Dash



Both the MACD and the RSI look promising, i suspect a new longterm uptrend is forming right now. Also notice how the MACD seems
to be showing weaker sell pressure over time.

Monero



Both the MACD and the RSI are showing bearish signs and i suspect a testing of the 0.0068 price range is not far off.
If that support breaks, there will be another huge downward correction. Which will bring the price more in line with its pre-pump 2017 position.

Here is a brainstormer : what if the whales intention is to bring all altcoins back to their pre-pump 2017 position, how would coinmarketcap then look like ?
And remember Dash already is at pre-pump 2017 position right now, as it was hit first and hardest.

[Hueristic]

And remember Dash already is at pre-pump 2017 position right now, as it was hit first and hardest.

Thats because that artificial pump was started with the liquidation of 500 masternodes and that shit is just not sustainable. But I'm sure the whale that did that got his pound of flesh from the mindless morons that don't research and thought it was organic growth. lol

Either way with institutional investment all alts are in a long winter but My money is on Monero holding the best and recovering first when the dust settles and when.



And Darkcoin as well. Lol

[qwizzie]

Is it me or is the Dash price wayyy UP lately ?  
I guess it pays to have a good reputation with regards to code development (no lingering security vulnerabilities
that intentionally remain not-fixed like with Monero), integrations and having a very active growing global community.
Makes integration with large exchanges, merchants and forming strategic partnerships that much more easy.

I wonder what the activation of the Dash pairs (Dash/USD and Dash/BTC) on Coinbase Pro on tuesday will further
do to its price. Now if i could only find a nice picture of a kangeroo eating popcorn..

And with regards to loosing 500 masternodes explaining the price decline, Dash is currently at 4963 active masternodes
and has an ATH of 4969, so i'm not sure where you got that data. Maybe that drop in number can be explained as
the result of updating our masternode network to the deterministic masternodes network, but that of course does
not mean 500 masternodes were sold. They just needed to update either their hardware or their software.
 
Its so easy to make wild accussations these days on the internet  

[rodel caling]

Is it me or is the Dash price wayyy UP lately ?  
I guess it pays to have a good reputation with regards to code development (no lingering security vulnerabilities
that intentionally remain not-fixed like with Monero), integrations and having a very active growing global community.
Makes integration with large exchanges, merchants and forming strategic partnerships that much more easy.

I wonder what the activation of the Dash pairs (Dash/USD and Dash/BTC) on Coinbase Pro on monday will further
do to its price. Now if i could only find a nice picture of a kangeroo eating popcorn..

Good news for DASH it's proven nothing steady the whells are circle sometimes we need to accept price up and down depends on the demands of each coins in the market but of course with the help of the team devs that is one of the reason coins will potentially to growth.

[qwizzie]

Is it me or is the Dash price wayyy UP lately ?  
I guess it pays to have a good reputation with regards to code development (no lingering security vulnerabilities
that intentionally remain not-fixed like with Monero), integrations and having a very active growing global community.
Makes integration with large exchanges, merchants and forming strategic partnerships that much more easy.

I wonder what the activation of the Dash pairs (Dash/USD and Dash/BTC) on Coinbase Pro on tuesday will further
do to its price. Now if i could only find a nice picture of a kangeroo eating popcorn..

And with regards to loosing 500 masternodes explaining the price decline, Dash is currently at 4963 active masternodes
and has an ATH of 4969, so i'm not sure where you got that data. Maybe that drop in number can be explained as
the result of updating our masternode network to the deterministic masternodes network, but that of course does
not mean 500 masternodes were sold. They just needed to update either their hardware or their software.
 
Its so easy to make wild accussations these days on the internet  

Good news for DASH it's proven nothing steady the whells are circle sometimes we need to accept price up and down depends on the demands of each coins in the market but of course with the help of the team devs that is one of the reason coins will potentially to growth.

Yep, i agree with you there buddy. Having a capable core development group / devs is a key factor.

[qwizzie]

One would think that after noticing this thread has no longer a Monero-controlled narrative, Monero 'fans' would find it in their own interest to stop bumping this thread with easily detectable and easily disprovable anti-Dash fud. Specially in a time that Dash is getting UP on a daily basis, with regards to price and integrations.

I guess some of them have not reached that insight yet.  

[Febo]

Is it me or is the Dash price wayyy UP lately ?  

One would think that after noticing this thread has no longer a Monero-controlled narrative, Monero 'fans' would find it in their own interest to stop bumping this thread with easily detectable and easily disprovable anti-Dash fud. Specially in a time that Dash is getting UP on a daily basis, with regards to price and integrations.

To me it seems that market is totally same as the title of this thread

 Man is fun to chit chat with people that imagine things and see them totally differently then everyone else. But not over 5 years. Then it gets boring. Trust me no one wants to argue with you or few minded like you. Just read what you wrote. "Monero-controlled narrative"   There is no one beside you and your friends that believes that a Crypto currency Monero so a code or mathematics is controlling DASH price and makes it worth less and less daily. Conversations ends totally pointless. Constant provocations and then crying when calling you out. Never accept the reality.  While on other hand no one really care about just another Bitcoin clone. There are 10000 of them.

[qwizzie]

Is it me or is the Dash price wayyy UP lately ?  

Just read what you wrote. "Monero-controlled narrative"  There is no one beside you and your friends that believes that a Crypto currency
Monero so a code or mathematics is controlling DASH price and makes it worth less and less daily.

Of course i dont believe that and i never posted anything that even remotely resembles that. When i mentioned the "Monero-controlled narrative"
i ment of course iCEBREAKER's history of deleting any pro Dash post in here. Nothing more and nothing less. I thought that was pretty obvious.
This means posts got pretty one-sided in this thread, untill he disappeared. Next time pls drink some coffee before commenting Febo, thanks.

Wow, look at all that Dash traded volume  

Lets compare Dash with Monero on a few key factors :

Dash UP :

- Higher Price
- Higher Volume
- Higher number of Transactions
- Higher number of Integrations
- Higher Project Development
- Higher Reputation
- Higher Hash Rate / Higher Network Strength
- Higher Protection against 51% attacks
- Higher Speed of its transactions / Higher Protection against double spending of its transactions


Monero UP :

- Higher Marketcap
- Higher number of Not-Fixed High Severity Security Vulnerabilities (Monero locktime issue, only addressed in a readme.md on Github and an email to exchanges)
- Higher number of Botnets / Malware / Hard forks (to prevent ASIC miners, while at the same time there is a growing realisation among even Monero developers
  that this is most likely unstoppable in the long term)
- Higher Supply issued (Monero 76,6% / Dash 51,36%) while both coins were pretty much launched around the same time (Dash a little bit earlier then Monero i think)

Also having Dash added to Coinbase Pro hardly indicates a collapsing of Dash (sorry Icey). Anyone thinking that Dash is about to collapse will be in for
a really brutal shock soon.  

Keep the bumps coming guys, this is great. Also i want to thank iCEBREAKER for changing this moderated thread into a non-moderated thread by his absence.
Us Dash fans really appreciate it.  👍

To conclude i want to congratz Monero with its transition from a trustless network (trustless means no need to place any trust into it) to a trusted network
(trusted in this case means Monero users have to trust their transactions are not locktime manipulated by the sender).
You dont see  cryptoprojects changing from trustless to trusted that often (its pretty rare actually).

[LucyLovesCrypto]

Lets hope the scammer down, competent development up trend continues in 2020!
DASH collapsing:

"Evolution" years behind

Evan jumping ship and shuttering "DASH Labs"

CEO Ryan discussing changing emission schedule and block rewards while ignoring the small number of DASH "devs" that have skills other than copy, paste and rebrand

Monero up:

RandomPoW a massive success increasing decentralization and bricking Bitmain (the same company that broke DASH's "ASIC resistance" and centralized DASH mining)

More volunteer devs joining the ecosystem with growing awareness at DEFCON, C3 and among Arch Linux users:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/cqegma/monero_village_defcon_2019_report/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/efuoxq/monero_at_the_36c3_chaos_communication_congress/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/eap47a/monero_is_now_available_in_the_arch_repositories/

[qwizzie]

Monero UP :

* Hacked official Monero website, including installed coin-stealing malware. No explanation has been given about this hack. Most likely inside job.

Link : https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/11/official-monero-website-is-hacked-to-deliver-currency-stealing-malware/

* Not-fixed high vulnerability Monero time-lock issue, an exploit where senders can timelock their transactions so receivers can not spend that transaction.

Link : https://github.com/monero-project/monero/blob/master/README.md



I am just glad Dash is not UP with those kind of security issues.




Maybe this is a good time to look at the number of transactions of both Dash and Monero network-wide and see who is UP there :



oh my  

[codecaffeinecode]

Do you think a fork would a DASH fork be helpful or harmful in stopping the collapse of DASH relative to its peers?

I would welcome a fork. I don't think the idea deserves the hysterical response given by some on here. The days of fork fear meaning doomsday for a project should be past us now. Bitcoin hasn't suffered as many feared, it has had numerous forks by now.


Everyone must acknowledge Ryan's proposal has a real (not imagined) risk that it could be wrong. I am sure Ryan himself would admit this possibility even if he thinks it remote
  

In the event of a fork

Ryans idea of altering block rewards can be tested in BOTH directions, sliding the scale towards more proof of work and in the 'main' fork more proof of stake as per the current proposal
ALL dash investors would receive both types of Dash. You lose nothing.
ALL masternode owners get to run masternodes on both forks. You gain masternodes
ALL dash investors get a chance to 'vote' by exchanging  one type for the other if they wish
THE market can decide where the value flows
Valuable information learned about crypto/masternode economics
Lots of publicity.

[codecaffeinecode]

DASH has performed better than most Proof of Stake coins over the years. Is moving slowly in that direction by reducing payments to the miners that secure the DASH network a mistake?  I understand the desire to stop the bleeding in terms of market value, but the truth is many other projects have done worse than DASH. Is making some masternode owners happy with a pay raise really worth the long term risk to network security? Chainlocks are not bulletproof as the recent stress test proved:
https://www.reddit.com/r/DashUncensored/comments/fjugrp/dashs_chainlocks_and_instantsend_were_just_taken/

So far Dash is managing to stay in the proof of work category of coins (although not holding a high enough ranking as it should have), this is quite remarkable considering how economically Dash already has large proof of stake component. We are just about getting away with it at the moment. But if we move further towards proof of stake, how long until we are valued as proof of stake ?

https://www.tradingview.com/x/9Slus40n/

[mathgal23]

I dont think the mining supply redistribution is aimed at improving long term sustainability. In my opinion it is more possible that Ryan Taylor and other DCG insiders are using this and promises of "DASH Platform (Evolution rebrand) soon" as an attempt to pump the price once more before selling their coins and quitting (to avoid being fired for years of poor performance after Evan Duffield left).

If you follow the DASH forums, it appears that community members have given up competing with Monero (privacy by default) long ago.  Currently the DASH community worried about other opt in (and rarely used) privacy projects like Zcash passing them in the MC rankings.  Decred with technically superior governance model will likely pass DASH in the MC rankings at some point.  As blockchain users become better educated, marketing based on feature copying/re-branding from DASH loses its appeal.  The pace of the DASH network collapse will only increase if the recent DCG proposal to reallocate rewards away from miners is successful.

[qwizzie]

Reddit DashUncensored is a Monero-initiated Reddit troll thread, designed to troll Dash.
It has been created by dnale0r ((https://www.reddit.com/user/dnale0r/), who is not only a known Monero fanatic but also a known troll. I know the troll part of him not only by this forum but also because
i met him once at the Bitcoin conference in 2015 in The Netherlands, where he was trying discredit Dash during a Dash presentation. Which means he is both a forum troll and a troll out there in the real world.  

Be aware of people referencing Reddit DashUncensored and be aware of the tone of discussions taking place there.
It is just a Reddit thread that Monero community members like to use to discredit Dash.
You will find few facts there, just a whole lot of Monero-driven opinions about Dash.