Hitler vs. Stalin

[Nemo1024]

Count me out, as well as a millions of former Soviet citizens, whose families were touched by repressions.

Btw, Stalin aside, there is a discomforting parallel between Hitler professing Germans as the superior race and Obama professing America as an exceptional nation...

 I was sort of generalizing. There were a few opinion polls conducted in Russia, Belarus, Ukraine (before the civil war), Kazakhstan.etc, which showed good support for Stalin.

Yes, I know. The problem is that people are confusing Stalin-the-icon (a symbol of relative prosperity/stability, low corruption and criminality, and of respect on international arena) and Stalin-the-person (a ruthless authoritarian, who infamously proclaimed that deaths of a million people is just a static). In those polls it is the former concept that is winning, especially when present Russia's international status and social turmoil are set as a contrast.

[Souldream]

Where is Poutine ?

[bryant.coleman]

Where is Poutine ?

Where is Porky? Hiding in the toilet to escape from the hired goons of Ihor Kolomoyskyi?

With inflation nearing triple digits (within an year!) and Hryvnia losing as much as 70% of its value, the only option left for Western Ukrainians like you is to mass-migrate to some other country in search of livelihood. The EU will not welcome them. The only option left is Russia. 

Yes, I know. The problem is that people are confusing Stalin-the-icon (a symbol of relative prosperity/stability, low corruption and criminality, and of respect on international arena) and Stalin-the-person (a ruthless authoritarian, who infamously proclaimed that deaths of a million people is just a static). In those polls it is the former concept that is winning, especially when present Russia's international status and social turmoil are set as a contrast.

Hmm... Those people who suffered terribly during the reign of the drunkard Yelstin might consider Stalin to be a hero. To tell the truth, Stalin murdered far fewer people when compared to Yeltsin.

[Nemo1024]

Where is Poutine ?

Where is Porky? Hiding in the toilet to escape from the hired goons of Ihor Kolomoyskyi?

With inflation nearing triple digits (within an year!) and Hryvnia losing as much as 70% of its value, the only option left for Western Ukrainians like you is to mass-migrate to some other country in search of livelihood. The EU will not welcome them. The only option left is Russia.  

Oh, you should indulge souldream in his Putin-fixation.  
By the way, maybe he can call the direct line to Putin, that's been opened today, in preparation for the live televised Q&A with Putin on the 16th of April. That's a unique practise, not to be found in any other country, where citizens can ask questions to the country's President directly, send photos of problem areas, etc.

And there's an app for Android devices too
http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150408/1020636795.html

...

He added the application is compatible with all major operating systems, including Android, Apple and Windows. Those wishing to contact the president can do so via Facebook and local social networks, as well as by SMS, MMS and telephone.

"Questions will be accepted until the last moment of the 'Direct Line'," Peskov added.

Putin's hotlines have become a well-established tradition throughout the years of his presidency. The first live session was held in April 2001. Their duration has been increasing steadily over recent years, with the 2013 conference lasting a record 4 hours 47 minutes. The last hotline in 2014 lasted 3 hours 55 minutes and centered around the Ukrainian crisis.

[xanhbleih]

Where is Poutine ?

Where is Porky? Hiding in the toilet to escape from the hired goons of Ihor Kolomoyskyi?

With inflation nearing triple digits (within an year!) and Hryvnia losing as much as 70% of its value, the only option left for Western Ukrainians like you is to mass-migrate to some other country in search of livelihood. The EU will not welcome them. The only option left is Russia.  

Oh, you should indulge souldream in his Putin-fixation.  
By the way, maybe he can call the direct line to Putin, that's been opened today, in preparation for the live televised Q&A with Putin on the 16th of April. That's a unique practise, not to be found in any other country, where citizens can ask questions to the country's President directly, send photos of problem areas, etc.

And there's an app for Android devices too
http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150408/1020636795.html

...

He added the application is compatible with all major operating systems, including Android, Apple and Windows. Those wishing to contact the president can do so via Facebook and local social networks, as well as by SMS, MMS and telephone.

"Questions will be accepted until the last moment of the 'Direct Line'," Peskov added.

Putin's hotlines have become a well-established tradition throughout the years of his presidency. The first live session was held in April 2001. Their duration has been increasing steadily over recent years, with the 2013 conference lasting a record 4 hours 47 minutes. The last hotline in 2014 lasted 3 hours 55 minutes and centered around the Ukrainian crisis.

That's a nice idea. But it raises questions about how they choose questions and such. Is there a video online of the event?

[hmblm1245]

What about Hitler vs Vader?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpqNvskS_kM

[Nemo1024]

That's a nice idea. But it raises questions about how they choose questions and such. Is there a video online of the event?

You can read more about it here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1028354.0

[Aggressor66]

Hitler was in power for 12 years and Stalin for 21 - trying to calculate how many people WOULD have been killed under Hitler had he been in power for another 10 years would be merely speculative and impossible to assess, given the unpredictable nature of warfare.
So it probably is not useful to judge who is 'worse' in terms how how many were murdered under their respective regimes - if Hitler had had another 10 years he might have killed twice as many people, or more. The fact that he was not given the opportunity does not make him any less evil.

Hitler murdered people because of their race, physical disabilities (mental and physical) and their political behaviour. Relatively speaking, Stalin murdered people indiscriminately, based on his paranoia. I don't think there is an objective answer as to which is 'worse' in this case. It could be argued that Hitler was worse because he followed a rigorously crude, barbaric and highly perverse ideology that led to the deaths of millions of people; it could be argued that Stalin was worse because he did not impose such a rigid ideology, but merely wanted to dispose of ANY 'anti-Soviet' elements.

Any murder is evil - to speak of it in terms of statistics, I believe, trivialises the huge suffering borne by each individual.

[cryptocoiner]

...
This was the world facing those in Central and Eastern Europe in the 1930s.  What a choice…as if anyone living there had much of a choice.

Hitler significantly consolidated power in 1933.  The Reichstag fire, election victories (thanks to the support of the German communists, on orders from Stalin), the first concentration camps, an enabling act allowing Hitler to rule by decree.  All big news throughout the western world, compared to the minor news item of the millions killed by the intentional famines and deportations occurring in the Soviet Union at the same time.

Internationally, Stalin was given a pass: “…with the help of many sympathizers abroad….”  Hitler was confronted with “voices of criticism and outrage.”  This at a time when the deaths attributable to Stalin’s policies were infinitely greater than those attributable to Hitler’s.
...

More...[/email]]https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/03/bionic-mosquito/hitler-vs-stalin/[email][/email]

Wrong choice. I would vote for democracy. Or anarchy. Or whatever. But not communizm or nacizm. They both are shit. Totalitarizm are totally uncool. =)

[bryant.coleman]

Hitler was in power for 12 years and Stalin for 21 - trying to calculate how many people WOULD have been killed under Hitler had he been in power for another 10 years would be merely speculative and impossible to assess, given the unpredictable nature of warfare.

Imagine what would have happened if the Nazis had been victorious in the WW2. Entire ethnic groups would have been wiped out. Ethnic groups such as Serbs, Poles, Bulgarians, Romanians, Czechs, Greeks.etc would have become extinct by now. Not only the Nazis, their allies (esp. the Japs) were also involved in ethnic cleansing. The Japs would have exterminated the native populations of China, South-east Asia, Pacific, and South Asia had they won the war.

[Aggressor66]

Hitler was in power for 12 years and Stalin for 21 - trying to calculate how many people WOULD have been killed under Hitler had he been in power for another 10 years would be merely speculative and impossible to assess, given the unpredictable nature of warfare.

Imagine what would have happened if the Nazis had been victorious in the WW2. Entire ethnic groups would have been wiped out. Ethnic groups such as Serbs, Poles, Bulgarians, Romanians, Czechs, Greeks.etc would have become extinct by now. Not only the Nazis, their allies (esp. the Japs) were also involved in ethnic cleansing. The Japs would have exterminated the native populations of China, South-east Asia, Pacific, and South Asia had they won the war.

I would be probably writing this in German  

An excellent "what-if" by Robert Harris (Fatherland). It's a sort of conspiracy, noirish, crime story, set in a world where Nazi Germany pretty much won the war. There is a great deal (and a cool map!) about what a victorious Nazi Germany would look like and their place in the world.

[bryant.coleman]

I think that a Hitler victory would have been better than the USSR victory, those Russians dint even had respect for their own people, their own citizens, what do you think the USSR could have done to other countries without the NATO pressure after WW2.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If you think that exterminating certain ethnic groups (Slavs, Jews, Roma, Greeks.etc) is preferable when compared to a few decades of communism, then I'll disagree. Under the Soviet rule, countries such as Latvia, Lithuania, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, and Moldova got transformed from underdeveloped isolated regions to industrial heartlands. Under the Nazi rule, the local population in these nations might have got exterminated, with ethnic Germans replacing them.

[no-ice-please]

Yes there are a lot of lies and half-truths. With regards to Stalin, I can say based on the tragic experience of my own family, that neither Gulag, nor the famine are hoaxes. And virtually every family in the former USSR has been touched by that.

Regarding famine. The hoax that was propagated over the last 20 years is that it was created specifically to target Ukraine. Famine covered large part of Russia and Ukraine, and the death toll was largest in Central Russia. My great-great-grandmother died of hunger in those years - and that branch of my family is from Southern Siberia. Famine was triggered by mismanagement of resources, by the need to industrialise and by USSR's dependence on imports - At that time Western countries refused to sell industrial items for Russian gold, but accepted grain.

Gulag. My great-grandmother, grandmother, her sister and her brother suffered through that system of forced-labour camps, put there on false accusations, and rehabilitated only after Stalin's death. Only my grandmother survived.

Are you saying western countries assisted in the famine? It wouldn't surprize me but I didn't know that.

[bryant.coleman]

Ja, it is clear. Mein greatest blunder was das pakt with Stalin breaking. Without that, Western Europe under Nazi rule could have been a truly great empire instead of the mongrel continent it is today.

Dear Adolph. Yes, attacking the USSR was your biggest blunder. Perhaps you got a bit overzealous, probably as a result of the easy victories which you had in France, Belgium.etc. Had you controlled yourself, then the entire Western Europe would have been speaking German now. Queen Elizabeth would have named her first child Adolph instead of Charles. London would have been renamed as Sachsenburg. What more... the British would have been eating Blutwurst and Sauerbraten instead of Apple pie and Fish & Chips. Sausages (especially the dick-shaped ones) would have been named as the national dish of England.

But still... you went on to attack that damned Stalin. Du bist ein Dummkopf. Mehr Glück nächstes Mal!  

[maku]

This discussion about who was worst can go for ages but there is one significant difference between those two. Hitler wanted to make Aryan race dominant so he was doing everything to achieve that (witch include killing German Jews and German communists). Stalin on the other was almost everyone even his own people (even those who were not a threat)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

[bryant.coleman]

Ja. It is true that western countries played a large role in the famines. But this truth disguises the deeper truth: the Zionists occupying those western governments were the real cause. Zionists starved millions of Ukraines. And why? Aus the same as always mit die Juden: Geld.

Only around one-third of those died in the great famine were Ukrainian. The remainder were from Russia, Belarus, and Kazakhstan. Also, the mastermind behind the famine was Jewish. His name was Henrikh Yagoda. Check this article:

http://davidduke.com/do-you-recognize-this-man-he-was-one-of-the-greatest-mass-m urderers-of-all-time/