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Author Topic: Bitcoin Project will be making a major announcement in September  (Read 53284 times)
caveden
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August 18, 2012, 10:34:01 AM
 #121

An affirmative law saying "yes, bitcoin is legal" would be wonderful, would it not?

Not necessarily, no.
First of all, bitcoin is already legal. And besides that, this text shows an example of an activity that is better off in the current prohibition scenario than what it'd be in a legalization scenario. The example in question is prostitution houses in Brazil. They're currently forbidden, but if you want to open one, all you have to do is pay the appropriate bribes to the cops. According to the text author, who happens to have some friends in the business, these bribes are already lower than what taxes alone would be had the activity been legalized. Not to mention stupid licenses, labor laws, regulations etc. And if you think that being prohibited forces these business to be "shady" and dangerous, well, take a look at this or this or this. One of them even has bowling lanes inside! Cheesy

"Legalization" is not always a good thing, because often it comes together with taxation, cumbersome or prohibitive regulations, licenses etc etc. I wouldn't like to see bitcoin transfers crippled with the same kind of AML bullshit that affects fiat transfers, for example.

A good read: Air Guitars and Bitcoin Regulation.
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unclescrooge
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August 18, 2012, 03:07:41 PM
 #122

Bitcoins will be exchanges on the ECN forex network Cheesy
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August 18, 2012, 03:17:54 PM
 #123

At the risk of being called a newb who's too stupid and/or lazy to use the search function correctly (it's a fair cop  Smiley), could someone explain to me what multisig is, how it works, and why it's important (or provide a link)? Thanks!
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August 18, 2012, 03:19:39 PM
 #124

At the risk of being called a newb who's too stupid and/or lazy to use the search function correctly (it's a fair cop  Smiley), could someone explain to me what multisig is, how it works, and why it's important (or provide a link)? Thanks!

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bitcoin+multisig

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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August 18, 2012, 03:56:50 PM
 #125

At the risk of being called a newb who's too stupid and/or lazy to use the search function correctly (it's a fair cop  Smiley), could someone explain to me what multisig is, how it works, and why it's important (or provide a link)? Thanks!

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bitcoin+multisig

You know, I assumed that if I just asked the question, I'd probably end up getting a lmgtfy link or some other snarky non-response.  But I hoped that maybe if I threw in a little self-deprecating humor acknowledging that yes, I should probably be able to find this information on my own, I might get an actual answer.  Obviously that hope was misplaced.   Cry But seriously, I still haven't found a good overview on the subject.  If you know of a link to one that's particularly good, I'd love to see it. 
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August 18, 2012, 04:07:34 PM
 #126

At the risk of being called a newb who's too stupid and/or lazy to use the search function correctly (it's a fair cop  Smiley), could someone explain to me what multisig is, how it works, and why it's important (or provide a link)? Thanks!

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bitcoin+multisig

You know, I assumed that if I just asked the question, I'd probably end up getting a lmgtfy link or some other snarky non-response.  But I hoped that maybe if I threw in a little self-deprecating humor acknowledging that yes, I should probably be able to find this information on my own, I might get an actual answer.  Obviously that hope was misplaced.   Cry But seriously, I still haven't found a good overview on the subject.  If you know of a link to one that's particularly good, I'd love to see it. 

Multisig addresses require m-of-n signatures to spend from.  There are n total keys that can sign, and you need m <= n  of them to successfully spend.  For example, with m = 2 and n = 3 you can do a trade of physical goods with built-in escrow.  The escrow holds one key, and each of the sender and receiver of the good hold the other keys.  The buyer sends his bitcoin to the 2-of-3 address and the seller ships out the goods.  The seller than creates and signs a transaction that spends the coins from the 2-of-3 address to his personal address.  When the buyer receives the goods, he also signs the transaction and the coins are moved.  If there is a dispute, the escrow can either sign the transaction, awarding the coins to the seller, or can ask the buyer to create and sign a transaction that returns the coins to him, and then sign that one.  This can all be done without including the escrow except when necessary as all you need to know is the escrow's public address.  They can have an outstanding offer to settle any disputes provided that if arbitration is necessary they get X BTC (or a %) as a fee.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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August 18, 2012, 04:17:49 PM
 #127

Multisig addresses require m-of-n signatures to spend from.  There are n total keys that can sign, and you need m <= n  of them to successfully spend.  For example, with m = 2 and n = 3 you can do a trade of physical goods with built-in escrow.  The escrow holds one key, and each of the sender and receiver of the good hold the other keys.  The buyer sends his bitcoin to the 2-of-3 address and the seller ships out the goods.  The seller than creates and signs a transaction that spends the coins from the 2-of-3 address to his personal address.  When the buyer receives the goods, he also signs the transaction and the coins are moved.  If there is a dispute, the escrow can either sign the transaction, awarding the coins to the seller, or can ask the buyer to create and sign a transaction that returns the coins to him, and then sign that one.  This can all be done without including the escrow except when necessary as all you need to know is the escrow's public address.  They can have an outstanding offer to settle any disputes provided that if arbitration is necessary they get X BTC (or a %) as a fee.
Thank you for this - it makes a lot more sense now.  It would be nice if there was a short little video on youtube explaining this to the common bitcoin user.

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August 18, 2012, 04:58:32 PM
 #128

Multisig addresses require m-of-n signatures to spend from.  There are n total keys that can sign, and you need m <= n  of them to successfully spend.  For example, with m = 2 and n = 3 you can do a trade of physical goods with built-in escrow.  The escrow holds one key, and each of the sender and receiver of the good hold the other keys.  The buyer sends his bitcoin to the 2-of-3 address and the seller ships out the goods.  The seller than creates and signs a transaction that spends the coins from the 2-of-3 address to his personal address.  When the buyer receives the goods, he also signs the transaction and the coins are moved.  If there is a dispute, the escrow can either sign the transaction, awarding the coins to the seller, or can ask the buyer to create and sign a transaction that returns the coins to him, and then sign that one.  This can all be done without including the escrow except when necessary as all you need to know is the escrow's public address.  They can have an outstanding offer to settle any disputes provided that if arbitration is necessary they get X BTC (or a %) as a fee.
Thank you for this - it makes a lot more sense now.  It would be nice if there was a short little video on youtube explaining this to the common bitcoin user.

There is no UI yet, and the code with the command line support still hasn't been in a release yet.  Give it some time.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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August 18, 2012, 06:00:22 PM
 #129

Multisig addresses require m-of-n signatures to spend from.  There are n total keys that can sign, and you need m <= n  of them to successfully spend.  For example, with m = 2 and n = 3 you can do a trade of physical goods with built-in escrow.  The escrow holds one key, and each of the sender and receiver of the good hold the other keys.  The buyer sends his bitcoin to the 2-of-3 address and the seller ships out the goods.  The seller than creates and signs a transaction that spends the coins from the 2-of-3 address to his personal address.  When the buyer receives the goods, he also signs the transaction and the coins are moved.  If there is a dispute, the escrow can either sign the transaction, awarding the coins to the seller, or can ask the buyer to create and sign a transaction that returns the coins to him, and then sign that one.  This can all be done without including the escrow except when necessary as all you need to know is the escrow's public address.  They can have an outstanding offer to settle any disputes provided that if arbitration is necessary they get X BTC (or a %) as a fee.
Thank you for this - it makes a lot more sense now.  It would be nice if there was a short little video on youtube explaining this to the common bitcoin user.

There is no UI yet, and the code with the command line support still hasn't been in a release yet.  Give it some time.

Or a major announcement  Grin

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August 18, 2012, 08:21:12 PM
 #130

Hmm, my gut reaction is cautious to having scripting within the core bitcoin exchange network especially as the default behavior. Just a bit uneasy at adding such an attack vector.

                                                                               
                
                                                       ╓▄▌██P                  
                                                 ╔▄▌███▀███▌                   
                                           ▄▄▌██▀▀╚  ╓██╩██                    
                                     ▄▄███▀▀╙      ▄██  ▓█                     
                               ▄▌███▀▀+          ▄█▀   ▐█                      
                        ,▄▌███▀▀¬              ▓█▀     █▄                      
                  ,▄▌███▀▀                  ,██▀      █▌                       
               '█████▌▄▄,                 ╓██╩       ██                        
                  ▀██▌▐▀▀▀█████▌▌▄▄╓    ▄██¬        ▄█                         
                     ▀██▄        ╚▀▀▀████          ▐█═                         
                        ▀██▄        ▓█▀██          █▀                          
                           ▀██▄  ,██▀   █µ        ██                           
                              ▀███Z     ██       ██                            
                                ▐██     ▐█      ▄█                             
                              ,,╓╓█▓▄▌   █▌    ▐█U                             
                        º▄▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓███   ▀█    █▌                              
                          ▀█▓▓▓▓▓████▀█▌  █▌  ██                               
                            ▀███████▌  ▀█µ▀█ ██                                
                              ▀█████     ███▓█                                 
                                ▐███      ▀██Ñ                                 
                                            ▀                             

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August 18, 2012, 08:32:43 PM
 #131

Hmm, my gut reaction is cautious to having scripting within the core bitcoin exchange network especially as the default behavior. Just a bit uneasy at adding such an attack vector.

Um.... it has always had scripting.  The changes for multisig actually reduced what was valid.

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
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August 18, 2012, 08:36:06 PM
 #132

Wow, interesting looking deeper under the hood. This note is comforting though " Some of the more complicated opcodes are disabled out of concern that the client might have a bug in their implementation"

                                                                               
                
                                                       ╓▄▌██P                  
                                                 ╔▄▌███▀███▌                   
                                           ▄▄▌██▀▀╚  ╓██╩██                    
                                     ▄▄███▀▀╙      ▄██  ▓█                     
                               ▄▌███▀▀+          ▄█▀   ▐█                      
                        ,▄▌███▀▀¬              ▓█▀     █▄                      
                  ,▄▌███▀▀                  ,██▀      █▌                       
               '█████▌▄▄,                 ╓██╩       ██                        
                  ▀██▌▐▀▀▀█████▌▌▄▄╓    ▄██¬        ▄█                         
                     ▀██▄        ╚▀▀▀████          ▐█═                         
                        ▀██▄        ▓█▀██          █▀                          
                           ▀██▄  ,██▀   █µ        ██                           
                              ▀███Z     ██       ██                            
                                ▐██     ▐█      ▄█                             
                              ,,╓╓█▓▄▌   █▌    ▐█U                             
                        º▄▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓███   ▀█    █▌                              
                          ▀█▓▓▓▓▓████▀█▌  █▌  ██                               
                            ▀███████▌  ▀█µ▀█ ██                                
                              ▀█████     ███▓█                                 
                                ▐███      ▀██Ñ                                 
                                            ▀                             

ErebusBat
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August 19, 2012, 03:50:55 AM
 #133

Hmm, my gut reaction is cautious to having scripting within the core bitcoin exchange network especially as the default behavior. Just a bit uneasy at adding such an attack vector.
No offense, but please learn what you are talking about.

Scripting is not what you think it is.  Here is some information: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script

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August 19, 2012, 12:03:24 PM
 #134

Maybe Google will get involved with Bitcoin?
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August 19, 2012, 12:39:58 PM
 #135

Maybe Google will get involved with Bitcoin?

They already have:

http://www.developer.com/daily_news/google-releases-bitcoin-java-client.html
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August 19, 2012, 06:37:18 PM
 #136



Google allows it's staff to spend 20 percent of their work time on personal projects? Who do I have to suck off to get a job at Google?

Signed,

Puckered up and waiting for response.

http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2011-12-19/
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August 19, 2012, 07:49:26 PM
 #137



Google allows it's staff to spend 20 percent of their work time on personal projects? Who do I have to suck off to get a job at Google?

Signed,

Puckered up and waiting for response.

http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2011-12-19/

20% they work
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60% they spend on youtube
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August 21, 2012, 01:38:43 PM
 #138

I hope the block reward will keep the same, so that BTC will provide continuous incentive for new adopters, and reduce the deflation nature in BTC economy

The continuously reducing supply in protocol make it a perfect place for speculation, and the wild price swing will discourage business users

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August 21, 2012, 01:43:40 PM
 #139



Google allows it's staff to spend 20 percent of their work time on personal projects? Who do I have to suck off to get a job at Google?

Signed,

Puckered up and waiting for response.

http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2011-12-19/

20% they work
20% they do google stuff and
60% they spend on youtube FaceBook
FTFY  Wink

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August 21, 2012, 01:47:43 PM
 #140

I hope the block reward will keep the same, so that BTC will provide continuous incentive for new adopters, and reduce the deflation nature in BTC economy

The continuously reducing supply in protocol make it a perfect place for speculation, and the wild price swing will discourage business users

If you want inflationnary monopoly money, take a look at euros or dollars they might interest you.
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