Please remove the Digital Goods section

[redsn0w]

i dont agree in removing the Digital Goods section, it will only cause a topic posted in the wrong place coz you cant avoid people selling their goods. maybe a solution of moderating the thread or banning people selling stolen keys/accounts will be better if it is possible

You can crack down on them and ban them.

Do you guys want to be surrounded by people who might crack your accounts and sell them?

but do you want to penalize all the other "legit" sellers? I don't think it is a good choice, why remove an entire section because "few" dishonest person are selling "illegal items" etc... ?

[chmod755]

but do you want to penalize all the other "legit" sellers? I don't think it is a good choice, why remove an entire section because "few" dishonest person are selling "illegal items" etc... ?

Yes, unless the moderators are willing to enforce very strict rules for sales

[crazyearner]

What I think should happen with Digital goods section is for only selected people to sell stuff and to be verified before coming to sell that proof of submitting legitimate keys or software and priced at good rates along with reseller rights and proof of this to prove that it is legitimate cops been sold as such.

Too many people sell serials for Windows and their none legit or trial licence ones that expire. Torrent site invites need to be sorted too as many buy them and soon later get accounts suspended because invites come from stolen account to get found out and account gets banned because the inventor got banned for selling invites.

People who sell stuff like Amazon vouchers or alike are good but still can easily get ripped off and seen so many disputes in digital goods where people bought worked and I have had it where I bought one  a while back had the code disputed made claims that code was stolen in dispute with Amazon provided all proof.

Maybe to re work it and have verified and trusted sellers that have proven with past products have sold or can provide something to say everything is 100% legit and not illegal or scam. Even other sections are out of control and no proper rules are in place. I think would also be advisable to look into all sections of trading and selling goods hardware and digital.

[Muhammed Zakir]

It will be hard for staffs to do all these works. We will have to get dedicated staffs for this and will have to pay them and I don't think forum is earning enough to cover them. And also, how do we know things they provide are legit? How can we know that staffs aren't whitelisting their acquaintances? How can we know the staff itself is selling such keys? etc...

IMHO it is futile.

[chmod755]

And also, how do we know things they provide are legit? How can we know that staffs aren't whitelisting their acquaintances? How can we know the staff itself is selling such keys? etc...

How about only allowing software sales for people who are wiling to disclose their full name, address and phone number - so if it's not legit you can report them to the police.

[abyrnes81]

And also, how do we know things they provide are legit? How can we know that staffs aren't whitelisting their acquaintances? How can we know the staff itself is selling such keys? etc...

How about only allowing software sales for people who are wiling to disclose their full name, address and phone number - so if it's not legit you can report them to the police.

Then Where is the privacy? We are in a bitcoin forum, the anonimity is the first thing to protect here. If I want to sell a digital item, I will not give my name to the forum (this is my personal choice).

[EcuaMobi]

And also, how do we know things they provide are legit? How can we know that staffs aren't whitelisting their acquaintances? How can we know the staff itself is selling such keys? etc...

How about only allowing software sales for people who are wiling to disclose their full name, address and phone number - so if it's not legit you can report them to the police.

That would definitely make this much more than a forum. It'd be like a complete marketplace, which would be nice but I don't think all the required systems to verify and control could be implemented and managed (besides the privacy issues as pointed out by abyrnes). I also like crazyearner's idea but I don't think mods could do all that work either.
Being practical I really think a better organization of that board (creating sub-forums) and a more strict set of rules would help. Then we all could report those not following the rules.

[ajw7989]

Privacy is key for bitcoin so disclosing stuff should not be mandatory ESPECIALLY address and phone number since that can lead to a lot more serious bad things. This is a forum not a bank with bank security so leaving very private information like that on a forum that can be hacked is a definite no. Cleaning up the digital goods forum is a good idea however defining what is "bad" is very subjective. Also what proof can you provide on what is legit vs not. For example someone selling an amazon gift card for 10-15% off. Seems reasonable and it could be legit or a carded gift card or hacked/cracked. I would say start by removing things that you can tell are 100% wrong such as people selling combos, users dunkin n donuts accounts with balances on them (clearly cracked), PSN accounts with wallet balances on them, etc. Essentially anything that involves an account with a virtual balance that is being advertised. Gray area items such as gift cards should be left since they can be legit and leave it up to the professional judgment of the buyers to decide.

[chmod755]

Privacy is key for bitcoin so disclosing stuff should not be mandatory ESPECIALLY address and phone number since that can lead to a lot more serious bad things. This is a forum not a bank with bank security so leaving very private information like that on a

Your experience with Bitcoin is going to be more disappointing if you're sending money that can't be claimed back to people you don't know. Privacy for buyers works in most cases unless you're trading BTC.

[Hazir]

Most offers in Digital Goods are related to cracked user accounts and illegally obtained software keys.

IMO, a good portion of the Digital Goods forum supports theft as long as it benefits bitcoin.  I got ripped a new one when I pointed out obvious theft.   

Copying something is not always a blatant theft. You can't react that way every time. It is thin line between stealing intellectual property and copying something patented by someone else etc.
I want to say that removing Digital Good is not going to resolve anything and it is just sweeping problem under the rug.

[Karartma1]

Every year* only in Turkey there are more than 1 million accidents in traffic. Let's ban (remove) all cars from traffic then. Your offer is absurd.

Digital Goods section is very useful if you know how to use that board. There are a lot of legit sellers and that board bring more activity for Bitcoin related market transactions. I would say it is the biggest and best board for Bitcoin ecosystem and should be expanded (more sub forums), not removed.

[Reynaldo]

I've sold some goods there and if it was removed people like me would not have a place for those kind of transactions. Enforcing rules wont do anything since we dont have that many moderators to have them checkout every thread, my recommendation would be to actually divide the sections on legitimate goods and the other one, people would buy how they want and if someone is found to be posting in the wrong section then consequences should follow.

[chmod755]

Every year* only in Turkey there are more than 1 million accidents in traffic. Let's ban (remove) all cars from traffic then.

Are you really comparing people knowingly selling illegal goods to accidents in traffic? If 1 million people sold stolen cars in Turkey should that be tolerated?

[achow101]

This is best place to find some digital goods including illegal but I'm always find Stream game keys scripts and premium account.

[Karartma1]

Every year* only in Turkey there are more than 1 million accidents in traffic. Let's ban (remove) all cars from traffic then.

Are you really comparing people knowingly selling illegal goods to accidents in traffic? If 1 million people sold stolen cars in Turkey should that be tolerated?

I'm saying it's the same logic. There are accidents, ban cars. There are illegal goods, remove whole marketplace.
It's like censoring internet in Turkey only for Turkish users when a social media site don't remove a content that government don't want us to see. But everybody use VPN and see it anyway. It's absurd, outdated, anti-libertarian. This offer is against BitcoinTalk's policy.

[Karartma1]

Are you really comparing people knowingly selling illegal goods to accidents in traffic? If 1 million people sold stolen cars in Turkey should that be tolerated?

+ If you can prove they sell illegal goods in all jurisdictions, then moderators will remove it. Just because you don't like a digital good or it's illegal in your jurisdiction doesn't mean it's illegal in everywhere. Rules are clear.

Fun fact*: People sell stolen cars in Syria, they steal it from Turkey and sell them back to real owners. That's tolerated by our government. Laws are f*cked up.

*1 http://www.ahaber.com.tr/webtv/turkiye/suriyede-calinti-oto-pazari
*2 http://www.aljazeera.com.tr/al-jazeera-ozel/kiralik-araclar-suriyeye-kaciriliyor
*3 http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/ekonomi/25425166.asp

[chmod755]

+ If you can prove they sell illegal goods in all jurisdictions

It is illegal in several jurisdictions. Even having sex with children recording it and selling the video would be legal in some countries....

[Braino]

Removing the section completely makes no sense whatsoever.

Use your head when buying things. If you can't handle that section don't go there.

[achow101]

+ If you can prove they sell illegal goods in all jurisdictions

It is illegal in several jurisdictions. Even having sex with children recording it and selling the video would be legal in some countries....

Which law will refer to this board?
This is international forum porn is fine in some countries.

[EcuaMobi]

+ If you can prove they sell illegal goods in all jurisdictions

It is illegal in several jurisdictions. Even having sex with children recording it and selling the video would be legal in some countries....

Which law will refer to this board?
This is international forum porn is fine in some countries.

The forum forbids a deal if it's illegal in either the buyer's or the seller's country. So I understand you can't publish something that is illegal in your country and you can't make an offer for something that is illegal in your country. However that's hard to enforce because people are not required to disclose their country (and we know little about other countries law). Probably the community should decide some more specific rules (which could be handled by a poll) for common cases that varies per country such as copyrighted goods, porn and so on.