James Turk's Q&A with GoldMoney followers includes section on Bitcoin

[miscreanity]

I think I read once before that Mr. Mayer was quite positive and supportive of bitcoin.

He is; much, if not all, of his online material is available for purchase via Bitcoin.

[evoorhees]

From the relevant section quoted below, James Turk (founder of GoldMoney) clearly doesn't yet grasp the nature of Bitcoin, equating it with fiat currencies "backed by nothing". Oddly enough, GoldMoney accepts fiat currencies backed by nothing.

LOL well said

It's like the Mises Institute decrying government fiat at every opportunity, yet accepting it gratefully, and not yet accepting free market bitcoin currency.

[tvbcof]

Turk has his well rehearsed talking points and rarely much more in my observation.

----

On a slight tangent, I was on a long drive recently and trying to think up ways to describe Bitcoin.  I've always advocated formally (whatever that means in the Bitcoin world) the term 'money' when talking about Bitcoin for a few reasons.  Here's my description which takes the form of a comparison:

 - Fiat:  A centrally managed accounting system backed by the law.

 - Bitcoin:  A distributed accounting system backed by cryptography/mathematics.

 - Gold (physical):  A distributed accounting system backed by physics.

I wonder if Turk would or could grok that?  I've always held that Bitcoin and gold are so close to one another when contrasted with fiat that for a lot of conversations they can be considered identical.

[Stephen Gornick]

I've always held that Bitcoin and gold are so close to one another when contrasted with fiat that for a lot of conversations they can be considered identical.

Yup.  Take almost any goldbug article, do
 $ %s/gold/bitcoin/g 
and what you end up with makes nearly perfect sense to a bitcoiner.

[cypherdoc]

I don't know who originally came up with idea of referring to Bitcoin as being "both the blood and the veins", but that would have been a perfect way to respond to this.  Bitcoin is both a store of value (blood) and the veins (payment network).

James Turk is describing how he does not believe Bitcoin has value as an asset.  But the question was simply asking when Bitcoin would be a payment method directly supported by GoldMoney.com.

Charlie Shrem of BitInstant came up with the blood and veins analogy or at least it was the first time I heard it (on a phone call a few months ago). I have been using it ever since because it is so accurate and easy to understand.

Additionally, Mr. Turk should separate his personal beliefs from business practice. As the chairman of GoldMoney he should be concerned with his fiduciary duties and not strutting around as some religious zealot with a particular philosophical agenda. In this case, he has a customer that has a particular need and is asking if GoldMoney will provide a service for that need and he told the customer to go pound sand because it conflicts with his philosophical assertion.

It does not matter what Mr. Turk's personal belief is about whether Bitcoin has value as an asset (obviously it does and the market says so because millions of dollars worth trade every day) and the market does not give two craps what Mr. Turk's opinion is. A good businessman would have responded something like, "Well, that depends on whether we can provide a service customers demand and make a profit. Currently we have not had enough customers demand Bitcoin integration to justify making the investments required."

BitCoins are the ultimate currency backed by nothing. It is not money in my view because money is a tangible asset, and BitCoins are not.

This position is not compatible with his later statements about fiat currency. Fiat currency is tangible too because it is made of paper, steel, copper, nickel etc. These are tangible commodities.

The point Turk is missing is scarcity. Gold has more value than paper because it is much scarcer. And that is why bitcoin has value, because it is scarce.

Mr. Turk's argument is logically flawed and he is completely missing how the Bitcoin source code has solved the double-spend problem. Plus, his arguments beg the question: What is tangibility? He tries to solve the double-spend problem with auditors, a trust company, etc. or in other words corporate governenance and segregation of duties. But only particular people are allowed to enter the vaults and verify the bullion. On the other hand, Bitcoin solves the double spend problem with source code that is available for anyone to review. Therefore, GoldMoney's system is closed source were double spends are possible while Bitcoin is open source where double spends are impossible (or the risks can be more easily calculated).

and also centralized.

[cypherdoc]

started recommending it around $0.05, to a few of Mr. Turk's friends in person even,[/i].

There's an interesting article about GoldMoney.  Have you seen it? 

 - http://www.runtogold.com/goldmoney/goldmoney-scam-goldmoney-fraud-complaints-problems/

The owner of runtogold.com, Trace Mayer (who also owns HowToVanish.com), is very close to Mr. Turk. I don't expect anything negative coming out from the site. 

I think I read once before that Mr. Mayer was quite positive and supportive of bitcoin.

Dude...

sunnankar=Trace mayer

[bitcool]

Dude...

sunnankar=Trace mayer

aha, it's a small btc world after all.

[cypherdoc]

Dude...

sunnankar=Trace mayer

aha, it's a small btc world after all.

Now maybe you'll understand my joke?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=100910.msg1104189#msg1104189

[sunnankar]

Dude...

Don't know what you are talking about.

[n8rwJeTt8TrrLKPa55eU]

I've always held that Bitcoin and gold are so close to one another when contrasted with fiat that for a lot of conversations they can be considered identical.

Yup.  Take almost any goldbug article, do
 $ %s/gold/bitcoin/g  
and what you end up with makes nearly perfect sense to a bitcoiner.

I always thought that this reworking of Exter's pyramid by gengix was really insightful in showing how gold and bitcoin relate to each other.  Gold is the best tangible money.  Bitcoin is the best intangible money.  Each is a mirror image of the other, sitting at the top of their own category.  They do not compete, they complement.

[cypherdoc]

Dude...

Don't know what you are talking about.

that's ok then.  it'll be our secret.

[sunnankar]

I always thought that this reworking of Exter's pyramid by gengix was really insightful in showing how gold and bitcoin relate to each other.  Gold is the best tangible money.  Bitcoin is the best intangible money.  Each is a mirror image of the other, sitting at the top of their own category.  They do not compete, they complement.

I tend to agree. Every currency needs a mirror. The fiat currency experiment resulted in the FRN and Euro. Now that the Euro is evaporating and the debt situation the world markets has reverted back to gold and the FRN. Gold and Bitcoin could match that relationship in a bi-commodity standard like gold/silver.

It seems gold is best at transferring value over time while Bitcoin is superior at transferring value over distance. Sure, more of the systems need to be built out but it can clone and graft much of the current infrastructure like the new BitInstant Credit/Debit card.

[FreeMoney]

echoing OP comments.

Someone should write him and say "I know the dollar is backed by nothing, but would you consider accepting them anyway. I imagine some potential customers would appreciate it and you can always trade the dollars for things that you do like."

[flix]

Gold has a few thousand years of history behind it... that amount of momentum counts for a lot in human events.

OTOH saving in gold and paying in bitcoin would be an extremely powerful and flexible combination.

I think that the guys at http://coinabul.com/ have the right idea. Mr. Turk should take note. After all, he does not believe in fiat dollars or euros but still accepts them in payment...

[flix]

It seems gold is best at transferring value over time while Bitcoin is superior at transferring value over distance. Sure, more of the systems need to be built out but it can clone and graft much of the current infrastructure like the new BitInstant Credit/Debit card.

^This

[Coinabul]

Gold has a few thousand years of history behind it... that amount of momentum counts for a lot in human events.

OTOH saving in gold and paying in bitcoin would be an extremely powerful and flexible combination.

I think that the guys at http://coinabul.com/ have the right idea. Mr. Turk should take note. After all, he does not believe in fiat dollars or euros but still accepts them in payment...

That's what we think will do well in the future. Although, a cryptocoin that's more focused on payments instead of value transfer like Bitcoin is, would do much better in day-to-day operations.