If Greece defaults

[whatnow]

Oh, what will the Spanish and Italian people think about Greece's free haircut?



The Greek problem would be over by now if Spain and Italy are almost as bad as Greece. Bitcoins will only work when it is as easy to use as Debit Cards in even mom and pop stores. Just remember even when Bitcoin is no longer adding more bitcoins you can have inflation and deflation. Being on the gold standard was none to cause deflation and sink economies. The best thing bitcoin could do is take the game out of governments hands of gaming the system to gain a short term advantage that costs them more at a later date.   Always remember the value of something is what the masses think the value is. Gold prices go up and down.

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[pitham1]

It would be funny if Greece just started printing Euros and circulated them throughout Europe. Pay your people in Euros. Use the same press the EU uses.

Very cool if true.. I'd be printing trillions.


https://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2012/03/15/bank-of-greece-printing-its-own-euros-says-belgian-economist/

This is the only thing which sets apart European countries from others - the inability to print their own currency at will.
If this happens, the Euro will have as much sanctity as the former Greek drachna.

[Erdogan]

The government of Greece is an interesting test case, because they are the first government to go bust with relatively sound money. The euro is sound in the sense that the government of Greece does not have the power to debase the currency. (After the "whatever it takes" statement, the euro has been fraudulently taken over by the ECB, and it is no longer sound, at large).

So in a sound money environment, the government can not expand the money volume, and loaning is kept in check by the market. Only taxes are left, meaning the government has to spend less, and the welfare state is not possible. The prospect of the government of greece going bust, was written in stone the day they joined the euro.

When you are already insolvent, and spend more than your income, you go bust. That is a law of nature that can not be circumvented. It is just like the first law of thermodynamics, or gravity.

Appearantly, the folks living in the area violently controlled by the gang of thugs called the government of Greece, let this doomed project go on since 2001 till now without questioning it. They appearantly thought it was smart, since the government now could loan more and tax less.

If and when sound money becomes the norm, a few more governments will take the same route. After which the folks living on the land recognize the wolf on its gait and restrict the governments. It will not end governments, but severely restrict them. Remember, they have only the power you give them.

[qiwoman2]

Greece will be able to afford it's inland commitments with revenues coming in from taxes etc without the euro bailout money but they won't have dough to pay the Troika funds..so best is to default on the loans until the Troika can bring down the interest rate and keep the internal affairs solid..Why is Greece paying loans that Germany makes a huge profit from anyway? When Germany after the war was rewarded with cheap credit it was o.k but they wanna penalise Greece and make it poorer and poorer..doesn't make sense..I can stuff this kind of eurozone lol.

[Erdogan]

Greece will be able to afford it's inland commitments with revenues coming in from taxes etc without the euro bailout money but they won't have dough to pay the Troika funds..so best is to default on the loans until the Troika can bring down the interest rate and keep the internal affairs solid..Why is Greece paying loans that Germany makes a huge profit from anyway? When Germany after the war was rewarded with cheap credit it was o.k but they wanna penalise Greece and make it poorer and poorer..doesn't make sense..I can stuff this kind of eurozone lol.

They should default. That's the thing with loans, they are either paid or they are not paid. As varoufakis suggests, they should neither default nor pay, rather push the repayments "into the distant future", that is debt monetization, it is the equivalent of turning debt into money, or printing money, which they currently can't, due to the euro.

When they have defaulted, and continue the welfare state with gross incompetence, they just start a new cycle with a new default down the line. It is the same with all welfare states, it is just that government of Greece hit the wall first among the so called advanced economies. Unsound money is not a solution, it just hides the overspending and incompetence for a while.

[Erdogan]

I think in the coming hours well see if the new Greek finmin has war games this out previously and will act -- or if this took him off guard and will be forced to react.

I bet we start seeing atm lines in Greece before last call at whatever bar you guys are sitting in on the east coast.

Yep, tomorrow is my guess. They could repel the ATM run with lies last week, and tried again. The question of default now is just a formality, it's a long time since they stopped paying the suppliers to the government.

If the eurogroup give them more money, it is just a question of time before the whole mediterrenian area defaults. Three months, toppers.

[Pab]

 Very good articles showingall that EBC,IMF lies
if Greece will goes in to russian arms it will be his biggest tragedy,2bln$ Russia promised is worth 2Bln empty words
Id Greecewill goes in China arms hiseconomy may recover really fast,what will say IMF,EBC EU officials, propably talks with Greeceareclose to succesfoul end,and thayare extented

Mr Tsipras said the core powers were by degrees bringing about the "complete abolition of democracy in Europe" and were ushering in a technocratic monstrosity with powers to subjugate states that refuse to accept the "doctrines of extreme neoliberalism".
"For those countries that refuse to bow to the new authority, the solution will be simple: Harsh punishment. Judging from the present circumstances, it appears that this new European power is being constructed, with Greece being the first victim," he said.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/may/31/greece-alexis-tsipras-lambasts-absurd-proposals-creditors-for-debt-deal-failure

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11642260/Defiant-Tsipras-threatens-to-detonate-European-crisis-rather-than-yield-to-creditor-monstrosity.html

[IMF-EU economists]

We are mathematical geniuses.

1+3=13
7-1=8
5+8=4

«νoυς υγιής εν σώματι υγιεί»

[Pab]

Sometimes i feel Greece case is so much martketed in media.Portugal already rejected any EU financial help,thay have huge debt,but his debt stop to grow,and now more and more investors are coming there,just becouse thay are EU,IMF free

Greece is picture of big problem what is all EU,IMF,money printing

Finally it has comeback to normal economy,investing instead of rising taxes and cutting spending
If that wil not happen euro will fail andaftereven EU may fail and then reborn one time again

Next victim after Greecewill be Poland,i know becouse i am from that country

[jjacob]

Sometimes i feel Greece case is so much martketed in media.Portugal already rejected any EU financial help,thay have huge debt,but his debt stop to grow,and now more and more investors are coming there,just becouse thay are EU,IMF free

The problem is not just huge debt. There are other factors like
- Debt becoming due
- Investors not trusting the government
- Lack of a concrete plan to tackle the debt crisis.

Sure, there are other countries with such problems, but Greece seems to be on the top of the pack.

[thy]

Sometimes i feel Greece case is so much martketed in media.Portugal already rejected any EU financial help,thay have huge debt,but his debt stop to grow,and now more and more investors are coming there,just becouse thay are EU,IMF free

Greece is picture of big problem what is all EU,IMF,money printing

Finally it has comeback to normal economy,investing instead of rising taxes and cutting spending
If that wil not happen euro will fail andaftereven EU may fail and then reborn one time again

Next victim after Greece will be Poland, i know becouse i am from that country

Why do you think Poland will be targeted by EU and IMF, looking at the debt to GDP numbers Polen was only at something like 50.1% debt to GDP ratio by dec 2014, is the debt growing fast in Polen at the moment ?
If one looks at USAs numbers for example 105.06% in 2015 up from 72.5 % 2012, they look to be in way worse shape than Polen.

[V for Varoufakis]

Greece can print billions or trillions drachmas to pay the debt. Its very easy. They dont need euro or dollar.

[manselr]

Greece can print billions or trillions drachmas to pay the debt. Its very easy. They dont need euro or dollar.

This wont end until Greece is taken off life supprt. Which means an EXIT, of course. Is there any opther option?

Apparently the Troika is willing to keep talking, and to bleed Greece dry for as long as it takes. Therefore a Greek Exit is only likely to come when half-a-million citizens stage protests and riots in Athens. This probably will happen!

[Pab]

Sometimes i feel Greece case is so much martketed in media.Portugal already rejected any EU financial help,thay have huge debt,but his debt stop to grow,and now more and more investors are coming there,just becouse thay are EU,IMF free

Greece is picture of big problem what is all EU,IMF,money printing

Finally it has comeback to normal economy,investing instead of rising taxes and cutting spending
If that wil not happen euro will fail andaftereven EU may fail and then reborn one time again

Next victim after Greece will be Poland, i know becouse i am from that country

Why do you think Poland will be targeted by EU and IMF, looking at the debt to GDP numbers Polen was only at something like 50.1% debt to GDP ratio by dec 2014, is the debt growing fast in Polen at the moment ?
If one looks at USAs numbers for example 105.06% in 2015 up from 72.5 % 2012, they look to be in way worse shape than Polen.

The truth is we haveeven bigger debth than Greece,but investors are still buying our bonds,but it can turn in opposit,Dont compare USA to Poland,thatwhat is possible in a case of USA is not possible in  Poland and it is even not possible in a case of all EU

In case of Poland,Poland did some work on his books and now Poland set regulation tha tallow to print,we didnt print even a penny in the time of 2008 crisis,now all Poland is big fraud,and all Polish banks are daughters of westerness banks,Spanish,Italian,French,German even Portugal,whowill pay in a case of banking crash,All banks,both mother and daughter

but in a case of Europe,France is just one tic tac bomb,death economy and public   debth aroun 100% of GDP,same is with Italy,but that media are not talking about,One speculation attack may cause Germany crash,all investorsare running for his bonds like a safe heaven,somesmart speculators with some money can cause a panic .EU is 28 diffrent nations not one big economy system

[Pab]

You can watch here live updates from Greece battle field,often hour by hour

http://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2015/jun/03/greek-creditors-bailout-terms-tsipras-ecb-draghi-live

bit thruth is same was in January,March,if thay will get that 7 bln,than what next,thay will have only much higher debt

[Coinbanker]

They can't get out of this huge debt. only can postpone it. bankrupt is inevitable,

[Gronthaing]

Greece can print billions or trillions drachmas to pay the debt. Its very easy. They dont need euro or dollar.

They can print but no one would take them. The drachma would be too devalued for anyone to accept. And then the problem is Greece produces very little. So it has no way to import what it needs or get other currencies to pay the debt.

They can't get out of this huge debt. only can postpone it. bankrupt is inevitable,

They can get out of it if part of the debt is forgiven. Or better conditions to repay are given to them. It wouldn't be the first time this happens to a country. Not sure why it's a problem here.

[Fabrizio89]

It will happen what everyone doesn't expect, the Euro will pump to the moon and Bitcoin will crash to the ground.

[Febo]

They can't get out of this huge debt. only can postpone it. bankrupt is inevitable,

Why are you so sure. Do you know how big Greece is? Do you know how many islands they have? Do you know how much one island cost? If they want and sell few they can pay off all easily and even lend some money to those in need.

[pereira4]

What we don't know, and can't know, is the inside story.

We don't know how well prepared are the Greeks for an exit. We don't know if they are negotiating with the Russians and Chinese.

It's too early to judge what took place at this point. Maybe the Greek people got screwed over again, and maybe not.