If Greece defaults

[JackH]

Its getting close now. Talks are breaking down at every meeting. The last breakdown was between finance ministers last Sunday.

Apparently the "final chance" is going to be tomorrow (from the writing of this post), when finance ministers will once again meet.

At the same time, two payments are missed this month, with a third coming up in 2 days.

And some more news hitting the Guardian as we speak: http://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2015/jun/17/greek-crisis-austria-default-ecb-banks-live

All while Bitcoin has gone up 10% the past 3 days. If they bust, prepare to see a complete and utter loss in the confidence of the fiat/bank sector once again. If it gets bigger than Lehman, Bitcoin will be poised to grab a big chunk of the markets. In desperate times, people will always resort to alternative methods.

[deisik]

All while Bitcoin has gone up 10% the past 3 days. If they bust, prepare to see a complete and utter loss in the confidence of the fiat/bank sector once again. If it gets bigger than Lehman, Bitcoin will be poised to grab a big chunk of the markets. In desperate times, people will always resort to alternative methods.

Wishful thinking as it is. People will most certainly run for dollar and precious metals as a safe haven. Although a new pump (but nothing more than that) may well happen in Bitcoin (which would be nice per se)...

[bryant.coleman]

How many "deals" have we already had with Greece? Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results.

Well... none of the deals have helped them much. Give them some significant concessions (such as lowering the interest rates), and then see the results. Right now, the troika is hell bent on destroying the Greek economy. Just tell me how is it possible to make a debt payment of € 8 billion per year, when the tax revenue is much lower than that amount?

[josephliton]

We have €448m to the International Monetary Fund is due this Thursday (April 9th).

Then we have public sector wages and pensions, €1.7b in social security payments made by the state (April 14th).

Then we have a €200m loan repayment to the IMF (May 1st).

Now correct me if I am wrong, but if Greece cant pay any of these 3 bills we are talking about the first "western modern" country to be technically in default. If they resort back to the Drachma, it will be one of the most worthless currencies on the planet.

What I cant really figure out is the outcome, both worldwide financially against the Euro, and obviously against Bitcoin. Will we see BTC as safe heaven? Something tells me only a little, because the average Greek is not highly IT literate, but I could be wrong here.

Give me your thoughts people, as this goes down in about 3 days from now!

The European Commission has a responsibility to sustain the EU Manufacturing economies.

They have given away this critical segment of the economy to Asean countries.
The EU is responsible for its own Bankruptcies. It will continue unless the EU Bureaucrats are sacked.

Greece needs to be out of the stifling Euro currency to survive.

[mikaljan]

The European Commission has a responsibility to sustain the EU Manufacturing economies.

They have given away this critical segment of the economy to Asean countries.
The EU is responsible for its own Bankruptcies. It will continue unless the EU Bureaucrats are sacked.

Greece needs to be out of the stifling Euro currency to survive.

Some people say the Greeks are lazy, they want something for nothing, they're slippery backstabbers, crooks, blackmailers, untrustworthy and I say to them, maybe they are right, but at least they are still Greek through and through.

[josephliton]

The European Commission has a responsibility to sustain the EU Manufacturing economies.

They have given away this critical segment of the economy to Asean countries.
The EU is responsible for its own Bankruptcies. It will continue unless the EU Bureaucrats are sacked.

Greece needs to be out of the stifling Euro currency to survive.

Some people say the Greeks are lazy, they want something for nothing, they're slippery backstabbers, crooks, blackmailers, untrustworthy and I say to them, maybe they are right, but at least they are still Greek through and through.

So what. People are more important then money. We will say anything you want to hear as long as the money keeps flowing.

[Sethtabiah]

Kick the ~Greece out from the EU .They lied to join the EZ , and they should not be trusted again with a Golden Credit Card again.

Eastern Europeans live on far less than they do.

A pensioner in Bulgaria gets half of what a Greek pensioner gets in Greece right now.

Have you seen the Bulgarians asking for more ? If the Bulgarians can live without borrowing money, so the Greeks can do.

Most of Eastern Europe are copying the Germans, no credit cards.

[josephliton]

Kick the ~Greece out from the EU .They lied to join the EZ , and they should not be trusted again with a Golden Credit Card again.

Eastern Europeans live on far less than they do.

A pensioner in Bulgaria gets half of what a Greek pensioner gets in Greece right now.

Have you seen the Bulgarians asking for more ? If the Bulgarians can live without borrowing money, so the Greeks can do.

Most of Eastern Europe are copying the Germans, no credit cards.

Wrong, They deserve whatever they want and will do whatever they need to do to get it.

[kencoles]

Kick the ~Greece out from the EU .They lied to join the EZ , and they should not be trusted again with a Golden Credit Card again.

Eastern Europeans live on far less than they do.

A pensioner in Bulgaria gets half of what a Greek pensioner gets in Greece right now.

Have you seen the Bulgarians asking for more ? If the Bulgarians can live without borrowing money, so the Greeks can do.

Most of Eastern Europe are copying the Germans, no credit cards.

The controls on Greece should have been in position from day one.The EU threw money at Greece for years.They never reformed and wont be reforming now.They will never be fit for the EU and many nations in Europe are not fit for the EU the only nation fit for the EU is Germany so it should leave and reintroduce the EU mark as its currency.U wait and see the EU will break up the peoples power will ultimately win through and the corrupt and stupid politicians will lose. its all happened before Hitlers 100 year Reich lasted 13 years so the EU has already done very well indeed.

[Marbit]

How many "deals" have we already had with Greece? Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results.

Well... none of the deals have helped them much. Give them some significant concessions (such as lowering the interest rates), and then see the results. Right now, the troika is hell bent on destroying the Greek economy. Just tell me how is it possible to make a debt payment of € 8 billion per year, when the tax revenue is much lower than that amount?

I believe if the things are not going your way, then go back to your roots and start over from there. Greece should do the same. They can boost their by focusing on sector by sector and not by going all over it at the same time.

[josephliton]

The controls on Greece should have been in position from day one.The EU threw money at Greece for years.They never reformed and wont be reforming now.They will never be fit for the EU and many nations in Europe are not fit for the EU the only nation fit for the EU is Germany so it should leave and reintroduce the EU mark as its currency.U wait and see the EU will break up the peoples power will ultimately win through and the corrupt and stupid politicians will lose. its all happened before Hitlers 100 year Reich lasted 13 years so the EU has already done very well indeed.

Yes Greece should leave, but I disagree with who's ruining Europe's Economy, but those at the helm of the Dream they still cling too, everyone else's Nightmare, who's not a big Multi Corporation, or Banker, a Politician, the Unelected that rule the roast out there in the EU, the fault lays firmly at their feet, there is no recovery, any Government that relies on a Central Bank, is Bankrupt, were all on the verge of another total collapse of the Monetary System, WAY BIGGER purely because of Fraud at the highest level, you can't fix what you broke by doing the same thing.

[bryant.coleman]

A pensioner in Bulgaria gets half of what a Greek pensioner gets in Greece right now.

If the Bulgarian pensioners are earning less, then it is the fault of the Bulgarians and their government, not the Greeks' fault. An average pensioner in Greece has contributed as much as 10 times the amount to the pension fund, compared to the same by the Bulgarian pensioners. Using that logic, the pensioners in Greece should be getting 10 times the pensions as in Bulgaria. But that is not the case, as 80% of the money in the pension funds are diverted to make the debt payments.

[countryfree]

Kick the ~Greece out from the EU .They lied to join the EZ , and they should not be trusted again with a Golden Credit Card again.

Eastern Europeans live on far less than they do.

A pensioner in Bulgaria gets half of what a Greek pensioner gets in Greece right now.

Have you seen the Bulgarians asking for more ? If the Bulgarians can live without borrowing money, so the Greeks can do.

Very true, and the Bulgarians are smarter, it's a much better country to start a business than in Greece. Economic data doesn't lie. Foreign investments are growing in Bulgaria, and global economic growth is among the best in Europe. I guess Bulgarians could teach a lot to Greeks, but the Greeks don't want to learn.

[bryant.coleman]

Very true, and the Bulgarians are smarter, it's a much better country to start a business than in Greece. Economic data doesn't lie. Foreign investments are growing in Bulgaria, and global economic growth is among the best in Europe. I guess Bulgarians could teach a lot to Greeks, but the Greeks don't want to learn.

Bulgaria transformed itself from a third world nation to a developed nation, after it joined the European Union. The salaries are still extremely low, when compared to those in the other parts of the EU, and that's why the corporations are flocking to Bulgaria. And the real estate sector is also seeing a lot of momentum, especially from the non-EU clients (Russia, Turkey).

[JerryCurlzzz]

If Greece leaves the Euro.... this is longterm bullish for Euro, right?

I mean, short term, some shock maybe, but this is sort of cutting out the weak link, yeah? Seems the EURUSD market is still willing to go bull on bearish US economic data..... so the bears don't seem that strong.

[Gronthaing]

If Greece leaves the Euro.... this is longterm bullish for Euro, right?

I mean, short term, some shock maybe, but this is sort of cutting out the weak link, yeah? Seems the EURUSD market is still willing to go bull on bearish US economic data..... so the bears don't seem that strong.

Don't think anyone knows for sure it would be that simple. Partly depends on the effect on other countries going through austerity and how people react. It's the contagion idea. Depositors in countries like Spain, Italy or Portugal may try to move their money out of the country to safer places. Could lead to a banking crisis there and other banks that lent to those countries. And businesses and people may cut spending out of fear leading to another recession.

[stallion]

no one is going to be carrying physical gold and silver to pay in shops.
how will people buy things over the internet with metals? they'll have to have gold banks which i doubt anyone will trust after a default.

bitcoin is the obvious answer but most people are too stupid to realize it.

Greece should accept they are in bankruptcy.

[Amph]

i never understood, how is, leaving the eurozone will help them, if they are bankrupt, it's not like , if they leaves, suddently they will gain money from nowhere, in reality they will be more in bankrupt status, than anything else, because there will not be anymore, the help from the european central banks

they will not leaves eurozone, they need the support of it

[Gronthaing]

i never understood, how is, leaving the eurozone will help them, if they are bankrupt, it's not like , if they leaves, suddently they will gain money from nowhere, in reality they will be more in bankrupt status, than anything else, because there will not be anymore, the help from the european central banks

they will not leaves eurozone, they need the support of it

Don't think they want to leave. Problem is the conditions imposed on them don't give them a lot of choices. Crushing debt. Forced to have large primary budget surplus instead of using that money to rebuild economy. Austerity policies for many years now. Etc. And for example when they recently proposed increasing taxes on corporations instead of the people to make more money, and disbanding military bases they aren't using to save money, the proposal was rejected. It doesn't make sense. Leaving the eurozone may be very bad, but on the long run better for them.

[BigBoy89]

We have €448m to the International Monetary Fund is due this Thursday (April 9th).

Then we have public sector wages and pensions, €1.7b in social security payments made by the state (April 14th).

Then we have a €200m loan repayment to the IMF (May 1st).

Now correct me if I am wrong, but if Greece cant pay any of these 3 bills we are talking about the first "western modern" country to be technically in default. If they resort back to the Drachma, it will be one of the most worthless currencies on the planet.

What I cant really figure out is the outcome, both worldwide financially against the Euro, and obviously against Bitcoin. Will we see BTC as safe heaven? Something tells me only a little, because the average Greek is not highly IT literate, but I could be wrong here.

Give me your thoughts people, as this goes down in about 3 days from now!

If Greece defaults Greece will have to pay it back anyhow.