[ANN][BSTY2] Community Takeover of GlobalBoost-Y, following 51% attack

[bstymaster]

I have recently demonstrated a 51% attack on GlobalBoost-Y.
( Orignial Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=775289.0 )

This was possible because of the extremely low hashpower the coin currently has.
Note that I did not perform any double spend. This was just to demonstrate the vulnerability.

The coin lost most of it's miners after the block reward dropped from 347 directly to 50.  This is a masked premine.

Immediately after launching the attack I asked the developers to increase the block reward, to serve as incentive for miners, so that the coin would no longer would be exposed to this attack. They categorically refused. Then I cancelled a few small transactions (about 3000 BSTY in total) and Bittrex immediately delisted the coin.

I am starting this thread in hopes that we can mount a community take over, to salvage the coin.

If you hold BSTY, or you are interested in mining it, please post your comments here.

BSTY original thread is self-moderated and began deleting some of my messages.
This is not. I cannot censor any messages here.


MY BLOCK REWARD PROPOSAL

https://github.com/bstymaster/GlobalBoost-Y

Please note that I haven't yet updated the checkpoints. This is just a preliminary proposal. Awaiting feedback, and then will set the checkpoint pubkey.

Before block 29200, the rewards will remain the same.
After that, valid block reward will be 1024, and it will be halving every 240000 blocks.

This will fix the 51% attack vulnerability as it will give adequate incentive to miners.


int64 static GetBlockValue(int nHeight, int64 nFees)
{
    int64 nSubsidy = 1024 * COIN;

    if (nHeight <17291)
    {
        nSubsidy = 347 * COIN;
    }
    else
     {  
        if(nHeight < 29200 )
        {
           nSubsidy = 50 * COIN;
        }
          else
       {
          int halvings = (nHeight-29200) / 240000;
     // Force block reward to zero when right shift is undefined.
       if (halvings >= 64)
      return nFees;
   
       // Subsidy is cut in half every 240,000 blocks which will occur approximately every 4 years.
       nSubsidy >>= halvings;
       }
     }
    return nSubsidy + nFees;
}

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[Shadow_Runner]

Another community takeover...

[ocminer]

Another community takeover...

looks like takeovers are now "in"...

[bstdev]

There is no community take over, BSTYMaster is just an scammer. the discussion can be continue here

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=775289.0

Another community takeover...

looks like takeovers are now "in"...

[Razerglass]

Another community takeover...

looks like takeovers are now "in"...

i was just thinking that, trend alert

[louiseth1]

We shall soon witness a 3rd generation takeover with the current trends.

[Razerglass]

We shall soon witness a 3rd generation takeover with the current trends.

hold on while i make a bitcoin take over thread

[hussar]

sound more like a hostile takeover than community 

[bstymaster]

We shall see about that!

Let's not forget that you are the premine scammers, not me. I exposed your scam, just when you were in the middle of making fake volume on bittrex.

Let's see what the community has to say on an uncensored thread.

There is no community take over, BSTYMaster is just an scammer. the discussion can be continue here

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=775289.0

Another community takeover...

looks like takeovers are now "in"...

EDIT

sound more like a hostile takeover than community  

I wasn't hostile at all. I didn't steal anything by double spending. And all it took for the 51% attack was 50 computers.
And now I'm not even attacking it. I just demonstrated the security problem, that's all.

I started this thread mainly because their thread is self-moderated.

[WigitGetIt]

sound more like a hostile takeover than community 

That is exactly what this is.  This person has been attacking BSTY and is trying to take miners and accusing GlobalBoost calling us liars and cheats.  We know people who support us don't believe such lies.  I urge him to make his own Yescrypt coin and compete, I guess this is how he runs things.  Lies now ensure his failure in the future.  Good luck.  

[bstymaster]

It is no lie. The 51% attack can easily be made by anybody, because your coin is INSECURE.
Bittrex agrees! they delisted your coin.

As of now, anybody can do it like this:

in main.cpp:
bool ProcessBlock(CValidationState &state, CNode* pfrom, CBlock* pblock, CDiskBlockPos *dbp)
{
   if(pfrom!=NULL) { return true;   }   // refuse foreign blocks   <<<< INSERT THIS LINE

    // Check for duplicate


Then compile, start daemon, start pool, and if you can get like 50 computers in your pool, you'll take them over

Mining BSTY is a joke right now!

They completely became insecure 3 month ago, when they dropped reward from 347 down to 50, but kept quiet about this, the whole time.

sound more like a hostile takeover than community  

That is exactly what this is.  This person has been attacking BSTY and is trying to take miners and accusing GlobalBoost calling us liars and cheats.  We know people who support us don't believe such lies.  I urge him to make his own Yescrypt coin and compete, I guess this is how he runs things.  Lies now ensure his failure in the future.  Good luck.  

[CPUcoins]

There is no community take over, BSTYMaster is just an scammer. the discussion can be continue here

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=775289.0

Another community takeover...

looks like takeovers are now "in"...

No community take over?  You have no community over there.  Same people posting over and over and over.  You just started posting again, as far as people can see this coin was abandoned by the dev. Your words below.  But you did not do the last wallet update did you? https://github.com/ssdpool

There is no Developers. Only one developer Me.  This is my wallet

[hussar]

It is no lie. The 51% attack can easily be made by anybody, because your coin is INSECURE.
Bittrex agrees! they delisted your coin.

As of now, anybody can do it like this:

in main.cpp:
bool ProcessBlock(CValidationState &state, CNode* pfrom, CBlock* pblock, CDiskBlockPos *dbp)
{
   if(pfrom!=NULL) { return true;   }   // refuse foreign blocks   <<<< INSERT THIS LINE

    // Check for duplicate


Then compile, start daemon, start pool, and if you can get like 50 computers in your pool, you'll take them over

Mining BSTY is a joke right now!

They completely became insecure 3 month ago, when they dropped reward from 347 down to 50, but kept quiet about this, the whole time.

sound more like a hostile takeover than community  

That is exactly what this is.  This person has been attacking BSTY and is trying to take miners and accusing GlobalBoost calling us liars and cheats.  We know people who support us don't believe such lies.  I urge him to make his own Yescrypt coin and compete, I guess this is how he runs things.  Lies now ensure his failure in the future.  Good luck.  

that's interesting. i also didn't notice that bittrex de-listed this coin.
am i right to assume that there are less than 50 computers keeping the network up?

[TimC]

It is no lie. The 51% attack can easily be made by anybody, because your coin is INSECURE.
Bittrex agrees! they delisted your coin.

As of now, anybody can do it like this:

in main.cpp:
bool ProcessBlock(CValidationState &state, CNode* pfrom, CBlock* pblock, CDiskBlockPos *dbp)
{
   if(pfrom!=NULL) { return true;   }   // refuse foreign blocks   <<<< INSERT THIS LINE

    // Check for duplicate


Then compile, start daemon, start pool, and if you can get like 50 computers in your pool, you'll take them over

Mining BSTY is a joke right now!

They completely became insecure 3 month ago, when they dropped reward from 347 down to 50, but kept quiet about this, the whole time.

sound more like a hostile takeover than community  

That is exactly what this is.  This person has been attacking BSTY and is trying to take miners and accusing GlobalBoost calling us liars and cheats.  We know people who support us don't believe such lies.  I urge him to make his own Yescrypt coin and compete, I guess this is how he runs things.  Lies now ensure his failure in the future.  Good luck.  

that's interesting. i also didn't notice that bittrex de-listed this coin.
am i right to assume that there are less than 50 computers keeping the network up?

Almost all of the hash is on one pool (http://bsty.nonce-pool.com) and it shows to have 125 workers. So yes a low amount of computer trying to secure the block chain. The coin was 51% attached with 50 I7s.

[teastman1000]

Bittrex has disabled the wallet, not sure they've actually delisted it though. Usually they give some warning when they do that.

[bstymaster]

They DELETED all my posts on the BSTY thread. Although I speak the truth, and I haven't done any doublespend.

Anyway, what I think we should do, is go ahead with the fork.

And we talk to bittrex to list BSTY2.
BSTY is not yet delisted, but give it another 51%, if they ever enable it again and go figure...

So anybody who's has BSTY, or simply wants to mine, please install the modified wallet. Everything you have on BSTY before block 29200, will be preserved in BSTY2

And let's get going.  Please post to this thread, and let people know about it.
Perhaps there is a pool owner who would like to make a BSTY2 pool.
If not, I will setup a pool. We get some hashpower in.  I can help with that , until more miners join in.

BSTY and BSTY2 will have the same coins until block 29200, but since there's no real chance of BSTY ever being listed again, BSTY2 will be the only one to continue

So please post your comments to this thread.  I'd like to see who will support it.

Nobody deletes messages here.

[bstymaster]

They have survived nothing! I simply stopped, following the Bittrex delisting.
They still don't have hashpower, I can do it again anytime, and I posted instructions on how to do it.

I am not a terrorist. They don't have the hashpower to secure the coin, I exposed this and then stopped.

Hello,
We have survived a malicious attack by a cyber terrorist.  I have deleted all of the attackers posts to help protect the company.  I will have more updates soon.


Bruce Porter, Jr.
CEO GloablBoost Ltd

As for the profit calculator, it gives valid results only if the hashpower stays unchanged, if a few miners join, difficulty will increase and the profits will drop. That's why nobody joins.
Besides, you can't sell the coin anyway, bittrex banned them because it's a scam, so your profit will be 0.

I found this $BSTY mining calculator by Bitmakler showing profitability calculations in Dollars and Rubles.  Let's talk "dollars & cents".  
The price of $BSTY has certainly been rising and will continue to gain value.
http://en.bitmakler.com/GlobalBoostY___mining

James Porter
Executive Director GlobalBoost
Top Sales Rep BMW
https://twitter.com/HardCoreAds

[djm34]

They have survived nothing! I simply stopped, following the Bittrex delisting.
They still don't have hashpower, I can do it again anytime, and I posted instructions on how to do it.

I am not a terrorist. They don't have the hashpower to secure the coin, I exposed this and then stopped.

nope you are not a terrorist, just a moron (doesn't mean terrorists aren't morons too... but you, you just belong to the moron type  )
and no exchange will ever follow a "nobody" doing an hostile takeover (and they won't even follow "known" people doing it)

[Yanakitu Tenatako]

Hello,

I mined BSTY from start and still I am mining with some power.
My address is Y9fqCFNCSfToTrrDAJ5K3M7Ac64R7fohQs
As you can see I am in top 10 richlist.
At current there are around 80 CPUs @ my farm, mostly of them are I5 3470, some 3770 and some slower.
Do not know what to say. I mined for it, with my own computers, paid for electricity, lost time and time to accumulate it.

Now there is a takeover, and for sure it is BAD SITUATION.
I did not cause it. I am just supporter of BSTY.

As a matter fact, I don't give a   s.h.i.t.  for this "hostage" situation. Price is too low now and after all this will never be bigger again.
Money I spent for mining this was my decision, so this also is:

Do as you like, I really don't care, this is stupid story and hope all of you will eat your own poop.
You are all greedy bastards.




  

[WigitGetIt]

Hello,

I mined BSTY from start and still I am mining with some power.
My address is Y9fqCFNCSfToTrrDAJ5K3M7Ac64R7fohQs
As you can see I am in top 10 richlist.
At current there are around 80 CPUs @ my farm, mostly of them are I5 3470, some 3770 and some slower.
Do not know what to say. I mined for it, with my own computers, paid for electricity, lost time and time to accumulate it.

Now there is a takeover, and for sure it is BAD SITUATION.
I did not cause it. I am just supporter of BSTY.

As a matter fact, I don't give a   s.h.i.t.  for this "hostage" situation. Price is too low now and after all this will never be bigger again.
Money I spent for mining this was my decision, so this also is:

Do as you like, I really don't care, this is stupid story and hope all of you will eat your own poop.
You are all greedy bastards.

Thank You for your support and mining efforts.  It is greatly appreciated.

[bstymaster]

Then allow me to retort!

Your coins are worth NOTHING as in ZERO, due to Bittrex delisting.
Your coin is insecure, and it continues to be. If you support the BSTY team, you lose all value of your coins.

All the GlobalBoost trolls, please keep posting here, you are just making my point.
A coin is not secured by fake posts and fake volume, but with hashpower.



edit:
You are the moron. You just understand what's happened. You mine and hold a lemon!
The coin is insecure, if you were smart, you would start mining the 1024 reward version, if you don't want to waste your electricity and be able to sell your coins.

In any case, thank you for your comments!

Do not know what to say. I mined for it, with my own computers, paid for electricity, lost time and time to accumulate it.

Now there is a takeover, and for sure it is BAD SITUATION.
I did not cause it. I am just supporter of BSTY.

As a matter fact, I don't give a   s.h.i.t.  for this "hostage" situation. Price is too low now and after all this will never be bigger again.
Money I spent for mining this was my decision, so this also is:

Do as you like, I really don't care, this is stupid story and hope all of you will eat your own poop.
You are all greedy bastards.

And sorry? how exactly am I a greedy bastard? I've made no money on this!
I am trying to save the coin. And what I've mined I sent to the bstdev, it's worthless anyway.
blelow are the tx ids
8149.977 f70c1001ce72b3680774859f26e54d1fe83fd952ddc697cd5ae62e7bdb3ddef7
1500       56f75a505a446a02401fac06b8bbd357d3a9eac86f3a98f59fa408dc77b08e31
200         d31108b1635107f578a1c6ae68e01d7a2c485cb47c8c022a51041134c53b16eb

[CPUcoins]

GlobalBoost will not answer simple questions from investors.  2 times these questions have been deleted.  Proof below.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=775289.1540

https://i.imgur.com/fOUR4V7.png

[bstymaster]

I just have to point out that GPU miner would NOT fix the issue. They will still have low hashrate because of the low rewards.
I might no longer be able to 51% attack myself, but somebody with 50 GPU's can.  And there are plenty of people who have that. That's why I explained how to do the 51% attack, so everybody knows how.

But anyway, GlobalBoost is a bunch of salesmen and an IT guy who they call dev.  They can't make a GPU miner. And at this reward, I don't see why anybody would make one for them.
They can change algorithm, but still nobody would have incentive to mine. There will still be many people who can 51% attack.
Or they can make PoS and then it's going to dump. Why would anyone invest in that crap? Buy coin with fake volume, from douche salesmen, everybody knows better... I hope. Right?

Only fix is increasing the reward.

CPU coin is probably the best way fight centralization, but you do need to pay the miners, so that the average joe makes at least a few cents a day, using his idle cpu time.  If that can be achieved, then it's a matter of getting millions of users to mine, and then not even botnets can attack. So it all boils down to giving incentive for mining. And that's exactly what I requested.

While I support the continuation of this coin, with the 1024 reward, I believe that a GPU miner may be feasible for Yescrypt. Once again, BSTY dev cannot possibly make one. Nor would it do you any good unless reward is increased.

[djm34]

I just have to point out that GPU miner would NOT fix the issue. They will still have low hashrate because of the low rewards.
I might no longer be able to 51% attack myself, but somebody with 50 GPU's can.  And there are plenty of people who have that. That's why I explained how to do the 51% attack, so everybody knows how.

your noobiness is exposed everywhere together with your ignorance:

* Large reward doesn't make coin more successful, many coins at the moment have reward around 5-50.
* Also investors don't like large reward and infinite supply because it kills their investment
* increasing the reward in an existing coin is mostly stupid as it means people mined for nothing before that, so it would just kill the coin
* hostile takeover: will kill the coin, because no exchange will accept it. So in case it would work, the coin would be left without exchange meaning it would be dead.
* your noobie account: nobody knows you, meaning no one will follow you, hence again that will destroy the coin
* regarding gpu miner this is in negotiation with the dev team (I think I can do that  )


Sorry again but your are a moron motivated by greed who didn't even put many thought in his action

[bstymaster]

your noobiness is exposed everywhere together with your ignorance:

sure, all noobs do 51% attacks, everyday.

* Large reward doesn't make coin more successful, many coins at the moment have reward around 5-50.
* Also investors don't like large reward and infinite supply because it kills their investment

So why did they start it with 347 then, you should have used 50 from the beginning.
I tell you why, because they're douchebag salesmen, that's why.

* increasing the reward in an existing coin is mostly stupid as it means people mined for nothing before that, so it would just kill the coin
* hostile takeover: will kill the coin, because no exchange will accept it. So in case it would work, the coin would be left without exchange meaning it would be dead.

BSTY coin is already dead, can't kill a dead coin. It's been dead since 1/12/2015, when they dropped the reward

* your noobie account: nobody knows you, meaning no one will follow you, hence again that will destroy the coin

Your old accounts mean what? that you're long time bullshiters. Ok some idiots will follow you.
Me, I've proven myself, I don't need an old account.
Did Satoshi Nakamoto have any reputation when he started BTC? He used a new account as well. But he did provide the code. Like I did.
Your bullshit salesmen tactics don't work in the cryptoworld. Just sell your computers, you're too stupid for the internets.

* regarding gpu miner this is in negotiation with the dev team (I think I can do that  )

That's great, make sure they pay you real BTC, not that fake BSTY.
Anyhow, it won't solve their problem, why waste your gpu time and energy to not get paid on BSTY, when you can mine DRK. or whatever. anything pays better than ZERO.

[bstymaster]

Sure enough, another deletion from the GlobalBoost marketing thread, by Mr. Bruce Porter Jr., a well known free speech activist.

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

Still trying to scam people, with giveaways now ?

Increase the reward, you imbecile! That's how you get new miners.
Or subsidize mining out of your own pocket!
Or pump the coin!  (if you're a holder, you have to pump, nobody will do that for you, no matter how much fake volume you make)

All of the above are very reasonable
For the miner, it's all the same really.

But what you're proposing is lottery scam.

You salesmen never learn. This is the cryptoworld, your bs tactics don't work here.

If you're sick of all this BS, join the community takeover thread.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1016617.0;all

Good to see that NoncePool is not holding all the hash rate anymore.  We have a lot of great pools MPOS and P2P.  Please post some suggestions on what we can do to attract new miners.  A CPU giveaway or a desktop PC giveaway, any Reasonable Suggestions will be considered.

[djm34]

your noobiness is exposed everywhere together with your ignorance:

sure, all noobs do 51% attacks, everyday.

oooh big secret, it is explained everywhere   (you are just ridiculous there).
I know how to do a 51% attack   Who cares ?!
That's makes you an hostile attacker not a coin dev hence nobody should ever trust to be a coin dev

* Large reward doesn't make coin more successful, many coins at the moment have reward around 5-50.
* Also investors don't like large reward and infinite supply because it kills their investment

So why did they start it with 347 then, you should have used 50 from the beginning.
I tell you why, because they're douchebag salesmen, that's why.

well, at least you know who they are, nobody knows who you are (and quite frankly we don't care either) or what your credential are
You are just a common troll like those we see on bitcointalk... who can do a 51% attack (big deal  ), it doesn't mean you can manage a coin, it just mean you are a douchebag who can't create his own coin, who has no team behind him...

* increasing the reward in an existing coin is mostly stupid as it means people mined for nothing before that, so it would just kill the coin
* hostile takeover: will kill the coin, because no exchange will accept it. So in case it would work, the coin would be left without exchange meaning it would be dead.

BSTY coin is already dead, can't kill a dead coin. It's been dead since 1/12/2015, when they dropped the reward

If you think it is dead why bother: move along, you are just losing everybody's time...

* your noobie account: nobody knows you, meaning no one will follow you, hence again that will destroy the coin

Your old accounts mean what? that you're long time bullshiters. Ok some idiots will follow you.
Me, I've proven myself, I don't need an old account.
Did Satoshi Nakamoto have any reputation when he started BTC? He used a new account as well. But he did provide the code. Like I did.
Your bullshit salesmen tactics don't work in the cryptoworld. Just sell your computers, you're too stupid for the internets.

As you said yourself, he started btc, he didn't takeover someone else coin on some false pretends.
and quite frankly he did a little more than claiming he can do a 51% attack...

May-be I am too stupid for internet (very likely when it comes to discuss with troll like you), but you nothing else than a
pretentious and arrogant prick who think he is Satoshi, because he read somewhere on the forum how to do a 51% attacks.
Sound to me like a teenager. So go back to school and learn in the mean time some manners and come back once you'll have stop
to believe you are the center of the universe and we should worship you because you know how to do a 51% attack...


ps: and stop your salesman attack, who the fuck do you think you are ?? (and I am not a salesman).

[WigitGetIt]

LOL That is actually funny

[coolindark]

Ahhhh... OMG... you just wasted my 5 minutes to read all of these posts because of your PM...

I'm a pool owner as my pool is listed from the very beginning on BSTY website. This coin can have very low hashrate but all this shit happens everytime because of greed... People just come and use the good block reward times and when the reward turns to normal, all of them start crying... Please move along... PLEAAASEEE! If you have known a tiny peace of enonomics you should know less money always has more value.

If people don't run after price drops, everyone can earn good moneys. That's why BTC is always kicks asses. BTC is the elder coin which had no alternatives before and this made people hold it.

Stop crying and gather people to mine...

[bstymaster]

Ahhhh... OMG... you just wasted my 5 minutes to read all of these posts because of your PM...

I'm a pool owner as my pool is listed from the very beginning on BSTY website. This coin can have very low hashrate but all this shit happens everytime because of greed... People just come and use the good block reward times and when the reward turns to normal, all of them start crying... Please move along... PLEAAASEEE! If you have known a tiny peace of enonomics you should know less money always has more value.

If people don't run after price drops, everyone can earn good moneys. That's why BTC is always kicks asses. BTC is the elder coin which had no alternatives before and this made people hold it.

Stop crying and gather people to mine...

FYI BTC is on a nosedive for more than a year now, not a good example. And don't teach me economics and cryptocoins, when you don't even understand what's the hashpower used for.

Pay the miners if you want them to mine.  It's that simple. You holders think that people should mine for free, and wait for rewards in 20 years. Mining costs money. Pay us!  Not everybody is into ponzi games, but if you pay we do the mining for you, that's all.

Right now as I proposed it, the reward will stay at 1024 for the next 4 years.

If the 347 reward would have stayed there for 4 years, you wouldn't have this problem right now.

Let me make this clear for you, you do not have this problem because of me, but because of the hashrate. If you had 100 MH I couldn't have attacked you, if you had 1GH even better. If you cut payments on block 17291, that's what you get.

But if you keep it like this, you are all bagholders.
Let's give it a few weeks, until you are desperate, then bstdev will make the increase himself. I don't care if it's now or in 2 weeks, I don't have any BSTY, all I had I threw it away.

[bstymaster]

OMG this Bruce Porter Jr. never sleeps. Maybe he's a bot. Maybe he's even a bot-net! Who knows?!! He deleted this one in less than 10 seconds. Whooppeee!
Have no fear though! no deletions going on in my thread.

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave.

You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations.

Maybe it's better to have a CPU-only mineable crypto. I mined this one for this.

I agree with that, but we have had a hard time recruiting cpu miners.  Any help you can provide with cpu miners would be great.

Yes, it's hard to recruit cpu miners, when you don't pay. Same goes for gpu miners, or even asic.
I can help you with cpu mining, if you PAY ME! Oh no, don't get started now, that is if you increase the block reward, so I can get paid for mining, me and every other miner.

Anyhow, I started this takeover thread. Once y'all are done taking orders from the porter family, join me. I don't give orders, I give solutions.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1016617.0;all

[MaxDZ8]

Since I have been asked[1] to write about my position regarding BSTY and I found those legit questions I have decided to cross-post this in both the official and the "takeover" thread.

My interest in this coin stems from the unique algo. Due to life issues, I have been away from programming a couple of years and I really needed to update my skills to modern GPU methodologies. In theory I should be doing something more useful but since mining is a relatively compact problem it's a decent problem for starters.
I have kept an eye on it also because I like the idea of an existing company using an extra tool to grow. If they want to use the coin for profit and it turns out to be a good coin anyway, then we have common interest.

I am an occasional miner. Just to give you an idea, I have mined ~10k MYR in about a year. I don't think I hold any BSTY.
I might or might not mine it in the future, I got no plan. Sure no mining as you guys talk about it: I sell my extra electricity at an higher cost than you would consider "too high to mine".

It seems I have a feat for picking up coins which get screwed.

I had some feelings the hashrate was going low; I was honestly happy that was not my problem. I have difficulty understanding how changing the reward would change anything at this point. The value was nonsensically low last month anyway. I did read somewhere about the reward change; I don't consider it clearly broken even though I don't see much good reasons to do that. I am not against turning profit either so if this change rewarded early adopters more than it rewards current adopters... I cannot even tell if this is good or bad.
Has the BSTY team got "unfair profit" from this? I don't think so. I would have to look at the blockchain. In theory, I am not against that. It doesn't feel like DRK or BCN anyway.


[1] Probably due to being mentioned in this message. Let me be clear, I am mildly amused GPUs are called to the rescue. Everyone who thinks GPUs are "evil" of "nothing new" must have been living under a rock for the last 20 years (ignorant) or on Intel payroll (paid to talk shit).
That said, my miner has stronger priorities right now and I cannot estimate any timeframe for any eventual release including yescrypt even though I have some parts ready. Besides, having a 7750 I cannot offer any support to other models. Sure thing is the last pwxform isn't going to be fast it needs some bigger picture thinking.

[bstymaster]

Thank you for your response! One of the few constructive ones I got so far.

I am an occasional miner. Just to give you an idea, I have mined ~10k MYR in about a year. I don't think I hold any BSTY.

that's exactly the kind of miner a cpu coin needs. just that it needs 100,000's of them.

I sell my extra electricity at an higher cost than you would consider "too high to mine".

not sure exactly what you mean by that. you would mine even if your costs are higher than your reward?
with cpu it's good that your only cost is the electric bill, the computer is not a cost, as you already use it for other purposes.

It seems I have a feat for picking up coins which get screwed.

It's not you! I had the same feeling over and over until I came up with a theory.
Some coins get screwed from the start. That's for sure.
But all coins get screwed eventually because of the deflationary model.  Or at least that's my theory.
The faster the deflate, the sooner they'll be doomed. BSTY is a great example of this.
So wait, did I just make a blasphemy here? I think so! It's like the cryptobible says that inflation is the doom of normal money, and their deflationary model is the solution. WRONG!

Let me explain why:
The faster a coin reduces reward, the more obvious the following effect will be.
At start there is the highest block reward, and the lowest hashpower.
So the early miners will get tons of coins, at a very very low cost. So there it is: inflation right from the start. The bitcoin model fails to reduce inflation, it simply puts inflation right there from the beginning.
The only way not to fail now is that these early miners will pretend they never mined the coin at all, and never sell it. This is absurd and insane. Ultimately people need money and will sell some of it.

So my workaround to this problem is to have the block reward proportional to the difficulty. This creates inflation still, however it changes the holders of these inflated coin. You will get inflated coins, but for higher hashpower, so there is a minimum amount you'd be willing to sell for. You need to compensate for electric costs, so this will help. I'm not sure if it eventually works out, but at least it's a workaround for the initial inflation issue. I'd say it's better to give many coins to people who invested lots of electricity than to the first people. There is no good reason why the early miners should have it all, not at all. This is simply PONZI and that's why all of them fail.

Real money works with inflation too, their inflation mechanism may be different than what I'm proposing but they do work better than cryptocoins.

My inflation mechanism is similar to farming. If more people start farming wheat, more flour will be produced. That's what happens in real world. So either the flour price drops, or the demand increases and then is successful.

I had some feelings the hashrate was going low; I was honestly happy that was not my problem. I have difficulty understanding how changing the reward would change anything at this point. The value was nonsensically low last month anyway. I did read somewhere about the reward change; I don't consider it clearly broken even though I don't see much good reasons to do that. I am not against turning profit either so if this change rewarded early adopters more than it rewards current adopters... I cannot even tell if this is good or bad.
Has the BSTY team got "unfair profit" from this? I don't think so. I would have to look at the blockchain. In theory, I am not against that. It doesn't feel like DRK or BCN anyway.

They haven't got the unfair profit, because I stopped them when they were just about to get it. That's why they're mad at me.
But I haven't created the problem, I just exposed it. Having low hashpower is the problem, and is the result of their reward structure.
Their profit relied on nobody exposing it, and I'm sure they didn't even realize they had the problem in the first place. You did, but I'm pretty sure they didn't.

If a GPU miner can be made for this coin, then it's a good thing to make it, it simply exposes that this is not a cpu coin. Or if the performance advantage is not so big, then it will be a CPU/GPU coin.

GPU coins are ultimately evil because it moves mining from the average user to the professional miners, therefore creating centralization, and making it possible for a single entity to have over 51%.
With CPU mining a professional miner cannot compete with the casual user, who has the hardware for free, he only pays the electric bill for mining. But for the casual user to get  in and make a difference, a lot of them have to join in. So there must be a reward higher than the electricity cost. This is hardly the case with BSTY and not really the case with any other coins either.
If there would always be some profit for the casual user, then millions will eventually join in, making it the most secure coin ever created.

So yeah, lets increase the reward, that's the only solution, GPU or not. Also minimum reward that makes sense is 347, but I advocate to experiment with higher reward, let's see what happens.
It must attract many miners, therefore it will have a strong hashpower. Miners ultimately give value to the coin, so we may actually see a coin value increase.
Other thing that can give value to a coin would be anonymity, I also proposed it and am willing to code it.

[MaxDZ8]

I sell my extra electricity at an higher cost than you would consider "too high to mine".
with cpu it's good that your only cost is the electric bill, the computer is not a cost, as you already use it for other purposes.

not sure exactly what you mean by that. you would mine even if your costs are higher than your reward?

I already mine_{1} occasionally at higher cost than what I get. I would probably need more than a 10x to just break even with operating costs.

You don't need to explain me how using my computer for other needs amortizes cost. The whole point of my miner is that it's fire and forget. I mined while playing Qbeh-1_{2} but for some more AAA action I'm currently mining and playing Borderlands 2_{3}!

My current CPU is an AMD 450 X3. It does not seem to have the power consumption characteristics you mention. Besides, being passively cooled, I cannot run it full load for much time and I don't see any good reason for which anyone should buy more powerful stuff.

If a GPU miner can be made for this coin, then it's a good thing to make it, it simply exposes that this is not a cpu coin. Or if the performance advantage is not so big, then it will be a CPU/GPU coin.

GPUs have become proper turing-complete architectures about a decade ago therefore they can run everything a CPU can whatever they're efficient at this is another matter. Yescrypt is not compute-oriented and therefore won't be accelerated by compute-oriented architectures.

{1} Mostly MYR and DBG. Sometimes also Fresh and FTC for testing.
{2} Pretty sure it's some UDK build. Due to some unfortunate design decision, massive overdraw and fillrate. Shading is basically from the 90s so plenty of untapped power. Still a quite simple game. It's not buttersmooth but very playable.
{3} Unreal 3, targeting X360 I have been told. Still quite simple graphically, I am almost at max settings. Again, not buttersmooth but playable.

[bstymaster]

You don't need to explain me how using my computer for other needs amortizes cost. The whole point of my miner is that it's fire and forget. I mined while playing Qbeh-1_{2} but for some more AAA action I'm currently mining and playing Borderlands 2_{3}!

I see things the other way around. Most people buy computers because they have other needs than mining. Most probably don't even consider mining when they buy it.
However if they later find they can earn a few bucks each month mining, while the computer is idle, why not. It may even turn out that mining will amortize the whole computer cost within a year or two, so this would be really sweet. Lots of people will join in to mine. So the mining reward is very important, if you want to get all these users. And you do want to get all of them, to make a coin secure.
Consider a coin with 100 million home-miners. That's pretty tough even for a government to attack. If not impossible. If the incentive is there, they will come eventually.

If you want fire-and-forget miner, most already are, they set priority to IDLE, or even a better way to do it is to set it to  PROCESS_MODE_BACKGROUND_BEGIN (win32).
And you can tune it a bit, if it still hinders your performance, so you won't feel it at all when running (other than hearing the vents revving).

My current CPU is an AMD 450 X3. It does not seem to have the power consumption characteristics you mention. Besides, being passively cooled, I cannot run it full load for much time and I don't see any good reason for which anyone should buy more powerful stuff.

That in particular won't be too good, but the majority of cpus are decent enough to turn a profit, if the right reward is there. What I'm talking about is bringing mining to the masses.

GPUs have become proper turing-complete architectures about a decade ago therefore they can run everything a CPU can whatever they're efficient at this is another matter. Yescrypt is not compute-oriented and therefore won't be accelerated by compute-oriented architectures.

I'm not criticizing GPUs in general. But the fact is that the wide majority of users don't have a GPU that will turn a profit when mining. Once again, my goal would be getting *most* people into mining.

The advantage over purpose built mining rigs is simply security. You can't compete with the kind of computing power that all the average users combined would bring into cryptos.

GPUs are still ok, many users still have them, and they're readily available at your local computer store.
However GPU algorithms can be implemented into ASICs if the incentive is there, that's why they're evil. So it's easy for a government to attack these kinds of coins.

And the worst case scenario is bitcoin. Governments, have the ability to do a 51% percent attack on bitcoin right now at no cost, if they pass a law to seize all the ASIC farms.
You probably already know, but since it's a public thread, let me make the point that ASIC farms exist because of the economics of manufacturing and purchasing ASICs, you'll get them a lot cheaper if you buy this hardware in mass. You can even develop it, at this level.
And I believe (though I might be incorrect) that cex.io alone has enough hashpower to 51% attack bitcoin right now. If they're legitimate they have no incentive to do it, but still they put all the hardware in one place, ready for the government to seize. Hence, the evilness.

[Atomicat]

You don't need to explain me how using my computer for other needs amortizes cost. The whole point of my miner is that it's fire and forget. I mined while playing Qbeh-1_{2} but for some more AAA action I'm currently mining and playing Borderlands 2_{3}!

I see things the other way around. Most people buy computers because they have other needs than mining. Most probably don't even consider mining when they buy it.
However if they later find they can earn a few bucks each month mining, while the computer is idle, why not. It may even turn out that mining will amortize the whole computer cost within a year or two, so this would be really sweet. Lots of people will join in to mine. So the mining reward is very important, if you want to get all these users. And you do want to get all of them, to make a coin secure.
Consider a coin with 100 million home-miners. That's pretty tough even for a government to attack. If not impossible. If the incentive is there, they will come eventually.

If you want fire-and-forget miner, most already are, they set priority to IDLE, or even a better way to do it is to set it to  PROCESS_MODE_BACKGROUND_BEGIN (win32).
And you can tune it a bit, if it still hinders your performance, so you won't feel it at all when running (other than hearing the vents revving).

My current CPU is an AMD 450 X3. It does not seem to have the power consumption characteristics you mention. Besides, being passively cooled, I cannot run it full load for much time and I don't see any good reason for which anyone should buy more powerful stuff.

That in particular won't be too good, but the majority of cpus are decent enough to turn a profit, if the right reward is there. What I'm talking about is bringing mining to the masses.

GPUs have become proper turing-complete architectures about a decade ago therefore they can run everything a CPU can whatever they're efficient at this is another matter. Yescrypt is not compute-oriented and therefore won't be accelerated by compute-oriented architectures.

I'm not criticizing GPUs in general. But the fact is that the wide majority of users don't have a GPU that will turn a profit when mining. Once again, my goal would be getting *most* people into mining.

The advantage over purpose built mining rigs is simply security. You can't compete with the kind of computing power that all the average users combined would bring into cryptos.

GPUs are still ok, many users still have them, and they're readily available at your local computer store.
However GPU algorithms can be implemented into ASICs if the incentive is there, that's why they're evil. So it's easy for a government to attack these kinds of coins.

And the worst case scenario is bitcoin. Governments, have the ability to do a 51% percent attack on bitcoin right now at no cost, if they pass a law to seize all the ASIC farms.
You probably already know, but since it's a public thread, let me make the point that ASIC farms exist because of the economics of manufacturing and purchasing ASICs, you'll get them a lot cheaper if you buy this hardware in mass. You can even develop it, at this level.
And I believe (though I might be incorrect) that cex.io alone has enough hashpower to 51% attack bitcoin right now. If they're legitimate they have no incentive to do it, but still they put all the hardware in one place, ready for the government to seize. Hence, the evilness.

The higher rewards at the beginning structure is completely 180 to what it should be.  This is what kills coins... Cypher right now...

Rank   Donor   User Name   KH/s    CYPHER/Day   BTC/Day
1              anonymous   9,614,267   154,653.797   6.6501
2             anonymous   775,289   12,471.198   0.5363
3             anonymous   252,787   4,066.303     0.1749
4              Monero30     158,558   2,550.538     0.1097
5              GPdigger      132,088   2,124.745     0.0914

Net hash... 32 Gh/s.   One user.. NINE Gh/s???  A QUARTER of the network?!?

Or START...

Rank   Donor   User Name   KH/s            START/Day
1              overxltc           2,266,663     2,929.652
2              overnoob       2,124,156     2,745.463
3              overx11           934,766           1,208.181
4              neptvey           405,496           524.101
5              anonymous   399,217         515.986

Pool rate of 12 Gh/s, with 8,000+ users.  Sick!  Now combine that MASSIVE level of disparity with that reward structure?  Why the hell would anyone want to mine a coin that's already mostly owned by under ten miners, or possibly only ONE!  I honestly don't even know why anyone participates in a system like this.  This is the last thing you want for network security.  It's called a "distributed" network for a reason.

So are we inventing new currency or just another tool for speculative purposes?  Currency is meant to be used, and carried around in your pocket... like as in your phone.... so, coin... only mined with Android device, the 'wallet' that you carry around.   To prevent virtual node farms, link it to a mobile phone number.  Now nobody has much of an advantage, the network has the distribution it needs, and it's actually useful.

Might want to check out MUE.  Good dev, good philosophy, launched with no hype and with slow steady growth.  Right now the GPU implementation of Quark algo gives GPU's about a 10:1 advantage (on my machine, 7970+R9-290 on an FX-8350).  I think that's about the closest we've got right now to a GPU/CPU hybrid.

Edit:  Holy crap!  Worst case yet!  Vanilla:


Rank   Donor   User Name   KH/s            VNL/Day
1              anonymous   99,931,580   13,910.653
2              kuyiuyzj           63,457,932   8,833.457
3              anonymous   9,162,597           1,275.450
4              vnl1234           8,142,145           1,133.401
5              anonymous   7,884,051           1,097.474
6              anonymous   6,751,714          939.851

Net hash of 300 Gh/s.  Two users have 51%+

7

[CPUcoins]

GlobalBoost not answering questions, rather delete posts.  BSTY is hiding something.  Weak hashes on the networks.

http://s2.postimg.org/ld90y44bt/BSTYDisabled4.png

[bstymaster]

Glad to see some genuine interest in my topic!

Might want to check out MUE.  Good dev, good philosophy, launched with no hype and with slow steady growth.  Right now the GPU implementation of Quark algo gives GPU's about a 10:1 advantage (on my machine, 7970+R9-290 on an FX-8350).  I think that's about the closest we've got right now to a GPU/CPU hybrid.

The best CPU/GPU hybrid right now would be Monero (XMR) with cryptonight algo, which is a "big" coin. The advantage is 2,3x for the GPU.
There is also scrypt-chacha, than can be adjusted to be CPU/GPU or CPU only (though some specialized hardware could still be created).

I was proposing a cryptonote fork (like xmr), where we would also fix the recent security issues found with xmr, and use scrypt-chacha instead of cryptonight.
And use the inflationary coin distribution I proposed.

In the usual bitcoin model, that all coins now use, the biggest reward goes to the users who mined it FIRST. The advantage of this approach is for advertising. It was good for bitcoin, because there wasn't a cryptocoin community at that time, so this kind of incentive was necessary.  However, we can see it fail for altcoins, one after another, effectively turning all of them into ponzi schemes.
So essentially, an altcoin should reward the hashpower, not being there first. I think it makes a lot more sense, and it actually does encourage the coin to grow to millions of users. This is what we need now!

If I have some supporters, I will write the code.

[Highgod]

here is some news ?

I was see another coins volume miner,trading ,and i research,analyze,studied and think so much about all is happening with BSTY; and after makes this i see than maybe bstymaster is right or not so wrong.

because analysing some coins and model i see than the value of them happen. i see  they have a just only two things: this reward and way to make one Coin become will be bitcoins in comparisson level and In trade.
they have a lot of miners and trade in exchanges maybe the solution is change the reward as bstymaster said and  stay only with CPU mining like all coin can still alive for years without a be one passing wave begun.

PS:how much you increase the reward,more miners come and more trade volume we had and ist will be open the doors to we inovate the crypto-curreny universe with things this don't have.I had ideais for this,but first we need to grown.TO MOON... (It's after studied and analized i can confirm).

Maybe after then the coin have high value and "diff" be so hard we can made in right time GPU mining happening's and after, with the pass of diff and more hard it will be, we can join with asics antminers just like a bitcoin and litecoins just to ensure the permanancy and stability of this coin in the market.

thanks for your attention.

and sorry if is be a stupid thing a purpose to, but i just wanna help and i think than any ideas is maybe  the light of we need.

Victor.

[Highgod]

i post in the offical thread but no have more discussiion there so i post here too

in the comment than i made before i show to your i agree with bstymaster,he is right, see the cypher as example,they have a lot of miners,whatever how bstymaster explain before what the kill coin but, think a lot about it i see than if BSTY increase the reward to 347 or more maybe 800 or 1024 i don't now we made possible the back of coin to bittrex and get in on cryptsy soon with it purpose. but we do it just to begin and after the "diff" increase automatic and reduces the coin than we can made;just like bitcoin and litecoin use the increase difficult  with  time pass, but made we can innovate in this area to put equilibrium agree with the miners numbers like a how much more miners more diff increase a little,no much to not kill the coin.maybe is the solution.and stay only with CPU until diff is impossible to CPU just like bitcoin and litecoin we go to evolution hardware(GPUs after: asics and others) when diff is become so hard to determinate hardware.

thanks a lot for your attention.

Victor.

[bstymaster]

So far only you, me and CPUcoins want to fix BSTY.

Apparently the team has top men working on it :P:P:P, so they wait, and everybody else.
I assume most the coins are held by the BSTY team, that's why nobody else is complaining.
I don't know why they don't want to fix it. Waiting like this and doing nothing will kill it for sure.

About difficulty, this rises when miners join, and decreases when they leave. And miners join and leave mostly because of the block reward. Since the reward dropped 7x but the coin value didn't even increase 2x, everybody left. The solution is simple, increase block reward to attract miners.

Anyhow if BSTY refuses to do it, I will start a new coin, perhaps you can join me there. It will be a CPU coin, so anybody can mine. It's good when you hold a coin, to also mine it, to contribute to it's security. And with a cpu coin anyone can do it.

Regards

i post in the offical thread but no have more discussiion there so i post here too

in the comment than i made before i show to your i agree with bstymaster,he is right, see the cypher as example,they have a lot of miners,whatever how bstymaster explain before what the kill coin but, think a lot about it i see than if BSTY increase the reward to 347 or more maybe 800 or 1024 i don't now we made possible the back of coin to bittrex and get in on cryptsy soon with it purpose. but we do it just to begin and after the "diff" increase automatic and reduces the coin than we can made;just like bitcoin and litecoin use the increase difficult  with  time pass, but made we can innovate in this area to put equilibrium agree with the miners numbers like a how much more miners more diff increase a little,no much to not kill the coin.maybe is the solution.and stay only with CPU until diff is impossible to CPU just like bitcoin and litecoin we go to evolution hardware(GPUs after: asics and others) when diff is become so hard to determinate hardware.

thanks a lot for your attention.

Victor.

[Highgod]

yes because is come a lot of coins but almost of it is passing wave no have stability cause start with a gpu coin and gpu coin is so bad for any coin in begin cause had a lot of farm gpus with hundreds gpus and the others with weak power processor can't do almost nothen of coins.
...and the another factor is the anyone coin had not inovation is just other coin for miners mining and when diff is high they go way because don't have nothen diffrent is just to mine make profit and after coin die with the pass of the time. we can do one coin to make different not just beauty coin with same thing of always,but
one coin with the new ideas the new concept thats what i was want to BSTY make so diffrence and i had a lot of ideas for it.if you want my help and the bsty is just won't help of us we can make this happening.

thanks a lot.

[WigitGetIt]

Please see the latest post by bstdev.  As always we are open for discussions on changes.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=775289.msg11075779#msg11075779

Edit: Please feel free to join our IRC https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.kiwiirc.com/#GlobalBoost