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Author Topic: WTF just happened?  (Read 3500 times)
anu
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August 19, 2012, 02:59:21 PM
 #21

Pirate has said he was "in control of the entire market" for the past 9 months, and that appears to be proving true.

You can only ever be in control of a market that is not worth controlling.

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August 19, 2012, 03:07:32 PM
 #22

Notice how this was started deliberatly on a Friday, to run over the weeken when there is the least amount of cash available in the exchanges.

This way its possible to start a panic that pushes the price down, to buy back more as cheap as possible.

Since this is so obvious. If the only reason was to cash out and not buy back.
Pirate or whoever would have done so when there where as much money in the exchanges as possible.

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August 19, 2012, 03:12:17 PM
 #23

I'd say if you look back at the "sustained rally based on fundamentals", there's a very strong corelation between the start of the rally and the start of BCST. Pirate has said he was "in control of the entire market" for the past 9 months, and that appears to be proving true.

This might sound plausible, since it flatters our own ego.

But frankly, that's an deception. We allways tend to give too much meaning to events. Markets follow a semi-natural pattern of oscillations and constrained forces. The individual maket participants are just like statists which happen to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. Any halfway suitalbe event can serve to trigger a market movement which is iminent.

We all love being "in control"; it even makes us feel comfortable to imagine that someone else, someone "powerful" is in control
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August 19, 2012, 08:13:33 PM
 #24

I'd say if you look back at the "sustained rally based on fundamentals", there's a very strong corelation between the start of the rally and the start of BCST. Pirate has said he was "in control of the entire market" for the past 9 months, and that appears to be proving true.

This might sound plausible, since it flatters our own ego.

But frankly, that's an deception. We allways tend to give too much meaning to events. Markets follow a semi-natural pattern of oscillations and constrained forces. The individual maket participants are just like statists which happen to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. Any halfway suitalbe event can serve to trigger a market movement which is iminent.

We all love being "in control"; it even makes us feel comfortable to imagine that someone else, someone "powerful" is in control
I don't know how I'm "flattering my [our] own ego" -- unless you're talking about Pirate, in which case I totally agree that he's completely egotistical (and likely also a con man). He talked big, got people to believe him, and now the only real question is if he'll actually pay out to most of his investors or just disappear.

Personally, I bought in and sold several times during the rise, making small profits. Then I bought some more at $13.20 just before the rocket up to $15.40, but I thought it might keep going and was asleep during the initial sell off. When I came back we were at $11.20. I expected an ititial rebound but miscalculated and ended up selling at $12.90 or something. Of course, I'm dealing with pitifully small sums here -- less than 50BTC amounts.

Anyway, all I'm saying is Pirate claimed something and the charts appear to back that up. Is he lying? Very possible, but without seeing his books none of us can really know. You're right that these things follow patterns and there's plenty of unpredictability. There's also the "herd mentality" thing, which ties into BCST: he starts it, says it's doing great, people invest and make profits, they get excited, and it all creates a snowball ponzi effect. Then when it hits the inevitable dead end of all ponzis, the herd panics and goes the other way. I wasn't sure it would collapse this badly when the first plunge happened, but now we're at <$8 and apparently in freefall. It's a bubble and a burst bubble now, sure, but was it a Pirate-induced bubble or not? I'm inclined to say he had a substantial impact on the bubble if nothing else.

The Bitcoin market is certainly small enough that large-scale manipulation is entirely possible -- someone with 400K BTC could easily push most other investors/speculators around. All you have to do is watch the big bid/ask walls come and go, often just out of reach, to know people are at least trying to manipulate. If you can successfully get people to fall for manipulation (e.g. large walls at $5 and $5.50, with you selling and buying on a 10% spread), you start with a bunch of coins and come out of it with even more.

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August 19, 2012, 08:33:52 PM
 #25

The Bitcoin market is certainly small enough that large-scale manipulation is entirely possible -- someone with 400K BTC could easily push most other investors/speculators around.
The manipulators can try their big money manipulations. There is no guarantee they will make money.

Genuine long term investors have nothing to fear from manipulators. If we stick to our beliefs and buy on dips and hold for the long term, we will do okay.
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August 19, 2012, 08:48:51 PM
 #26

The Bitcoin market is certainly small enough that large-scale manipulation is entirely possible -- someone with 400K BTC could easily push most other investors/speculators around.
The manipulators can try their big money manipulations. There is no guarantee they will make money.

Genuine long term investors have nothing to fear from manipulators. If we stick to our beliefs and buy on dips and hold for the long term, we will do okay.

There's no guarantee, but it's a pretty good bet.

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August 19, 2012, 08:58:10 PM
 #27

There's no guarantee, but it's a pretty good bet.
I disagree.

How much did the manipulator have to spend to inflate the price? And how much did he recoup, from crashing the price?

A lot more bitcoins changed hands on the way up, than on the way down. I reckon he had to buy more on the way up than he could sell on the way down.
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August 19, 2012, 09:08:14 PM
 #28

After this pirate debacle, bitcoin will hopefully mature to something beyond what a single entity with a 2% stake can manipulate to this degree.

Anyone who didn't see this coming - or at least realize it was a distinct possibility - was simply naive or just doesn't understand market dynamics (at all!).

If you hand over all your money to someone with a peg-leg and an eyepatch calling himself a pirate, what can you expect! Welcome to the world of zero-regulation - it bites both ways! lol.

A certain WC Fields quote comes to mind...




                         
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August 19, 2012, 09:14:49 PM
 #29

After 6 mos of relative stability... this is a huge setback for BTC and most serious (i.e. commercial, non-speculative) bitcoin adopters.

If you count your cash with a scale, this won't deter, but for most legitimate businesses even 10-20% short term fluctuation makes it a non-starter.

                         
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.
TorCoin.....
¦
¦
¦
¦
  Fully Anonymous TOR-integrated Crypto
               ¦ Windows     ¦ Linux     ¦ GitHub     ¦ macOS
     ¦
     ¦
     ¦
     ¦
.
   ANN THREAD
     ¦
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[/center]
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August 19, 2012, 11:38:52 PM
 #30

well... I am still not convinced.
I still think we're falling for our natural tendency for simple reasons.

Recall, we still don't know who bought the huge chunks on the way up, and we still don't know who dumped.

Especially, it is rather likely, that pirate is just part of the game. It is likely that other mid-scale investors are about to get their money in. Who tell us that what we see is the work of a single person? This would be just to plain simple. Just recall, all this "pirate" gossip is now going on since weeks here in the forum. Then finally the news of the closing arrive, at a point where there is no doubt that the rally is already a bit too hot. And then the price corrects down a bit. What a surprise.
I'd bet that good deal of the more experienced traders have already sold off chunk-wise during the last ride from 12 to 16. That was just a bit too nice to be true, compared to the $5 of the stable time this spring. Maybe, after some oscilations, we'll get now a second try of an up trend, which is a bit more healthy.
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August 20, 2012, 01:04:09 AM
 #31

Why does everyone assume that the only funds pirate had was the deposits in bst?
Isn't it far more likely he had a lot more than that, and thus is even more capable of "nudging" the market?
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August 20, 2012, 01:05:12 AM
 #32

Why does everyone assume that the only funds pirate had was the deposits in bst?
Isn't it far more likely he had a lot more than that, and thus is even more capable of "nudging" the market?

Nudging the sheeply masses into a selling frenzy. It takes more than one person for the market to drop, for those that are arguing pirate is solely to blame

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