Bitcoin Savings & Trust - Money Returned List (One reported - CLOSED).

[SimonL]

I think we can easily get a verifiable grounding on whether pirate is returning, ask bitlane, the supposed user that pirate blames the rush on (which I think is BS BTW), he was the most vocal about not getting his deposit withdrawn on time (or, according to him the lines of "communication" were down), surely he would be the man to ask whether he had received his coins yet, since he was supposedly the one that was closed on immediately (hence automatically according to pirates policies, the first to have their funds reimbursed), no?

Edit: Oops, he's already put himself at the back of the list... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101152.msg1120790#msg1120790

[1714906351]

1714906351

[dissipate]

I'm just curious - for the people who are still standing up for pirate - can you name one good reason he's supposedly decided to keep accumulating an additional $50k+ of debt every day? If he was going to pay back wouldn't he have started immediately? Surely he can lay hands on at least part of it.

Well, Im not sure I want to be the guy to stand up for pirate, but to be fair, if he has some sort of deal with customers, like, I dont know, future contracts or whatever, its not unthinkable he has to dissolve/settle those contracts first before he can return the coins. Assuming he would have them, if he passed the coins on to some other party for whatever reason, it might take him some days (and of course, potentially, forever) to get them back.

This of course is the classic HYIP/Ponzi situation. "Funds are tied up, so sorry about the delay, perhaps over the coming months I can recoup some of the money..."

[n8rwJeTt8TrrLKPa55eU]

Well, Im not sure I want to be the guy to stand up for pirate, but to be fair, if he has some sort of deal with customers, like, I dont know, future contracts or whatever, its not unthinkable he has to dissolve/settle those contracts first before he can return the coins. Assuming he would have them, if he passed the coins on to some other party for whatever reason, it might take him some days (and of course, potentially, forever) to get them back.

That might be true, but the problem is that, due to the general atmosphere of FUD and non-news of the past 48hs, some "investors" are now accepting lowball offers on their debt and will take big losses due to fear of getting nothing.  So even if you assume it's not a Ponzi and he will pay out, he is indirectly screwing some of his former clients by not keeping them in the loop as to what exactly is going on with their payments.

If I was running a business where my reputation was at stake, and I had custodianship of other people's savings, I'd damn well make sure to answer all communications respectfully and let everyone know the exact status of the payout situation at least once a day.  If only so that my customers could sleep well at night.

So at this point, although it's not yet confirmed that it's a Ponzi, the past 48hs do seem to confirm that Pirate has no moral problem with his customers jumping off a cliff due to his own lack of transparency.

PS: these are unemotional outsider observations, I have no exposure, direct or indirect, to his business.

[Rockefoten]

That might be true, but the problem is that, due to the general atmosphere of FUD and non-news of the past 48hs, some "investors" are now accepting lowball offers on their debt and will take big losses due to fear of getting nothing.  So even if you assume it's not a Ponzi and he will pay out, he is indirectly screwing some of his former clients by not keeping them in the loop as to what exactly is going on with their payments.

If I was running a business where my reputation was at stake, and I had custodianship of other people's savings, I'd damn well make sure to answer all communications respectfully and let everyone know the exact status of the payout situation at least once a day.  If only so that my customers could sleep well at night.

So at this point, although it's not yet confirmed that it's a Ponzi, the past 48hs do seem to confirm that Pirate has no moral problem with his customers jumping off a cliff due to his own lack of transparency.

PS: these are unemotional outsider observations, I have no exposure, direct or indirect, to his business.

I agree 100%. It's all to clear how pirate doesn't care one bit for his lenders. If he pays everyone back and later comes up with a BS&T 2, I'll be sure to stay clear for this reason alone.

[GenTarkin]

I dont think we are gettin our btc back, lets face it =(

[dbox]

MODs should remove the long offer forum or post an avertisment.

[bogidu]

  Spare change?  1AZ7QeAnzW8ywfJPUS3DeiXxCmetYgUTLe

I'm saving up for the next big scam . . . . ASIC's!   

[P4man]

So at this point, although it's not yet confirmed that it's a Ponzi, the past 48hs do seem to confirm that Pirate has no moral problem with his customers jumping off a cliff due to his own lack of transparency.

Playing devil Pirate's advocate again; we dont know how much he told his customers. Remember there arent that many, and they generally seem quite confident. Its their customers customers, all the passthrough, bonds etc holders that are jumping off cliffs.

[ultramancool]

So at this point, although it's not yet confirmed that it's a Ponzi, the past 48hs do seem to confirm that Pirate has no moral problem with his customers jumping off a cliff due to his own lack of transparency.

Playing devil Pirate's advocate again; we dont know how much he told his customers. Remember there arent that many, and they generally seem quite confident. Its their customers customers, all the passthrough, bonds etc holders that are jumping off cliffs.

There are people selling BTCST accounts for under their face value, these people are pirate's direct customers and they have been left in the dark. Pirate is undeniably ignoring his customers' worries.

Disclaimer: I have 4 BTC in some friendly bets against pirate.

[n8rwJeTt8TrrLKPa55eU]

So at this point, although it's not yet confirmed that it's a Ponzi, the past 48hs do seem to confirm that Pirate has no moral problem with his customers jumping off a cliff due to his own lack of transparency.

Playing devil Pirate's advocate again; we dont know how much he told his customers. Remember there arent that many, and they generally seem quite confident. Its their customers customers, all the passthrough, bonds etc holders that are jumping off cliffs.

If this were found out to be true, it would reflect very poorly on the morality of first-level lenders if they had repayment information that they were not passing on, therefore artificially depressing (manipulating) the market on the securities they have sold.  It would make the collateral damage to Bitcoin and this forum's reputation much worse to have several bad actors instead of just one, so let's hope that those guys have the courage to do the right thing for their customers.

As the saying goes, when the tide goes out, you find out who's been swimming naked.  By the end of this month, we will have learned a lot about the reputation and moral character of several prominent people on this forum.

[Shadow383]

So at this point, although it's not yet confirmed that it's a Ponzi, the past 48hs do seem to confirm that Pirate has no moral problem with his customers jumping off a cliff due to his own lack of transparency.

Playing devil Pirate's advocate again; we dont know how much he told his customers. Remember there arent that many, and they generally seem quite confident. Its their customers customers, all the passthrough, bonds etc holders that are jumping off cliffs.

There are people selling BTCST accounts for under their face value, these people are pirate's direct customers and they have been left in the dark. Pirate is undeniably ignoring his customers' worries.

I'm actually more surprised that people are still buying BS&T accounts at all...

[Shadow383]

I'm sitting in #BTCST for the lulz:

"[22:44] <@pirateat40> Wouldn't it be fun to run with the coins though?  I could make history....  If i pay back, I just get forgotten. "

[22:55] <hashking> Pirate, what are you plans for your friend BITLANE
[22:55] <BTCKing> arrr
[22:55] <hashking> *your
[22:55] <BTCKing> lol... bitlane
[22:55] <@pirateat40> Trendon Shavers is a DBA, just to be fair.
[22:55] <ssst> bitlame
[22:55] == simonk83 [~CARLY@unaffiliated/simonk83] has joined #btcst
[22:55] <ssst> bitblame
[22:55] <vite> hashking: love your service, shame pirate is making it a pain for you to pay me the pirate deposit
[22:55] <ssst> bitshame
[22:55] <ssst> bitgame
[22:56] <michaelmclees> pirate, are you admitting you're connected to trendon shavers?
[22:56] <hashking> Thanks.  Pirate will payout.  Don't worry.
[22:56] <_sharpfocus> bitflame?
[22:56] <@pirateat40> hashking, i'm going to roast him a bit more well done than Vandroiy.
[22:56] <hashking> Nice.

[22:58] <ssst> pirateat40, i know your plan
[22:58] <ssst> devalue debt
[22:58] <ssst> buy debt for penny on the dollar
[22:58] <ssst> no debt
[22:58] <+jcpham> I use my nanny for all sorts of things also
[22:58] <dissipate> copumpkin, the 'contract' was he was going to be paid off on Monday with interest.
[22:58] <+jcpham> master manipulators
[22:58] <Joric> price is rising as we talk, we need more FUD
[22:58] <copumpkin> dissipate: not really
[22:58] <BTCKing> pirateat40 what are you going to do with your loot to celebrate
[22:58] == defactomacro [47a54a02@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.165.74.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
[22:58] <@pirateat40> ssst, you shall see soon enough.

[22:58] <+_matthew_> lol@theymos uppped his bet
[22:58] <+_matthew_> [ANN] A new bet placed! There are currently 1929.3 BTC in bets against pirate. Only 8070.7 BTC spots remaining! If you think Pirate is a ponzi, a scammer, or for any reason not going to pay within 3 weeks from today, bet (or hedge against) in this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101751

[23:00] <+jcpham> you could pay bitlane 1 btc per minute
[23:00] <dub> so that it takes months
[23:00] <+jcpham> as the price plummets
[23:00] <+reeses> I should offer bitlane 50%
[23:00] <+jcpham> that's be funny

[23:00] <zveda> hey pirateat40 can I have some money too ?
[23:00] <copumpkin> dissipate: there are varying degrees of burden, and a PM saying "yo stfu I'll do you by monday" is pretty low on the bindingness spectrum in my book
[23:00] <zveda> if u have some left over
[23:00] <dub> then _matthew_ should be beaten to death with whats left of bitlane
[23:00] <dissipate> copumpkin, in fact, BTCST was probably illegal from the beginning. not that i care, but thems the facts.
[23:01] <@pirateat40> zveda, I don't have enough to go around.

[wachtwoord]

What's DBA?

[Mousepotato]

What's DBA?

Doing Business As...

[P4man]

Interesting that he now claims the name is a pseudonym. I seem to recall him explaining the cheque fraud thing under that very name  here a long time ago.  Am I imagining that?

edit: I wasnt. Here it is:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=82849.msg912935#msg912935

Q - What's up with the check warrant?
A - Those of you that have contacted me about this knew really early on about it.  The check is for a tiny amount at a Lowe's hardware store in a city I lived in for two years back in 2002-2003.  The check is for some company I have never heard of and haven't been able to find any information about.  My drivers license number was written on the top of the check so it was associated with me. .....

[muyuu]

What's DBA?

Doing Business As...

Or DataBase Admin.

[wachtwoord]

What's DBA?

Doing Business As...

So it means Trendon Shavers is a?

Or DataBase Admin.

That was what I read initially too but the context kinda rules that out 

[bitlane]

So...
His wife, mother, father and 2 brothers are also fake ?

If he took the time to get that many people in place, including his twin sons...in order to pull off this scam, I guess he deserves the money, right ?

[Ocean6]

As of now, he has defaulted.

Has anyone begun contacting his family, friends, associates, and ordering pizzas to raise the heat?

[bitlane]

Has anyone begun contacting his family, friends, associates, and ordering pizzas to raise the heat?

That is an awful suggestion. Why would anyone stoop that low ?