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Author Topic: centralized post of pirate payouts-It is over. Pirate@scammer admits default  (Read 79767 times)
CoinCidental
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August 27, 2012, 10:48:11 AM
 #361

Um no. People using violence to get their coins back from a crook is not self-defense. Their coins were gone the moment they suspended their common sense and were engulfed by their own greed. Pirate forced no one to give him their coins, and he never gave anyone anywhere near a plausible reason as to why his scheme should work as promised. Pirate didn't invent the Ponzi scheme so everyone here should have known better. It's the victims greed that committed the crime.
I disagree completely. Pirate's culpability has no effect on his victims' culpability and vice versa. Each is fully responsible for their own actions and the consequences of them.

And yes, using violence to get stolen property back from a thief is self-defense. In a civilized society, within the scope of operation of its legal and police systems, one give's up one's right to the use of self-defense in non-emergency situations. But where those systems don't apply, one still has it.

If you and I were stranded on a desert island, I would fully have the right to use force to defend my property from you, including taking it back from you if you had stolen it. Defense of one's property is self-defense.


Are we on a desert island?

Pirate probably is ...  Grin
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JoelKatz
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August 27, 2012, 10:53:59 AM
 #362

Are we on a desert island?
I don't think we know that yet. We'll have to wait and see.

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August 27, 2012, 11:09:20 AM
 #363

Um no. People using violence to get their coins back from a crook is not self-defense. Their coins were gone the moment they suspended their common sense and were engulfed by their own greed. Pirate forced no one to give him their coins, and he never gave anyone anywhere near a plausible reason as to why his scheme should work as promised. Pirate didn't invent the Ponzi scheme so everyone here should have known better. It's the victims greed that committed the crime.
I disagree completely. Pirate's culpability has no effect on his victims' culpability and vice versa. Each is fully responsible for their own actions and the consequences of them.

And yes, using violence to get stolen property back from a thief is self-defense. In a civilized society, within the scope of operation of its legal and police systems, one give's up one's right to the use of self-defense in non-emergency situations. But where those systems don't apply, one still has it.

If you and I were stranded on a desert island, I would fully have the right to use force to defend my property from you, including taking it back from you if you had stolen it. Defense of one's property is self-defense.


Are we on a desert island?
+1

more or less retired.
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August 27, 2012, 11:18:23 AM
 #364

We will only know if someone will use violence and they get caught?
We'll know if people attempt to get the authorities involved. Either they'll succeed, and then we're not on a desert island, or they'll fail, and then we are.

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August 27, 2012, 11:22:01 AM
 #365

We will only know if someone will use violence and they get caught?
We'll know if people attempt to get the authorities involved. Either they'll succeed, and then we're not on a desert island, or they'll fail, and then we are.

What are they going to do, complain that a man took their Internet moneys? It would be regarded by the police as the equivalent of stealing someone's NX points or ISK. They'll set the matter aside and we're still screwed.


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August 27, 2012, 11:25:29 AM
 #366

So what is special about Habbo Hotel furniture then that it gets special treatment? Or is that just Urban Myth?

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August 27, 2012, 11:26:31 AM
 #367

We will only know if someone will use violence and they get caught?
We'll know if people attempt to get the authorities involved. Either they'll succeed, and then we're not on a desert island, or they'll fail, and then we are.

What are they going to do, complain that a man took their Internet moneys? It would be regarded by the police as the equivalent of stealing someone's NX points or ISK. They'll set the matter aside and we're still screwed.

People have been charged for stealing  virtual items. I guess as long as people hold this view bitcoin users will be easy pickings.

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August 27, 2012, 11:27:26 AM
 #368

We will only know if someone will use violence and they get caught?
We'll know if people attempt to get the authorities involved. Either they'll succeed, and then we're not on a desert island, or they'll fail, and then we are.

What are they going to do, complain that a man took their Internet moneys? It would be regarded by the police as the equivalent of stealing someone's NX points or ISK. They'll set the matter aside and we're still screwed.
If that happens, then we live on a desert island.

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CoinCidental
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August 27, 2012, 11:30:19 AM
 #369

We will only know if someone will use violence and they get caught?
We'll know if people attempt to get the authorities involved. Either they'll succeed, and then we're not on a desert island, or they'll fail, and then we are.

What are they going to do, complain that a man took their Internet moneys? It would be regarded by the police as the equivalent of stealing someone's NX points or ISK. They'll set the matter aside and we're still screwed.

he didnt even take it ,it was voluntarily given to him
he never said it was risk free either or did he ?

it might not even be a police issue ,more like a civil matter
if you loan someone something and they dont pay back its
probably tough shit

nobody has a contract or witnesses or even a proper identity
and so far ive seen about 3  guys that people think is Pirate

pretty well executed  crime by the looks of things and will probably
get messy if pirate fcuks everyone and splits with the money  



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August 27, 2012, 11:33:57 AM
 #370

I think everyone invested should agree to accept interest payments up to the day he announced closure and no more, I think even then you'd be lucky to get your money back. I think that might give you a chance and at least cut out the excuses after all the way things are going you can't make silk dress out of a pigs ear.

Hey can you loan me 1000 BTC?  I'll give you 7% interest per week and you can withdraw on demand.   Let except now you can't withdraw and I will pay you when I choose.   Oops let cancel the interest.  You will get your BTC back in a year or two so it isn't considered a default.  Unless of course you annoy me, ask to often, or insult me then it is more like 3-5 years.  

When can I expect the 1000 BTC?

If you believe you'll get your bitcoins back in a year or two at 7% a week you're still living in a dream world in the same way you were when you thought entering into such a scheme was a candid business decision. I'm saying everyone who invested should take responsibility for their folly, cut their loses  and try to make the best of a bad situation for a slim chance of getting some money refunded.
bitlane
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August 27, 2012, 11:34:05 AM
 #371

So let us just say we are on a desert island and we use force... What happens if the people we use force against calls the police? Still on the desert island??

Grand Larceny vs. Assault Charge ?...lol

I realize it's unfair to comment due to where you live, but please consider the Western World in your responses.

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August 27, 2012, 11:37:16 AM
 #372

We will only know if someone will use violence and they get caught?
We'll know if people attempt to get the authorities involved. Either they'll succeed, and then we're not on a desert island, or they'll fail, and then we are.

What are they going to do, complain that a man took their Internet moneys? It would be regarded by the police as the equivalent of stealing someone's NX points or ISK. They'll set the matter aside and we're still screwed.

Stealing a million dollars worth of Monopoly Money is still stealing a million dollars. There is no reason why law enforcement should choose to not become involved. They may find it too hard to track down the culprit, but the argument that they won't become involved because Bitcoin isn't "real money" just doesn't hold water.

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August 27, 2012, 11:39:42 AM
 #373

he didnt even take it ,it was voluntarily given to him
There's no difference. If you walk into a candy store and say "I'd like a Hershey's bar" and he hands it to you and you walk out with it without paying, it's still theft. The "it was voluntarily given to me" argument won't fly.

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he never said it was risk free either or did he ?
It wouldn't matter. No risks were disclosed. Certainly it was never disclosed that there was a risk that he would just walk off with everyone's money and that was a risk his lenders had to accept as a legitimate investment risk.

If I hire someone to clean my house and he steals my jewelry, can he argue "I never said there was no risk I would steal. When you hire someone to work in your house, you willingly take the risk they might steal from you." Sorry, that fails the giggle test.

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it might not even be a police issue ,more like a civil matter
if you loan someone something and they dont pay back its
probably tough shit
If someone borrows money with no intent of repaying it or solicits investment with no intent to actually invest it, that's a criminal matter. (Also civil, but definitely criminal.)

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nobody has a contract or witnesses or even a proper identity
and so far ive seen about 3  guys that people think is Pirate
That's true. We'll have to see if anyone, private or government, cares enough to investigate.

Quote
pretty well executed  crime by the looks of things and will probably
get messy if pirate fcuks everyone and splits with the money
I got lots of popcorn.

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August 27, 2012, 11:42:18 AM
 #374

So let us just say we are on a desert island and we use force... What happens if the people we use force against calls the police? Still on the desert island??
That's the risk you have to consider when you have a problem that the legal system refuses to solve. You may have the absolute moral right to use force, but it can still be (and usually is) very foolish to do so.

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August 27, 2012, 11:44:36 AM
 #375

People probably wont see any difference between pirate and any of his public accomplices running passthrough operations if we are as Joel katz says "living on an island".



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August 27, 2012, 11:46:10 AM
 #376

JoelKatz,

 Your eloquent verbosity in defending your offensive position is enlightening.

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August 27, 2012, 11:49:44 AM
 #377

JoelKatz,

 Your eloquent verbosity in defending your offensive position is enlightening.
I'm happy to admit my mistakes, really. Just point them out to me.

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August 27, 2012, 11:54:35 AM
 #378

Last time I checked, someone who fraudulently relieves 'investors' of $5million USD doesn't call the cops when his 'investors' decide to come after him.

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August 27, 2012, 11:57:47 AM
 #379

JoelKatz,

 Your eloquent verbosity in defending your offensive position is enlightening.
I'm happy to admit my mistakes, really. Just point them out to me.


You overunderestimate the true meaning of my praise.

I applaud your comments and the sound logic you use.

I also happen to agree with your assertations.

I think the word "offensive" was misunderstood.

Carry on, guv'ner!

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August 27, 2012, 12:00:26 PM
 #380

JoelKatz,

 Your eloquent verbosity in defending your offensive position is enlightening.
I'm happy to admit my mistakes, really. Just point them out to me.


You overunderestimate the true meaning of my praise.

I applaud your comments and the sound logic you use.

I also happen to agree with your assertations.

I think the word "offensive" was misunderstood.

Carry on, guv'ner!
Damn. I really am happy to admit my mistakes. Now I won't get the pleasure.

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