Re: How to Identify a Ponzi

[smoothie]

One clear sign that pirate was/is operating a ponzi is that he is forced to close his business because of the fact that many investors wanted to get their principal investment back at the same time. Otherwise why does it matter if they want their bitcoins and he has them right? Also there shouldn't be a delay if he has all of their funds. So far he hasn't returned all investor coins....

[1714875483]

1714875483

[1714875483]

1714875483

[1714875483]

1714875483

[1714875483]

1714875483

[1714875483]

1714875483

[Vladimir]

One clear sign that pirate was/is operating a ponzi is that he is forced to close his business because of the fact that many investors wanted to get their principal investment back at the same time. Otherwise why does it matter if they want their bitcoins and he has them right? Also there shouldn't be a delay if he has all of their funds. So far he hasn't returned all investor coins....

Yep, also note that not a single repayment was made/reported today. If this was a genuine op and knowing the allegations surely a fund manager, with intention to pay anything at all soon, would do his damnest to pay today at least some "investors". This has not happened. Instead there is just "leaked" information that Pirate supposedly will be telling someone how he performed miracles. Right on...

[Raoul Duke]

One clear sign that pirate was/is operating a ponzi is that he is forced to close his business because of the fact that many investors wanted to get their principal investment back at the same time. Otherwise why does it matter if they want their bitcoins and he has them right? Also there shouldn't be a delay if he has all of their funds. So far he hasn't returned all investor coins....

Yep, also note that not a single repayment was made/reported today. If this was a genuine op and knowing the allegations surely a fund manager, with intention to pay anything at all soon, would do his damnest to pay today at least some "investors". This has not happened. Instead there is just "leaked" information that Pirate supposedly will be telling someone how he performed miracles. Right on...

Fast repayment? Bitcoinica style? lol

[smoothie]

One clear sign that pirate was/is operating a ponzi is that he is forced to close his business because of the fact that many investors wanted to get their principal investment back at the same time. Otherwise why does it matter if they want their bitcoins and he has them right? Also there shouldn't be a delay if he has all of their funds. So far he hasn't returned all investor coins....

Yep, also note that not a single repayment was made/reported today. If this was a genuine op and knowing the allegations surely a fund manager, with intention to pay anything at all soon, would do his damnest to pay today at least some "investors". This has not happened. Instead there is just "leaked" information that Pirate supposedly will be telling someone how he performed miracles. Right on...

Fast repayment? Bitcoinica style? lol

bitcoinica style ^ 2

[Vladimir]

One clear sign that pirate was/is operating a ponzi is that he is forced to close his business because of the fact that many investors wanted to get their principal investment back at the same time. Otherwise why does it matter if they want their bitcoins and he has them right? Also there shouldn't be a delay if he has all of their funds. So far he hasn't returned all investor coins....

Yep, also note that not a single repayment was made/reported today. If this was a genuine op and knowing the allegations surely a fund manager, with intention to pay anything at all soon, would do his damnest to pay today at least some "investors". This has not happened. Instead there is just "leaked" information that Pirate supposedly will be telling someone how he performed miracles. Right on...

Fast repayment? Bitcoinica style? lol

bitcoinica style ^ 2

infinity squared?
or
infinitely screwed?

[dbox]

I think this forum shouldn't promote this kind of investment schemes. Many people don't know or don't want to believe that what's too good to be true, it's actually not true. Therfore, this Ponzi schemes should be spotted by more experienced members and the users promoting them should not be allowed to scam people using free (and effective) publicity.

[Kluge]

I think this forum shouldn't promote this kind of investment schemes. Many people don't know or don't want to believe that what's too good to be true, it's actually not true. Therfore, this Ponzi schemes should be spotted by more experienced members and the users promoting them should not be allowed to scam people using free (and effective) publicity.

The libertarian in me is shouting you down. The tiny compassionate part agrees with you. The problem arises when deciding what guidelines to use in "identifying" a ponzi. All you can really do is state suspicion, unless there's some type of confession. As already shown in this thread, there are plenty of ponzis fitting the OP's loose definition, and ponzis, also, that run contrary to the loose definition - and a good bit of disagreement over what indicates a ponzi. I mean - what kind of rules should be in place? You must disclose all finances? You must release all government and other third-party identification when the legal definition of Bitcoin is up in the air? You must not return over 50% on investment per year?

[smoothie]

LOL so pirate kicked me from #btcst yet he doesnt have enough time to return all the bitcoins bwahahahahahaha!

[greyhawk]

LOL so pirate kicked me from #btcst yet he doesnt have enough time to return all the bitcoins bwahahahahahaha!

So you're saying he made you walk the plank?

[smoothie]

LOL so pirate kicked me from #btcst yet he doesnt have enough time to return all the bitcoins bwahahahahahaha!

So you're saying he made you walk the plank?

No what I'm saying is obviously I got to him while posting my thoughts in his chatroom lol

[greyhawk]

LOL so pirate kicked me from #btcst yet he doesnt have enough time to return all the bitcoins bwahahahahahaha!

So you're saying he made you walk the plank?

No what I'm saying is obviously I got to him while posting my thoughts in his chatroom lol

You shouldn't aggravate the poor guy. It is not easy instigating a market crash when MtGox mysteriously decided to have their live data stream suddenly completely fail today.

[smoothie]

LOL so pirate kicked me from #btcst yet he doesnt have enough time to return all the bitcoins bwahahahahahaha!

So you're saying he made you walk the plank?

No what I'm saying is obviously I got to him while posting my thoughts in his chatroom lol

You shouldn't aggravate the poor guy. It is not easy instigating a market crash when MtGox mysteriously decided to have their live data stream suddenly completely fail today.

LOL that is quite a funny thought.

[hgmichna]

I think this forum shouldn't promote this kind of investment schemes. Many people don't know or don't want to believe that what's too good to be true, it's actually not true. Therfore, this Ponzi schemes should be spotted by more experienced members and the users promoting them should not be allowed to scam people using free (and effective) publicity.

I agree. However, there was ample information. Several regulars have kept warning the newbies and the math-challenged. Most did whatever they could to explain the Ponzi scheme and warn gullible investors.

I fear that most of this effort is in vain, because people just don't listen. When you dangle a 7% per week sign in front of newbies, some of them will apparently always fall for it. They believe in it because they want to believe it. Greed switches off the brain (if there is any).

One would think that the next time, perhaps a year from now, people would ask Vandroiy, Micon, or one of the other anti-scam evangelists for advice, but I am pretty sure that will not happen. They will fall for it again and again. Look at what happened with the Bernie Madoff Ponzi scheme outside the bitcoin realm. Watch the movie.

Moreover, many scams are still going on with triple-digit interest rates. Since their interest rates are somewhat lower than the ones of the pirate, those schemes can go on for longer and the precise time of their demise is not as easy to predict. It is pretty easy though to detect that they are scams. That has been described here in detail.

No matter how many predictions come true, people will not listen. For example, I predicted the scenario that the pirate rate reduction could trigger withdrawals, ending the Ponzi scheme. Exactly this has happened. I described this scenario clearly more than once (for example, here five days ago). Did that make anyone listen to me? No, probably not. Most people just don't listen and don't learn.

I personally cannot really complain, as these people are shoving bitcoins my way. Whoever can predict the future, wins. I almost feel bad by benefitting indirectly from scams. But, on the other hand, if the people who feed these scams disappeared, the scams would disappear with them, so this may be a good thing after all.

[ErebusBat]

I think this forum shouldn't promote this kind of investment schemes. Many people don't know or don't want to believe that what's too good to be true, it's actually not true. Therfore, this Ponzi schemes should be spotted by more experienced members and the users promoting them should not be allowed to scam people using free (and effective) publicity.

Yes i agree... we should create a cabal to decide what is investment worthy and what isn't.

Also this same group should be responsible for padding all the corners of the forum so people dont hurt themselfs.

[smoothie]

I think this forum shouldn't promote this kind of investment schemes. Many people don't know or don't want to believe that what's too good to be true, it's actually not true. Therfore, this Ponzi schemes should be spotted by more experienced members and the users promoting them should not be allowed to scam people using free (and effective) publicity.

Yes i agree... we should create a cabal to decide what is investment worthy and what isn't.

Also this same group should be responsible for padding all the corners of the forum so people dont hurt themselfs.

I think people should be able to make their own decision in investments, not matter how stupid they are.

[hgmichna]

I think people should be able to make their own decision in investments, not matter how stupid they are.

They always can and some will do it anyway.

But I think some people, particularly newcomers, need a little help. Cooperation and a dose of altruism is the basis and the strength of the human civilization. Needs to be said from time to time.

[Bascule]

I think this forum shouldn't promote this kind of investment schemes. Many people don't know or don't want to believe that what's too good to be true, it's actually not true. Therfore, this Ponzi schemes should be spotted by more experienced members and the users promoting them should not be allowed to scam people using free (and effective) publicity.

Yes i agree... we should create a cabal to decide what is investment worthy and what isn't.

Also this same group should be responsible for padding all the corners of the forum so people dont hurt themselfs.

It's quite easy, shut the long-term offers subforum, which is 100% Ponzi.

[Vladimir]

I think this forum shouldn't promote this kind of investment schemes. Many people don't know or don't want to believe that what's too good to be true, it's actually not true. Therfore, this Ponzi schemes should be spotted by more experienced members and the users promoting them should not be allowed to scam people using free (and effective) publicity.

Yes i agree... we should create a cabal to decide what is investment worthy and what isn't.

Also this same group should be responsible for padding all the corners of the forum so people dont hurt themselfs.

It's quite easy, shut the long-term offers subforum, which is 100% Ponzi.

"long-term offer" is quite an euphemism.  

[dbox]

This kind of huge scams will certainly affect the bitcoin economy and credibility. And why are we browsing these forums? Only to speculate? That's why I think the moderators should ban anything that resembles to a ponzi scheme, to protect both users and bitcoin.

[bitlane]

How does the 'Dead Man Switch' work again, exactly ?

I am confused....and still short a few Bitcoins.