Is SatoshiDice illegal?

[P4man]

Yeah, SD is outright illegal in most countries and he totally knows it.
Plus that's profiting from the weaknesses and addictions of people.
But karma's a bitch.

Frankly, I think governments monopolizing gambling is a terrible idea, in that sense I dont have a problem with SD. If anything its arguably more honest than any legal gambling.

But that doesnt change the fact it is indeed almost certainly illegal and evoorhees trying to IPO it for a fortune without even mentioning this or while pretending its not illegal, is rather troublesome.

[Gabi]

I agree with the OP that this is a very serious concern. From wikipedia:

t. The Act defines a bet or wager to include risking something of value on the outcome of a contest, sports event, "or a game subject to chance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlawful_Internet_Gambling_Enforcement_Act_of_2006

evoorhees, would you claim bitcoins are nothing of value?

Bitcoins are just our little game, we have our software and we play with it with these things we created, bitcoins. How can it be real money? And have any value? That's impossible! 

[skinturtle]

Yeah, SD is outright illegal in most countries and he totally knows it.
Plus that's profiting from the weaknesses and addictions of people.
But karma's a bitch.

Frankly, I think governments monopolizing gambling is a terrible idea, in that sense I dont have a problem with SD. If anything its arguably more honest than any legal gambling.

But that doesnt change the fact it is indeed almost certainly illegal and evoorhees trying to IPO it for a fortune without even mentioning this or while pretending its not illegal, is rather troublesome.

I thought so too, there should be a disclaimer that any investor that wants to buy in the IPO is investing in a possible illegal entity and can be shut down in any time.

[OswaldZeid]

I'm watching the IPO with great interest, but I'm not going anywhere near it personally - seems like a good way to get on the wrong list.

[aph382]

I'm watching the IPO with great interest, but I'm not going anywhere near it personally - seems like a good way to get on the wrong list.

Is it an IPO in any formal capacity (shares issued by an investment bank, and regulated by some gov't body), or just by name and intent?

[mem]

I hope they are not illegal otherwise I'll Ive been wasting my time maintaining my list: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75883.0

[drakahn]

I hope they are not illegal otherwise I'll Ive been wasting my time maintaining my list: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75883.0

Well online gambling is illegal in a few places, so your list is a list of illegal sites in said places

[dunand]

Bitcoins are not money.

Zynga also lets you gamble with internet credits, remember

Thats a very good point. But Zynga credits cannot be exchanged to a currency while Bitcoins can be exchanged to a currency.

It's not possible to exchange bitcoin to a currency on the satoshidice website. Because of this I think SD is similar to Zynga

[OswaldZeid]

Bitcoins are not money.

Zynga also lets you gamble with internet credits, remember

Thats a very good point. But Zynga credits cannot be exchanged to a currency while Bitcoins can be exchanged to a currency.

It's not possible to exchange bitcoin to a currency on the satoshidice website. Because of this I think SD is similar to Zynga

The legal definition of gambling in the United States depends on wagering some item 'of value'. I don't believe that the fact SD doesn't do the exchange matters - for a similar situation, exceptions to the law such as what you're talking about exist elsewhere in the world - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pachinko. The fact that we don't have similar establishments in the United States would seem to indicate to me that something that can readily be exchanged for currency would count as having a value.

[001sonkit]

Bitcoin is nothing currency， but there is market for it.
Likewise, Crap credit in games, eg(NP in neopets,online games, blah blah) is not a currency, but there is not a big market for it. Not much ppl would buy it.

So, if playing a slot machine flash game with NP and potentially win/lose NP is not illegal (even for child, since Neopet is a site for children, and NP is earned upon game playing with limit 3 times/game/day (oh! is it proof of work!?))

Bitcoin is not illegal on Betting (unless new laws apply, specific on Bitcoin or these virtually 'generated' things), even under 18

[drakahn]

Bitcoin is nothing currency， but there is market for it.
Likewise, Crap credit in games, eg(NP in neopets,online games, blah blah) is not a currency, but there is not a big market for it. Not much ppl would buy it.

So, if playing a slot machine flash game with NP and potentially win/lose NP is not illegal (even for child, since Neopet is a site for children, and NP is earned upon game playing with limit 3 times/game/day (oh! is it proof of work!?))

Bitcoin is not illegal on Betting (unless new laws apply, specific on Bitcoin or these virtually 'generated' things), even under 18

you can sell your NP now can you?

[AcADIeN]

last time I've heard, if there is no real currency, gambling site are legal, and bitcoin is not real currency (not backed up by government), but I'm not a lawyer maybe there is a way around that in court.

[drakahn]

last time I've heard, if there is no real currency, gambling site are legal, and bitcoin is not real currency (not backed up by government), but I'm not a lawyer maybe there is a way around that in court.

That's like saying they aren't taxable

if you can swap it for "real currency" then gambling with it is still gambling

[JoelKatz]

last time I've heard, if there is no real currency, gambling site are legal, and bitcoin is not real currency (not backed up by government), but I'm not a lawyer maybe there is a way around that in court.

If you can win a thing of value in a game of chance, it's a lottery.

[bccasino]

Just to let you all know that online gambling is not illegal in the US. Players have nothing to fear from playing at online casinos or poker sites.

The only illegal activity is the act of processing money (currencies, bitcoins were not yet recognize as currencies) to and from online gambling sites. As no third parties are involved in processing bitcoins to online gambling sites nothing is illegal in operating online gambling websites such as SD, at least for the moment!

more here: http://vegasclick.com/online/legal.html

[lbsmining]

Good to know. Thanks for the link

[damienp]

In Japan there something called Pachinko http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pachinko with parlors everywhere. It's basically like slot machines (pokies), but with little ball bearings and maybe a little more skill. It took me a while to work it out, I still don't know the full story, but it's something like this:
Gambling with Pachinko is illegal in Japan.
Pachinko parlors can't pay you directly for your balls but give you tokens instead.
There just happens to be a separate establishment near every Pachinko parlor called a Kiosk (always seems to be written in English) which for some reason happens to have an interest in purchasing little tokens.

Bitcoins are legally a commodity of perceived value similar to those tokens. Any gambling with bitcoins would currently be perfectly legal.

[bccasino]

and for our US poker friends!

Aug 22 (Reuters) - A federal judge for the first time has given legal backing to something card sharks have known for ages: Poker is a game of skill, not chance.

http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/08/22/usa-crime-poker-idINL2E8JM4XR20120822
or
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/22/nyregion/poker-is-more-a-game-of-skill-than-of-chance-a-judge-rules.html?_r=1

[Gabi]

Well Japan is weird, they must censor the pussy in their porn  

[drakahn]

Just to let you all know that online gambling is not illegal in the US. Players have nothing to fear from playing at online casinos or poker sites.

The only illegal activity is the act of processing money (currencies, bitcoins were not yet recognize as currencies) to and from online gambling sites. As no third parties are involved in processing bitcoins to online gambling sites nothing is illegal in operating online gambling websites such as SD, at least for the moment!

more here: http://vegasclick.com/online/legal.html

well there you go, gambling is going to get "bitcoin" arrested :p... good luck with that one