Is SatoshiDice illegal?

[skinturtle]

Hi everyone,

I searched this website and Google trying to find a topic about SatoshiDice's legality because it is basically a gambling website too. And yesterday SatoshiDice is offering an IPO for its users. So I'm just left wondering how can SatoshiDice escape the US laws. US have been cracking down gambling websites already, especially an address with a .com domain this will be too easy for US to shut this down since US owns .com, .net and .org TLDs.

[drakahn]

There is more to the world than just the US

[skinturtle]

Yes, but a .com domain can just be easily taken by the US government.

On Friday, visitors to those sites were met with a message that begins: “This domain name has been seized by the F.B.I.” The government used the same controversial tactic of seizing domain names in actions last year against sites accused of copyright violations. Losing a domain name can be costly for a company that has invested in promoting it as the main route to its site. But the tactic can also be of only temporary effectiveness, because the company can switch to a new Web address that is outside the reach of law enforcement in the United States — one that, for example, does not end in .com.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/16/technology/16poker.html

The owners of the gambling sites were brought to jail. If SatoshiDice wants an IPO, they need to start protecting their assets because if US cracks them down then we'll have nothing..

[notme]

Yes, but a .com domain can just be easily taken by the US government.

On Friday, visitors to those sites were met with a message that begins: “This domain name has been seized by the F.B.I.” The government used the same controversial tactic of seizing domain names in actions last year against sites accused of copyright violations. Losing a domain name can be costly for a company that has invested in promoting it as the main route to its site. But the tactic can also be of only temporary effectiveness, because the company can switch to a new Web address that is outside the reach of law enforcement in the United States — one that, for example, does not end in .com.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/16/technology/16poker.html

The owners of the gambling sites were brought to jail. If SatoshiDice wants an IPO, they need to start protecting their assets because if US cracks them down then we'll have nothing..

Oh no!  They'll have to buy a new domain name!

[evoorhees]

Bitcoins are not money.

Zynga also lets you gamble with internet credits, remember

[skinturtle]

Yes, but a .com domain can just be easily taken by the US government.

On Friday, visitors to those sites were met with a message that begins: “This domain name has been seized by the F.B.I.” The government used the same controversial tactic of seizing domain names in actions last year against sites accused of copyright violations. Losing a domain name can be costly for a company that has invested in promoting it as the main route to its site. But the tactic can also be of only temporary effectiveness, because the company can switch to a new Web address that is outside the reach of law enforcement in the United States — one that, for example, does not end in .com.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/16/technology/16poker.html

The owners of the gambling sites were brought to jail. If SatoshiDice wants an IPO, they need to start protecting their assets because if US cracks them down then we'll have nothing..

Oh no!  They'll have to buy a new domain name!

Yes, you can buy a new domain. But is the owner of the website anonymous enough to escape the law?

Bitcoins are not money.

Zynga also lets you gamble with internet credits, remember

Thats a very good point. But Zynga credits cannot be exchanged to a currency while Bitcoins can be exchanged to a currency.

[notme]

Yes, but a .com domain can just be easily taken by the US government.

On Friday, visitors to those sites were met with a message that begins: “This domain name has been seized by the F.B.I.” The government used the same controversial tactic of seizing domain names in actions last year against sites accused of copyright violations. Losing a domain name can be costly for a company that has invested in promoting it as the main route to its site. But the tactic can also be of only temporary effectiveness, because the company can switch to a new Web address that is outside the reach of law enforcement in the United States — one that, for example, does not end in .com.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/16/technology/16poker.html

The owners of the gambling sites were brought to jail. If SatoshiDice wants an IPO, they need to start protecting their assets because if US cracks them down then we'll have nothing..

Oh no!  They'll have to buy a new domain name!

Yes, you can buy a new domain. But is the owner of the website anonymous enough to escape the law?

Bitcoins are not money.

Zynga also lets you gamble with internet credits, remember

Thats a very good point.

No clue who, and what makes you so sure they even live in the US?

[skinturtle]

Yes, but a .com domain can just be easily taken by the US government.

On Friday, visitors to those sites were met with a message that begins: “This domain name has been seized by the F.B.I.” The government used the same controversial tactic of seizing domain names in actions last year against sites accused of copyright violations. Losing a domain name can be costly for a company that has invested in promoting it as the main route to its site. But the tactic can also be of only temporary effectiveness, because the company can switch to a new Web address that is outside the reach of law enforcement in the United States — one that, for example, does not end in .com.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/16/technology/16poker.html

The owners of the gambling sites were brought to jail. If SatoshiDice wants an IPO, they need to start protecting their assets because if US cracks them down then we'll have nothing..

Oh no!  They'll have to buy a new domain name!

Yes, you can buy a new domain. But is the owner of the website anonymous enough to escape the law?

Bitcoins are not money.

Zynga also lets you gamble with internet credits, remember

Thats a very good point.

No clue who, and what makes you so sure they even live in the US?

I'm not implying that they are living in the US. I just want to point out that if SatoshiDice wants to offer an IPO to the public, they need to secure all their assets. And a .com TLD is very dangerous to have if it is gambling business.

Yes, they can buy a new domain name, however a lot of users will be lost if it switch its domain name. And users will be flocking to other gambling bitcoin sites that are popping every month.

[SSSSwinner]

i don't like that US kills innovations. if you work for US and read this. please stop

[skinturtle]

i don't like that US kills innovations. if you work for US and read this. please stop

No, I don't work for US.

[SSSSwinner]

i don't like that US kills innovations. if you work for US and read this. please stop

No, I don't work for US.

i speak with broad voice, not to you

[Stephen Gornick]

The owners of the gambling sites were brought to jail. If SatoshiDice wants an IPO, they need to start protecting their assets because if US cracks them down then we'll have nothing..

I don't believe the owners of the sites were actually arrested:

 - http://www.pokerblackfriday.com/whos-who/

The payment processors who billed out for the really expensive golf balls, ya -- jail.  The bank officer who allegedly accepted a bribe related to this, ... ya - jail.

Federal law prohibits sports betting, but experts are divided over whether it clearly prohibits online games like poker and blackjack.

 - http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/16/technology/16poker.html

Further information:
 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Scheinberg

[Kazimir]

Who gives a flying fuck what is forbidden in the US.

I host several .com sites in Europe (registered with European registrars, of course) that are probabily forbidden in the US. I couldn't care less about their shitty laws.

There are some very oppressive dictatorial regimes in the world (like North Korea, United States, Iran, etc) and we should stay as far as possible from their ridiculous censorship policies.

[Bitcoin Oz]

Who gives a flying fuck what is forbidden in the US.

I host several .com sites in Europe (registered with European registrars, of course) that are probabily forbidden in the US. I couldn't care less about their shitty laws.

There are some very oppressive dictatorial regimes in the world (like North Korea, United States, Iran, etc) and we should stay as far as possible from their ridiculous censorship policies.

Kim Dotcom.

[Kazimir]

Kim Dotcom.

Good point

Sad but true. Then again, I still gotta see if he actually gets prosecuted. I mean they arrested him all right, made a ridiculous show out of it, but now what?

[skinturtle]

Kim Dotcom.

Good point

Sad but true. Then again, I still gotta see if he actually gets prosecuted. I mean they arrested him all right, made a ridiculous show out of it, but now what?

I don't know what happen to him, but it seems like he is preparing to launch another file sharing service. He's actually seeking for another payment processor. Maybe we can ask him to try Bitcoin.

[P4man]

I agree with the OP that this is a very serious concern. From wikipedia:

t. The Act defines a bet or wager to include risking something of value on the outcome of a contest, sports event, "or a game subject to chance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlawful_Internet_Gambling_Enforcement_Act_of_2006

evoorhees, would you claim bitcoins are nothing of value?

[JoelKatz]

Federal law prohibits sports betting, but experts are divided over whether it clearly prohibits online games like poker and blackjack.

That's because there's a legitimate question whether or not they're games of chance. You can have a chess tournament with cash prices. You can't have a lottery. Satoshi Dice is pure chance.

[Gabi]

Kim Dotcom.

Good point

Sad but true. Then again, I still gotta see if he actually gets prosecuted. I mean they arrested him all right, made a ridiculous show out of it, but now what?

I don't know what happen to him, but it seems like he is preparing to launch another file sharing service. He's actually seeking for another payment processor. Maybe we can ask him to try Bitcoin.

Already done 

[JompinDox]

I agree with the OP that this is a very serious concern. From wikipedia:

t. The Act defines a bet or wager to include risking something of value on the outcome of a contest, sports event, "or a game subject to chance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlawful_Internet_Gambling_Enforcement_Act_of_2006

evoorhees, would you claim bitcoins are nothing of value?

Yeah, SD is outright illegal in most countries and he totally knows it.
Plus that's profiting from the weaknesses and addictions of people.
But karma's a bitch.