Bitcoin -> MasterCard (or any credit card)... who cares?

[joecascio]

There may be a lot of frenetic activity about BitInstant offering a bitcoin credit card, but I have to ask, WHY?
Does it make bitcoins any easier to get?
Why do you want to inject the huge security hole credit card numbers present to bitcoin, which is intrinsically immune to payer identity theft?
The only thing you can do with a Bitcoin address is send money TO it. Tying it to credit card lets anyone who steals the card number able to put charges on the account.

One of the best things about bitcoin is that it's NOT A FUCKING CREDIT CARD! Let's keep it that way!!

[BadBitcoin (James Sutton)]

There may be a lot of frenetic activity about BitInstant offering a bitcoin credit card, but I have to ask, WHY?
Does it make bitcoins any easier to get?
Why do you want to inject the huge security hole credit card numbers present to bitcoin, which is intrinsically immune to payer identity theft?
The only thing you can do with a Bitcoin address is send money TO it. Tying it to credit card lets anyone who steals the card number able to put charges on the account.

One of the best things about bitcoin is that it's NOT A FUCKING CREDIT CARD! Let's keep it that way!!

man, I actually can't wait for one of these cards, I use visas as essentially a debit card, and a bitcoin debit card would be PERFECT, its exactly what I need to be able to buy what I want.

[aghori]

1. BitInstant card is a debit card, big difference, you can only use what is pre-loaded.
2. It looks cool to load bitcoins on to your card real-time = nice way to attract attention to bitcoins.
3. Easy and fast way to cash out bitcoins anywhere anytime.
4. Seriously, how can you not think this is great for bitcoin?

[FreeMoney]

Doooood, it makes bitcoins better to hold. Now that slush money you like to have readily available, it sits in bitcoin.

[BadBitcoin (James Sutton)]

1. BitInstant card is a debit card, big difference, you can only use what is pre-loaded.
2. It looks cool to load bitcoins on to your card real-time = nice way to attract attention to bitcoins.
3. Easy and fast way to cash out bitcoins anywhere anytime.
4. Seriously, how can you not think this is great for bitcoin?

seconded, I can't wait to go buy some shit I need from sport check with bitcoins, also want to see the expressions on the cashiers face when she looks at it 

[acoindr]

One of the best things about bitcoin is that it's NOT A FUCKING CREDIT CARD! Let's keep it that way!!

It does keep it that way. Bitcoins are a CURRENCY.

People can use currency however they see fit. That includes storing/using it safely or exchanging for other currencies.

This new debit card simply gives people another option. A HUGE option IMO. (side note: There is no way 5,000 initial cards will be enough)

Having said that, I understand your concern about security.

My own mother had her bank account linked debit card number compromised and thousands of dollars stolen before she realized it. Luckily the bank reimbursed her (tip: use Credit Unions, people!).

I told her it was a BIG mistake using her bank account linked debit card for things (swipe for groceries, gas, etc. = too many vulnerable spots, even dishonest gas station cashiers) in this digital age.

I told her first to get a NEW non-compromised card and account number. Then I told her to set up a SEPARATE free checking account somewhere, anywhere, one that comes with a debit card. Then put only a few hundred dollars at at time into that account and use THAT for her debit card. IMO everyone should use this technique (especially if non-tech savvy) at it limits your possible losses, and increases charges awareness.

This Bitcoin debit card would be PERFECT to use with my security method, as a fund-as-you-go debit card.

[Bitcoin Oz]

I think its awesome and it will tear down peoples fear of "computer money" because it is in a form they already use. I think Gavin's grandmother would even approve.

I might even get one for my kids and stick their pocket money on it 

[BadBitcoin (James Sutton)]

One of the best things about bitcoin is that it's NOT A FUCKING CREDIT CARD! Let's keep it that way!!

It does keep it that way. Bitcoins are a CURRENCY.

People can use currency however they see fit. That includes storing/using it safely or exchanging for other currencies.

This new debit card simply gives people another option. A HUGE option IMO. (side note: There is no way 5,000 initial cards will be enough)

Having said that, I understand your concern about security.

My own mother had her bank account linked debit card number compromised and thousands of dollars worth of fraudulent activity stolen before she realized it. Luckily the bank reimbursed her (tip: use Credit Unions, people!).

I told her it was a BIG mistake using her bank account linked debit card for things (swipe for groceries, gas, etc. = too many vulnerable spots, even dishonest gas station cashiers) in this digital age.

I told her first to get a NEW non-compromised card and account number. Then I told her to set up a SEPARATE free checking account somewhere, anywhere, one that comes with a debit card. Then put only a few hundred dollars at at time into that account and use THAT for her debit card. IMO everyone should use this technique (especially if non-tech savvy) at it limits your possible losses, and increases charges awareness.

This Bitcoin debit card would be PERFECT to use with my security method, as a fund-as-you-go debit card.

Most of that is a little excessive if your bank likes you enough to trust you at your word, a quick call to the bank claiming your account has been compromised should get any of that funny stuff fixed same day.

[acoindr]

One of the best things about bitcoin is that it's NOT A FUCKING CREDIT CARD! Let's keep it that way!!

It does keep it that way. Bitcoins are a CURRENCY.

People can use currency however they see fit. That includes storing/using it safely or exchanging for other currencies.

This new debit card simply gives people another option. A HUGE option IMO. (side note: There is no way 5,000 initial cards will be enough)

Having said that, I understand your concern about security.

My own mother had her bank account linked debit card number compromised and thousands of dollars worth of fraudulent activity stolen before she realized it. Luckily the bank reimbursed her (tip: use Credit Unions, people!).

I told her it was a BIG mistake using her bank account linked debit card for things (swipe for groceries, gas, etc. = too many vulnerable spots, even dishonest gas station cashiers) in this digital age.

I told her first to get a NEW non-compromised card and account number. Then I told her to set up a SEPARATE free checking account somewhere, anywhere, one that comes with a debit card. Then put only a few hundred dollars at at time into that account and use THAT for her debit card. IMO everyone should use this technique (especially if non-tech savvy) at it limits your possible losses, and increases charges awareness.

This Bitcoin debit card would be PERFECT to use with my security method, as a fund-as-you-go debit card.

Most of that is a little excessive if your bank likes you enough to trust you at your word, a quick call to the bank claiming your account has been compromised should get any of that funny stuff fixed same day.

The fraudulent charges were intermingled with her legitimate charges over a span of 1-2 months (my mom isn't as to-the-penny balance aware as I am...). The total fraud was around 3K if I remember correctly. My mom had to file a police report and highlight the charges she claimed were fraudulent. Her credit union said they had insurance for that kind of thing, but I don't know how often they allow you to use it... I also don't know if regular greedy commercial banks would be as helpful. I've never had to go through that myself.

Remember, this is a DEBIT card, not a fee or interest paying credit card the bank makes money on.

[BadBitcoin (James Sutton)]

One of the best things about bitcoin is that it's NOT A FUCKING CREDIT CARD! Let's keep it that way!!

It does keep it that way. Bitcoins are a CURRENCY.

People can use currency however they see fit. That includes storing/using it safely or exchanging for other currencies.

This new debit card simply gives people another option. A HUGE option IMO. (side note: There is no way 5,000 initial cards will be enough)

Having said that, I understand your concern about security.

My own mother had her bank account linked debit card number compromised and thousands of dollars worth of fraudulent activity stolen before she realized it. Luckily the bank reimbursed her (tip: use Credit Unions, people!).

I told her it was a BIG mistake using her bank account linked debit card for things (swipe for groceries, gas, etc. = too many vulnerable spots, even dishonest gas station cashiers) in this digital age.

I told her first to get a NEW non-compromised card and account number. Then I told her to set up a SEPARATE free checking account somewhere, anywhere, one that comes with a debit card. Then put only a few hundred dollars at at time into that account and use THAT for her debit card. IMO everyone should use this technique (especially if non-tech savvy) at it limits your possible losses, and increases charges awareness.

This Bitcoin debit card would be PERFECT to use with my security method, as a fund-as-you-go debit card.

Most of that is a little excessive if your bank likes you enough to trust you at your word, a quick call to the bank claiming your account has been compromised should get any of that funny stuff fixed same day.

The fraudulent charges were intermingled with her legitimate charges over a span of 1-2 months (my mom isn't as to-the-penny balance aware as I am...). The total fraud was around 3K if I remember correctly. My mom had to file a police report and highlight the charges she claimed were fraudulent. Her credit union said they had insurance for that kind of thing, but I don't know how often they allow you to use it... I also don't know if regular greedy commercial banks would be as helpful. I've never had to go through that myself.

Remember, this is a DEBIT card, not a fee or interest paying credit card the bank makes money on.

ahh, I see your point, that sounds terrible! (makes me want to go check my reports even :S)

[justusranvier]

WHY?

It looks to me like it's how Bitinstant is ultimately going to destroy Western Union.

As long as MasterCard is accepted in the recipient country, and the cards can be used internationaly, it makes it very cheap to transfer purchasing power from people in developed countries to their relatives back home.

[Stephen Gornick]

WHY?

It looks to me like it's how Bitinstant is ultimately going to destroy Western Union.

As long as MasterCard is accepted in the recipient country, and the cards can be used internationaly, it makes it very cheap to transfer purchasing power from people in developed countries to their relatives back home.

Yup, that's one of three main reasons.  With a card that can be loaded using bitcoins, you can add funds to my card.   Or, as competition for remittances, a person can send bitcoins to load funds to the Paycard that he sent to his family.

A second reason this is important.  This becomes an easy to use point-of-sale terminal for a merchant.  BitPay.com offers a very similar service already, but they work with your bank account (e.g., ACH transfer).    This lets the merchant spend the funds wherever Mastercard is accepted and by withdrawing at an ATM.  Faster access to the cash is important to many merchants.  [Use as a point-of-sale terminal assumes that there is some notification to the merchant, such as an SMS text message, each time a payment is received.]

The third reason this is important.  It makes it easier to get by without a bank account.   I can store my wealth in bitcoins, but spend in dollars when that is more convenient or less expensive.

Sure, long term it would be nice to not even do any payment card transactions, and pay for everything using bitcoins but we are a long way from that.  This is like a bridge that helps get from here to there.

[Melbustus]

Yup, that's one of three main reasons.  With a card that can be loaded using bitcoins, you can add funds to my card.   Or, as competition for remittances, a person can send bitcoins to load funds to the Paycard that he sent to his family.

A second reason this is important.  This becomes an easy to use point-of-sale terminal for a merchant.  BitPay.com offers a very similar service already, but they work with your bank account (e.g., ACH transfer).    This lets the merchant spend the funds wherever Mastercard is accepted and by withdrawing at an ATM.  Faster access to the cash is important to many merchants.  [Use as a point-of-sale terminal assumes that there is some notification to the merchant, such as an SMS text message, each time a payment is received.]

The third reason this is important.  It makes it easier to get by without a bank account.   I can store my wealth in bitcoins, but spend in dollars when that is more convenient or less expensive.

Sure, long term it would be nice to not even do any payment card transactions, and pay for everything using bitcoins but we are a long way from that.  This is like a bridge that helps get from here to there.

There's a 1% fee to fund it, right? Is there any exchange rate hit too, or is that included in the 1%?

And then I assume the merchant still pays the usual Mastercard fees?

[Stephen Gornick]

There's a 1% fee to fund it, right? Is there any exchange rate hit too, or is that included in the 1%?

1.49% or something like that was the target.  The details were still being negotiated I believe I had read.

And then I assume the merchant still pays the usual Mastercard fees?

Yup.   The nice thing is that on these the Bitcoin logo is right there on the front.  You'ld think after learning that bitcoin has lower (or nearly no) fees, and the customer probably asking the merchant if they accept Bitcoin -- that it only has to happen a certain number of times before the merchant looks into accepting Bitcoin directly.

[Graet]

I see this as a great step forward, already people are using okpay and stuff. But a Bitcoin based business will have a lot more Bitcoin awareness than the current processors that add Bitcoin as an option to their fiat methods.

I'd actually like 2, one for personal and one for my pool - I could fund the card in Bitcoin and pay pool related bills that are in fiat, rather than sell the coins, get the fiat to my bank account and then transfer to credit card to pay invoices. Anyone else in a similar position will find this a boon I feel
Much Much Much rather this method than the PayPal one

[Vladimir]

There may be a lot of frenetic activity about BitInstant offering a bitcoin credit card, but I have to ask, WHY?
Does it make bitcoins any easier to get?
...

Without reading the rest of the thread...

It makes Bitcoin easier to spend.

Yours, Captain Obvious.

[Melbustus]

There's a 1% fee to fund it, right? Is there any exchange rate hit too, or is that included in the 1%?

1.49% or something like that was the target.  The details were still being negotiated I believe I had read.

And then I assume the merchant still pays the usual Mastercard fees?

Yup.   The nice thing is that on these the Bitcoin logo is right there on the front.  You'ld think after learning that bitcoin has lower (or nearly no) fees, and the customer probably asking the merchant if they accept Bitcoin -- that it only has to happen a certain number of times before the merchant looks into accepting Bitcoin directly.

Thanks for the info... Just to be clear, to your knowledge, does the 1.49% (or whatever it ends up being) cover exchange rate spread too?

Regardless, I agree that this should start driving merchant interest in bitcoin directly, which is why I'll use the card.

[CoinCidental]

i understand the card has a 1000 usd limit
to transfer 1000 on costs 1.5%
a card costs 10 dollars ,do they expire ? will there be a 3 digit ccv code on the back  for online purchaes ?
is there additional fees on taking that $1000 from an atm if you need cash  ?
will visa or AMEX  offer an alternative ?

im excited about it ,i want one providing the charges for using it are not excessive

[Realpra]

I am just wondering when MC/VISA shuts this card down on the grounds of drugs/terrorism/fraud risk/other BS.

I don't see why they would allow BTC to get very big... maybe the 1% fee is enough for them to forget how dangerous BTC is to them - you never know how stupid greedy folks can be.

[CoinCidental]

I am just wondering when MC/VISA shuts this card down on the grounds of drugs/terrorism/fraud risk/other BS.

I don't see why they would allow BTC to get very big... maybe the 1% fee is enough for them to forget how dangerous BTC is to them - you never know how stupid greedy folks can be.

there is scores of other "virtual credit cards " that can be loaded with cash vouchers and they dont seem to get shut down

bitinstant  could argue that all these cards could be used to spend drug /fraud/illegal money just as easily since they can be funded by anonymous moneypak  and ukash vouchers in usa and uk respectively