gambling sub forum query

[mem]

Should users be able to discuss gambling games and bets in the sub forum or does it belong in the Service Discussion ?
For example - warning about a potential scam bet, does that belong in the gambling sub forum - i say yes.

My argument for is that the gamblers look for info about bets etc in the sub gambling forum.

We are seeing posts that attempt to warn users against dangerous bets reported and removed - I see this is an attempt to hide the very real danger from potential gamblers by the people running the bets.

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[John (John K.)]

Should users be able to discuss gambling games and bets in the sub forum or does it belong in the Service Discussion ?
For example - warning about a potential scam bet, does that belong in the gambling sub forum - i say yes.

My argument for is that the gamblers look for info about bets etc in the sub forum.

We are seeing posts that attempt to warn users against dangerous bets reported and removed - I see this is an attempt to hide the very real danger from potential gamblers by the people running the bets.

I'm the one who moved his thread, specifically this one: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=102615.0 to the Service Discussion subforum. At this logic, I'm not too sure about the use of the 'Service Discussion' subforum anymore - as moving discussion threads there is apparently 'hiding the very real danger' about that specific service. I remember going through this debate last week when me and BadBear moved most of Bitcoinica's discussion threads there.

[mem]

Should users be able to discuss gambling games and bets in the sub forum or does it belong in the Service Discussion ?
For example - warning about a potential scam bet, does that belong in the gambling sub forum - i say yes.

My argument for is that the gamblers look for info about bets etc in the sub forum.

We are seeing posts that attempt to warn users against dangerous bets reported and removed - I see this is an attempt to hide the very real danger from potential gamblers by the people running the bets.

I'm the one who moved his thread, specifically this one: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=102615.0 to the Service Discussion subforum. At this logic, I'm not too sure about the use of the 'Service Discussion' subforum anymore - as moving discussion threads there is apparently 'hiding the very real danger' about that specific service. I remember going through this debate last week when me and BadBear moved most of Bitcoinica's discussion threads there.

Hi Jon, thanks for replying.

Im not suggesting that you are aiming to hide any information but id dare say the person that reported my thread is the same person who is vehemently attacking everyone for questioning these dubious bets and I do believe hiding the information is their goal.

[Fluttershy]

I for one appreciate any analysis of the odds. Empower the gamblers to make a more informed decision.

[dust]

I too think the topics should have stayed in the gambling section.

[BadBear]

Im not suggesting that you are aiming to hide any information but id dare say the person that reported my thread is the same person who is vehemently attacking everyone for questioning these dubious bets and I do believe hiding the information is their goal.

Nah, the person who reported them has only posted in any of the Pirate related threads once, the rest are mostly speculation posts.

And service discussion is there to be used, if we don't move threads cause we think they might not be seen, then nobody will ever use it. I'd imagine a lot more people are checking that subforum now that we are being more proactive and moving threads to the proper place.

[John (John K.)]

Im not suggesting that you are aiming to hide any information but id dare say the person that reported my thread is the same person who is vehemently attacking everyone for questioning these dubious bets and I do believe hiding the information is their goal.

Nah, the person who reported them has only posted in any of the Pirate related threads once, the rest are mostly speculation posts.

And service discussion is there to be used, if we don't move threads cause we think they might not be seen, then nobody will ever use it. I'd imagine a lot more people are checking that subforum now that we are being more proactive and moving threads to the proper place.

This. If we start an exception for the gambling subsection, it'll be hard-pressed to not accept another exception for another subsection again.

[mem]

Nah, the person who reported them has only posted in any of the Pirate related threads once, the rest are mostly speculation posts

I dont see how this disqualifies anything, but ok.

I think you will be doing everyone a great disservice burying moving the topics when they specifically relate to concerns of the gambling sub forum - it feels like a forced split:
"Dont want to watch another round of users get horribly burned by insecure bets run by a 17 yo .... THEN FUCK OFF OUT OF HERE."

Id like the gambling sub to remain a gambling sub and not the new home of scam artists/"long term lenders" and ridiculous insecure bets, enabling these snakes is a horrible thing to inflict on the gambling community - especially when you intentionally remove all warning threads from the sub forum.

I think If people saw the benefit of discussing a "bet" (bet not service) in this services sub forum it would already be happening. These are the 1st gambling topics i see in the sub forum and frankly bets are not services. Discussing the risks of a bet is directly related to the topic of the gambling sub forum.

[BadBear]

I dont see how this disqualifies anything, but ok.

It disqualifies this insinuation "id dare say the person that reported my thread is the same person who is vehemently attacking everyone for questioning these dubious bets and I do believe hiding the information is their goal" while at the same time giving you as little information as necessary because I consider reports to be private.

I think you will be doing everyone a great disservice burying moving the topics when they specifically relate to concerns of the gambling sub forum

It doesn't relate to the gambling forum. It relates to one or two specific threads in the gambling forum. Linking to the discussion thread within that thread would be a more relevant to people reading that topic. It isn't relevant to people in general reading the gambling forum.

Gambling and bets go in Gambling.
Discussion about gambling and betting in general go in Gambling.
Discussion of specific thread(s) is only relevant if it relates to a large portion of gambling enough to where it would be interesting to people who visit gambling, such as this one https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75883.0

[John (John K.)]

I dont see how this disqualifies anything, but ok.

It disqualifies this insinuation "id dare say the person that reported my thread is the same person who is vehemently attacking everyone for questioning these dubious bets and I do believe hiding the information is their goal" while at the same time giving you as little information as necessary because I consider reports to be private.

I think you will be doing everyone a great disservice burying moving the topics when they specifically relate to concerns of the gambling sub forum

It doesn't relate to the gambling forum. It relates to one or two specific threads in the gambling forum. Linking to the discussion thread within that thread would be a more relevant to people reading that topic. It isn't relevant to people in general reading the gambling forum.

Gambling and bets go in Gambling.
Discussion about gambling and betting in general go in Gambling.
Discussion of specific thread(s) is only relevant if it relates to a large portion of gambling enough to where it would be interesting to people who visit gambling, such as this one https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75883.0

This +1.

[Maged]

Could one of you guys update my sticky there with this information, then? It currently mentions that scam reports of gambling sites are acceptable threads for that section.

[mem]

In light of MNW's scam - I think this topic sorely needs to be revisited.

Bet and Odds discussion is relevant to the gambling sub forum.
Warnings of potential GAMBLING SCAMS ? definitely.

Many users only visit sub forums specific to their interest - please do not obscure this important information.

[BadBear]

How about a subforum within gambling?

[organofcorti]

How about defining a "gamble" or a "bet" as opposed to an "investment" first? Here's my personal definition, and it could be wrong, but assuming the following are not scams then (for the purposes of this forum):

A gambling game is a service where the expectation for a participant's earning is negative and the expectation for the operator's earning is positive.

An investment is a service where the expectation for a participant's earning is unknown but hoped to be positive,  as is the operator's earning expectation.

A bet is an agreement between two or more parties to exchange currency based on the outcome of a probabilistic event. The earning expectation for one side is negative, and for the other side positive, but unknown prior to the outcome of the bet.

I see a lot of confusion about these terms, but something like the example above should be in a sticky in the gambling child board.

[mem]

How about a subforum within gambling?

I feel that would better option than moving gambling topics out completely.