Western nutjobs destroyed Libya - another of their wrecks. Here are the results

[galdur]

What has the West wrought in Libya?

In the fullness of the Arab Spring, helping rebels oust Muammar Gaddafi in Libya seemed to Western leaders as a good idea. He was a mercurial thorn in the side to the West and an autocrat in his own country.

France and Britain led the air campaign to destroy Gaddafi's military capability. The United States assisted. President Obama justified it on humanitarian grounds, to keep Gaddafi from slaughtering the rebels and civilians where they were located.

Now Libya is a dangerous wreck, and no Western countries want to take responsibility for restoring its civil order.

The migrant shipwreck that may have left as many as 700 dead in an attempt to flee Libya is triggering reflections about European immigration policies. There are difficult questions, about collective border security and the willingness to accept refugees from Northern Africa, given the large numbers and the growing anti-immigration sentiment in much of Europe.

But that shouldn't be the end of the introspection. Whether Libya is better off today than if the West had allowed the incipient civil war to play itself out is unclear. There's not much room for it to be worse off. And it is impossible to contend that Libya is clearly better off.

The tragic shipwreck should also trigger circumspection about interfering in the affairs of other countries when there is not a direct security threat to your own.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/robertrobb/2015/04/20/what-has-west-wrought-in-libya/26081571/

[bryant.coleman]

OK... let me make a quick comparison of pre-invasion era Libya and NATO-controlled Libya:

Libya before invasion:

1. Secular government
2. One of the most prosperous nations in Africa. Attracting migrants from all over Africa in their millions.
3. Home o some of the mega engineering products, such as the Great Man-Made River.
4 Citizens enjoy one of the highest per capita incomes in Africa
5. Probably the best healthcare facilities in the entire African continent.

Libya under NATO

1. ISIS is active, and controls most of the cities.
2. Jobs and livelihoods are vanishing. Thousands of Libyan citizens are fleeing the country, mainly to Europe.
3. Large scale destruction to infrastructure, as a result of civil war.
4. One of the most war ravaged countries in the world.
5. Healthcare facilities almost non-existent.

[Snail2]

Taxpayer's money in work :/. To be honest I wouldn't oppose some plundering raids to such countries if we all can get a fair share in exchange for our crowdfunding efforts (aka taxes) from the loot, but in this case there are no loot, no plundering just destruction and hefty bills. I don't see the point why we went there.

[Lethn]

Taxpayer's money in work :/. To be honest I wouldn't oppose some plundering raids to such countries if we all can get a fair share in exchange for our crowdfunding efforts (aka taxes) from the loot, but in this case there are no loot, no plundering just destruction and hefty bills. I don't see the point why we went there.

That's precisely the point, we're the ones who foot the bill for their ventures, politicians and government contractors benefits from all the gains made in these wars and they get the money from the tax payer so they can afford it, from their point of view, it's a win win, even if it is a balancing at where they send a bit our way through either minor tax cuts or more deficit spending, mostly it's just through deficit spending.

[saddampbuh]

muammar gaddafi was a great man who modernised libya and even managed to civilise the black savages somewhat which the arabs couldnt after 1000 years. you could say this refugee invasion europe is currently suffering is its penalty for murdering him.

[galdur]

Well, certainly this mess is not being viewed as a failure since Hillary Clinton - another of those certifiable nutbags that unfortunately are never taken out of circulation in the interests of public safety - is supposed to be the next president of the United States.

Psychopathic junk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgcd1ghag5Y

[BitMos]

What has the West wrought in Libya?

In the fullness of the Arab Spring, helping rebels oust Muammar Gaddafi in Libya seemed to Western leaders as a good idea. He was a mercurial thorn in the side to the West and an autocrat in his own country.

France and Britain led the air campaign to destroy Gaddafi's military capability. The United States assisted. President Obama justified it on humanitarian grounds, to keep Gaddafi from slaughtering the rebels and civilians where they were located.

Now Libya is a dangerous wreck, and no Western countries want to take responsibility for restoring its civil order.

The migrant shipwreck that may have left as many as 700 dead in an attempt to flee Libya is triggering reflections about European immigration policies. There are difficult questions, about collective border security and the willingness to accept refugees from Northern Africa, given the large numbers and the growing anti-immigration sentiment in much of Europe.

But that shouldn't be the end of the introspection. Whether Libya is better off today than if the West had allowed the incipient civil war to play itself out is unclear. There's not much room for it to be worse off. And it is impossible to contend that Libya is clearly better off.

The tragic shipwreck should also trigger circumspection about interfering in the affairs of other countries when there is not a direct security threat to your own.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/robertrobb/2015/04/20/what-has-west-wrought-in-libya/26081571/

You can't support on one side the freedom of people because they speak russian to self determine and oppose it on the other side, it would lead to the collapse. second this type of what ever you try to achieve here is futile. remember keep your yard and you are clean, don't become arrogant.

OK... let me make a quick comparison of pre-invasion era Libya and NATO-controlled Libya:

Libya before invasion:

1. Secular government
2. One of the most prosperous nations in Africa. Attracting migrants from all over Africa in their millions.
3. Home o some of the mega engineering products, such as the Great Man-Made River.
4 Citizens enjoy one of the highest per capita incomes in Africa
5. Probably the best healthcare facilities in the entire African continent.

Libya under NATO

1. ISIS is active, and controls most of the cities.
2. Jobs and livelihoods are vanishing. Thousands of Libyan citizens are fleeing the country, mainly to Europe.
3. Large scale destruction to infrastructure, as a result of civil war.
4. One of the most war ravaged countries in the world.
5. Healthcare facilities almost non-existent.

again, same can be said on anything by those that can't stand the high ground, is vodka making you roll along the slope of the hills?

Taxpayer's money in work :/. To be honest I wouldn't oppose some plundering raids to such countries if we all can get a fair share in exchange for our crowdfunding efforts (aka taxes) from the loot, but in this case there are no loot, no plundering just destruction and hefty bills. I don't see the point why we went there.

right now, I don't care, it's broken because those people are too weak to do what real Russians did, aka not surrender, and stand firm, even against a man who call himself king of Africa. learn. and don't stand in the fucking path. from your nation no history can be learn worth being repeated but submission.

Taxpayer's money in work :/. To be honest I wouldn't oppose some plundering raids to such countries if we all can get a fair share in exchange for our crowdfunding efforts (aka taxes) from the loot, but in this case there are no loot, no plundering just destruction and hefty bills. I don't see the point why we went there.

That's precisely the point, we're the ones who foot the bill for their ventures, politicians and government contractors benefits from all the gains made in these wars and they get the money from the tax payer so they can afford it, from their point of view, it's a win win, even if it is a balancing at where they send a bit our way through either minor tax cuts or more deficit spending, mostly it's just through deficit spending.

however how tragic it may be, once the core is a threat, the others mother fuckers must understand that rules evolves, and such once the forces focus at home, you have to feed for yourselves, like they do. however if you believe to be able to exploit a blind spot, you are delusional.

muammar gaddafi was a great man who modernised libya and even managed to civilise the black savages somewhat which the arabs couldnt after 1000 years. you could say this refugee invasion europe is currently suffering is its penalty for murdering him.

rapists must die. end. they are infidels.

Well, certainly this mess is not being viewed as a failure since Hillary Clinton - another of those certifiable nutbags that unfortunately are never taken out of circulation in the interests of public safety - is supposed to be the next president of the United States.

Psychopathic junk:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgcd1ghag5Y

the only failure is the rescue of the boys. the rest isn't my problem on this topic.

[bryant.coleman]

muammar gaddafi was a great man who modernised libya and even managed to civilise the black savages somewhat which the arabs couldnt after 1000 years. you could say this refugee invasion europe is currently suffering is its penalty for murdering him.

I wouldn't say that Gaddafi was a great man. But still, he did a lot of good things for the Libyans. And the Europeans should also thank him for limiting the refugee flow through Libya. His vision was a unified and progressive Africa, just like the European Union. The world powers were not in favor of that idea.

[BitMos]

muammar gaddafi was a great man who modernised libya and even managed to civilise the black savages somewhat which the arabs couldnt after 1000 years. you could say this refugee invasion europe is currently suffering is its penalty for murdering him.

I wouldn't say that Gaddafi was a great man. But still, he did a lot of good things for the Libyans. And the Europeans should also thank him for limiting the refugee flow through Libya. His vision was a unified and progressive Africa, just like the European Union. The world powers were not in favor of that idea.

rape = I Don't Care... if you need lyrics... provided foc:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAOHXSpE-v0

okay, thank you.

[galdur]

Libya anarchy fuels boom in migrant smuggling

CAIRO — Libya's chaos has turned it into a lucrative magnet attracting migrants desperate to make the dangerous sea voyage to Europe. With no central authority to stop it, business is booming, with smugglers charging ever more as demand goes up, then using the profits to buy larger boats and heavier weapons to ensure no one dare touch them.
It's a vicious cycle that only translates into more tragedies at sea.
With each rickety boat that sets off from Libya's coast, traffickers rake in hundreds of thousands of dollars. So assured are they of their impunity that they operate openly. Many even use Facebook to advertise their services to migrants desperate to flee war, repression and poverty in the Middle East and Africa.....

http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/libya-anarchy-fuels-boom-in-migrant-smuggling-1.2340718

[countryfree]

OK... let me make a quick comparison of pre-invasion era Libya and NATO-controlled Libya:

Libya before invasion:

1. Secular government
2. One of the most prosperous nations in Africa. Attracting migrants from all over Africa in their millions.
3. Home o some of the mega engineering products, such as the Great Man-Made River.
4 Citizens enjoy one of the highest per capita incomes in Africa
5. Probably the best healthcare facilities in the entire African continent.

Libya under NATO

1. ISIS is active, and controls most of the cities.
2. Jobs and livelihoods are vanishing. Thousands of Libyan citizens are fleeing the country, mainly to Europe.
3. Large scale destruction to infrastructure, as a result of civil war.
4. One of the most war ravaged countries in the world.
5. Healthcare facilities almost non-existent.

Under NATO?
Sorry, but you can't say that. NATO doesn't control anything in Libya. I wish it would, though.

Another thing which changed: before the invasion, a woman could go out in Tripoli wearing a short skirt. I'm not sure this is still possible.

[Nemo1024]

muammar gaddafi was a great man who modernised libya and even managed to civilise the black savages somewhat which the arabs couldnt after 1000 years. you could say this refugee invasion europe is currently suffering is its penalty for murdering him.

I wouldn't say that Gaddafi was a great man. But still, he did a lot of good things for the Libyans. And the Europeans should also thank him for limiting the refugee flow through Libya. His vision was a unified and progressive Africa, just like the European Union. The world powers were not in favor of that idea.

Add to that his vision of a pan-African gold-backed currency, and you can see why the Western powers had to put his head into a freezer.

[Chef Ramsay]

muammar gaddafi was a great man who modernised libya and even managed to civilise the black savages somewhat which the arabs couldnt after 1000 years. you could say this refugee invasion europe is currently suffering is its penalty for murdering him.

I wouldn't say that Gaddafi was a great man. But still, he did a lot of good things for the Libyans. And the Europeans should also thank him for limiting the refugee flow through Libya. His vision was a unified and progressive Africa, just like the European Union. The world powers were not in favor of that idea.

Add to that his vision of a pan-African gold-backed currency, and you can see why the Western powers had to put his head into a freezer.

Yep, mess around with the US dollar and that's when team usa come running after you. When the first inkling of trouble came from abroad, I'm surprised that Gadaffi just didn't pack up and relocate himself to Cuba, North Korea or some other place where he's had alliances w/.

[bryant.coleman]

Under NATO?
Sorry, but you can't say that. NATO doesn't control anything in Libya. I wish it would, though.

Another thing which changed: before the invasion, a woman could go out in Tripoli wearing a short skirt. I'm not sure this is still possible.

NATO toppled the legitimate and popular government headed by Muammar Gaddafi and then installed some of their puppets (with obvious Islamist links) in power. So basically, the Libya is under effective NATO control. It is another fact that the puppets lost most of the major cities to rebel formations, such as the Islamic State of Libya.

[Chef Ramsay]

Under NATO?
Sorry, but you can't say that. NATO doesn't control anything in Libya. I wish it would, though.

Another thing which changed: before the invasion, a woman could go out in Tripoli wearing a short skirt. I'm not sure this is still possible.

NATO toppled the legitimate and popular government headed by Muammar Gaddafi and then installed some of their puppets (with obvious Islamist links) in power. So basically, the Libya is under effective NATO control. It is another fact that the puppets lost most of the major cities to rebel formations, such as the Islamic State of Libya.

Yes indeed, Hillary's War was an epic F-up and now the terrorists are free ranging across Libya or whatever is left of it. By design I presume.

[saddampbuh]

Yep, mess around with the US dollar and that's when team usa come running after you. When the first inkling of trouble came from abroad, I'm surprised that Gadaffi just didn't pack up and relocate himself to Cuba, North Korea or some other place where he's had alliances w/.

he had no intention of running to save his skin as this is not how a true leader behaves. sources close to him said the convoy that got hit by the french bomber just before he died was on its way to make a last stand and go out fighting to the death. ape obama and kike sarkozy aren't worthy to lick gaddafis boots.

[galdur]

Yet another mission accomplished for western psychopaths


Libya's collapse

What has gone wrong?
Very little has gone right for Libya since Oct. 20, 2011, when longtime dictator Col. Moammar Gadhafi was dragged from a drainage pipe outside the city of Sirte, beaten with shoes and sticks, and shot in the head by militiamen. A NATO-led coalition had helped the rebels topple Gadhafi's much-hated regime with a punishing bombing campaign, in the hope that his fall would precipitate a new era of democracy and prosperity in the oil-rich North African nation. After Gadhafi's death, NATO leaders called their involvement "a model intervention," and President Obama declared, "Without putting a single U.S. service member on the ground, we achieved our objectives." But four years later, Libya is economically and politically broken, and may end up splitting in two. It has two governments and two parliaments; extremist Islamist militias are causing mayhem; and about 3,000 people have been killed in fighting since last summer. Libya's lawlessness and unguarded coasts have made it the main conduit for illegal immigration into Europe, leading to tragedies such as this week's boat capsizing that cost 900 people their lives. ...... more

https://theweek.com/articles/551150/libyas-collapse

[Okurkabinladin]

Well, United States found it important to install democracy in Lybia (aswell as Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria, Syria and with minor tweaks - UKRAINE), while ignoring islamic dictatorships in Persian gulf (I look at you Saudis). So I say, american citizens should now take care about millions of victims of democracy, not Italians, Greeks or Germans. Maybe, White House would then think twice before orchestrating another Color revolution.

http://www.targetmap.com/ThumbnailsReports/9600_THUMB_IPAD.jpg

[bryant.coleman]

Well, United States found it important to install democracy in Lybia (aswell as Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria, Syria and with minor tweaks - UKRAINE), while ignoring islamic dictatorships in Persian gulf (I look at you Saudis). So I say, american citizens should now take care about millions of victims of democracy, not Italians, Greeks or Germans. Maybe, White House would then think twice before orchestrating another Color revolution.

At that point of time, there were major differences between the governments in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, UAE.etc and those in Libya, Egypt, Tunisia.etc. The first group were already being ruled by US puppets, although fanatic Islamists. The second group were being ruled by secularists, who were fundamentally opposed to the United States and its puppets.

[galdur]

ISIS In Libya Update: Egypt Reportedly Readying Assault On Islamic State Group Positions

Egypt reportedly is preparing a large-scale ground and air assault along the Libyan border to oust the Islamic State group from eastern Libya. DebkaFile, quoting military and intelligence sources, said naval and marine forces are assembling at Egypt's Mediterranean ports for a possible assault on Derna, the militants' provincial capital.

DebkaFile noted the Islamic State group, also known as ISIS, represents an unacceptable threat to Egypt, and President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi has been warned extremists already have penetrated some Egyptian towns and military units. ISIS fighters are being smuggled through the Sinai Peninsula and Egypt from Syria and Iraq by drug rings, DebkaFile said.

Libya has deteriorated to near-chaos since former strongman Moammar Gadhafi was dragged from a drainage pipe and executed in 2011 following a NATO-led air campaign to oust him. The country has been divided by warring factions -- one led by the legitimate government operating out of Tobruk and the other led by militias operating out of Tripoli. The West has been reluctant to intervene further since terrorists burned the U.S. consulate in Benghazi and killed U.S. Ambassador Christopher Stevens and three others in 2012.

ISIS has seized 11 oil fields and is pumping 200,000 barrels a day to fund its operations while Tobruk is running out of money, the Week reported. ..... more

http://www.ibtimes.com/isis-libya-update-egypt-reportedly-readying-assault-islamic-state-group-positions-1897259