Stay away from ASICSPACE

[CryptoCoin2015]

Jesus that's bad. I assume there is no warranty because it is human error.

EDIT: Did they not form an LLC and obtain Liability Insurance? People need to ask to see that.

No insurance is gonna pay for mishandling This would require them to admit to be in the wrong.

That is what liability insurance is for. Mine keeps my clients protected if I fuck up. I have never been sued so over time my rates go down but all that it takes is one major fuck up of incompetence and they would either drop my coverage or jack my rates exponentially but at least my client would be covered.

Them not having this is sad.

Thank you for clarifiying this. I understand the nature of the insurance policy now. Well, they at least never offered to use it so I guess, they do not have it

[coinits]

Check this out OP

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=902305.msg11188709;topicseen#msg11188709

[CryptoCoin2015]

YOU accused them of dangerous temperatures upwards of 100C based on photos that you didn't even realize was flimsy plastic.  As coinits points out, there may even be a bug at fault that neither you nor asicspace knew about that would have Bitmain share the blame here.

I have friggin S5 here at my place, so again: Do not jump to conclusions if you want to appear as someone applying rational thinking. Because you are not, you are assuming again.

Since you clearly don't know how to evaluate the damage or the responsible party, your accusations are really just going to make you look like an angry asshole instead of a poor mistreated customer.

Again: assumptions. You neither know my background nor anything else, yet you seem to know it all.

For all I know, you have no idea at all about anything.

And besides that, you are wrong: A hoster is responsible for the hosted equipment, hence ASICSPACE should have taken action once they recognized the damage. The truth is, ASICCRAP was at no point in time aware of the damage, as they simply had not taken a single look at the machines but rather said something about network issues, slight heat problems etc.

If this was not about hiding, then it was about incompetence. And what knowledge do we have about systematic S5 failures? Right, none. Bitmain has a faultrate, which is by far below 1% They disclosed this and much more when working on the systematic evaluation of the situation and are doing so right now in Denver.

Does this look like "slight heat problems" to you, if 50% of the boards look like this?

Ah, you do not need to answer, it does not contribute in any way to the solution of the problem.

[CryptoCoin2015]

Check this out OP

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=902305.msg11188709;topicseen#msg11188709

Thanks, I will bring this to the knowledge of Bitmain to have this investigated in our current case. Very helpful, thank you.

[coinits]

Check this out OP

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=902305.msg11188709;topicseen#msg11188709

Thanks, I will bring this to the knowledge of Bitmain to have this investigated in our current case. Very helpful, thank you.

Welcome. I hope that it works out for you. It is hard enough to make a buck in crypto without shit like this happening. Keep us posted.

[JaredR26]

YOU accused them of dangerous temperatures upwards of 100C based on photos that you didn't even realize was flimsy plastic.  As coinits points out, there may even be a bug at fault that neither you nor asicspace knew about that would have Bitmain share the blame here.

I have friggin S5 here at my place, so again: Do not jump to conclusions if you want to appear as someone applying rational thinking. Because you are not, you are assuming again.

Ok.  So why did you make claims that it might have been 100C to deform it?  You can practically deform it with your hand.  By your own admission you must have known this.  Why make such claims?

Since you clearly don't know how to evaluate the damage or the responsible party, your accusations are really just going to make you look like an angry asshole instead of a poor mistreated customer.

Again: assumptions. You neither know my background nor anything else, yet you seem to know it all.

For all I know, you have no idea at all about anything.

I didn't claim to know your background.  You literally said "There must have been beyond 100 degrees C."  I showed that that claim is completely bogus.  People can draw their own conclusions about our respective backgrounds.

And besides that, you are wrong: A hoster is responsible for the hosted equipment, hence ASICSPACE should have taken action once they recognized the damage. The truth is, ASICCRAP was at no point in time aware of the damage, as they simply had not taken a single look at the machines but rather said something about network issues, slight heat problems etc.

I know this to be at least partially untrue, but it is all secondhand information.  However you and I can definitely agree that things weren't handled right, and that this was not how a hoster should treat their customers.

If this was not about hiding, then it was about incompetence. And what knowledge do we have about systematic S5 failures? Right, none. Bitmain has a faultrate, which is by far below 1% They disclosed this and much more when working on the systematic evaluation of the situation and are doing so right now in Denver.

Right, and it will be good to have their assistance; keeping in mind that they also have a very strong impetus to avoid both the liability for the hardware and the reputation impact that it would have if they admitted any fault such as automatic shut-off temperatures not working.  Bitmain are good guys, I know them, but they are also very clever.  If Bitmain can avoid reputation impact by pinning 100% of the blame on another party, they will likely do so even if a failure on their side contributed to 20% of the problem or more.

I also know that they run large quantities of their hardware in "datacenters" in China, often under high temperatures and with a build construction that makes Asicspace look like a tier-II datacenter.  We are not likely to get the operational data(temperatures) from those places nor the failure rates in them because the numbers won't be good.  (The numbers aren't supposed to be good; it is designed to fail and be cheap to replace).

Does this look like "slight heat problems" to you, if 50% of the boards look like this?

50% of what boards?  50% of the pieces of plastic?  I'd say that's rough handling or the result of running in a BTC mine.  50% of the circuit boards have a capacitor blown?  Now this would be some useful data.  Yes, I would agree that if you have 50% of S5 boards with visible capacitors blown like that I'd agree that you either have a major electrical problem(more likely, although I know the electrical is pretty solid there) or a major heat problem(heat affects chips more than capacitors).

Ah, you do not need to answer, it does not contribute in any way to the solution of the problem.

What you mean to say is, it isn't helping your angry arguments.  Lets just try sticking to the facts, shall we?

[CryptoCoin2015]

Ok.  So why did you make claims that it might have been 100C to deform it?  You can practically deform it with your hand.  By your own admission you must have known this.  Why make such claims?

There is a huge difference in a material being easily able to be bent by physical force and material sitting in a shelf being deformed by heat. I will put a 1.200 watt blowdryer on the weekend against one of my S5s sides (gotta pick one) and we will see the outcome. I will measure the heat at impact, ok?

I know this to be at least partially untrue, but it is all secondhand information.  However you and I can definitely agree that things weren't handled right, and that this was not how a hoster should treat their customers.

Yes, and no hoster should have the customer get aid from the police to retrieve his equipment.

Right, and it will be good to have their assistance; keeping in mind that they also have a very strong impetus to avoid both the liability for the hardware and the reputation impact that it would have if they admitted any fault such as automatic shut-off temperatures not working.  Bitmain are good guys, I know them, but they are also very clever.  If Bitmain can avoid reputation impact by pinning 100% of the blame on another party, they will likely do so even if a failure on their side contributed to 20% of the problem or more.

Agreed. I am suspicious of Bitmain as well, but to have such an error quote in such a short time frame under the same conditions, with only me claiming these errors seems to statistically less relevant and only an option to pursue after all other reason have been ruled out.

50% of what boards?  50% of the pieces of plastic?  I'd say that's rough handling or the result of running in a BTC mine.  50% of the circuit boards have a capacitor blown?  Now this would be some useful data.  Yes, I would agree that if you have 50% of S5 boards with visible capacitors blown like that I'd agree that you either have a major electrical problem(more likely, although I know the electrical is pretty solid there) or a major heat problem(heat affects chips more than capacitors).

50% of S5 boards with visible capacitors blown or similar damages.

What you mean to say is, it isn't helping your angry arguments.  Lets just try sticking to the facts, shall we?

Agreed.

[JaredR26]

Ok.  So why did you make claims that it might have been 100C to deform it?  You can practically deform it with your hand.  By your own admission you must have known this.  Why make such claims?

There is a huge difference in a material being easily able to be bent by physical force and material sitting in a shelf being deformed by heat. I will put a 1.200 watt blowdryer on the weekend against one of my S5s sides (gotta pick one) and we will see the outcome. I will measure the heat at impact, ok?

Fair enough, but that doesn't rule out physical deformation.

In addition, having recently done this with a different type of plastic, heat deformation of plastic generally leads to very different results than your pictures show.  Since the deformation itself is caused by the expansion and contraction of different sections of the plastic at different rates, what you end up getting is generally edges aren't straight anymore and/or that the material will bulge, bow out, or sag at certain points.

The pictures you've shown show perfectly straight edges on all of the plastic, with the possible exceptions of the middle one(rear, left side) and the far left rear one, but both of that could be camera angle too.  I don't see any bulges or sagging, nor any deformation of the antminer/bitmain logos.  All of the units have bends near the screwholes, sometimes much sharper than what heat alone will achieve, implying that they were bent either on installation(at bitmain), during transportation on one of the several trips, during setup, or during the removal of the covers.  The largest bend is the far rear right one, but A. the bend is sharper than what most heat damage would cause, and B. both the edges and the lettering on the logo are still straight.

I honestly think the plastic sheets are a red herring completely.

I know this to be at least partially untrue, but it is all secondhand information.  However you and I can definitely agree that things weren't handled right, and that this was not how a hoster should treat their customers.

Yes, and no hoster should have the customer get aid from the police to retrieve his equipment.

In this particular case I agree this could and should have been handled better.

That said, if a customer hasn't paid their bills, they can't retrieve their equipment.  Hosters have big electricity bills and other bills to pay, none of whom give a damn if your customers haven't paid their bills.

And clearly your hardware did run up its portion of an electricity bill, otherwise how could it have damaged capacitors?  There is no temperature in an operational bitcoin mine, no matter how poorly cooled, that can damage a device that isn't powered on(Short of fire, not relevant here).

Right, and it will be good to have their assistance; keeping in mind that they also have a very strong impetus to avoid both the liability for the hardware and the reputation impact that it would have if they admitted any fault such as automatic shut-off temperatures not working.  Bitmain are good guys, I know them, but they are also very clever.  If Bitmain can avoid reputation impact by pinning 100% of the blame on another party, they will likely do so even if a failure on their side contributed to 20% of the problem or more.

Agreed. I am suspicious of Bitmain as well, but to have such an error quote in such a short time frame under the same conditions, with only me claiming these errors seems to statistically less relevant and only an option to pursue after all other reason have been ruled out.

50% of what boards?  50% of the pieces of plastic?  I'd say that's rough handling or the result of running in a BTC mine.  50% of the circuit boards have a capacitor blown?  Now this would be some useful data.  Yes, I would agree that if you have 50% of S5 boards with visible capacitors blown like that I'd agree that you either have a major electrical problem(more likely, although I know the electrical is pretty solid there) or a major heat problem(heat affects chips more than capacitors).

50% of S5 boards with visible capacitors blown or similar damages.

Do you happen to have more pictures you could post and/or send me?  That is actually very very suspicious.  I know of bitcoin mines that had spots of up to 135F(57C, some with GPU, some with bitfury hw).  The bitfuries had few failures, and the GPU farm had mostly PSU failures.  I've personally run AM hardware at 45C stably, and know of other mines that ran (for a time) at upwards of 76C with bitmain hardware and afterwards ran at 49C for a long time, and had a lower failure rate than that.

All that said, I've been in that DC a bunch and know their cooling pretty well.  I'm sure it got hot, but I really have a hard time believing that it got above 57C without a major cooling failure(Which, conspiracy theories aside, doesn't seem to be the case).  And that's where my background is important, as I've designed and built the cooling for 4 or 5 bitcoin mines now.  The record day was 27C at peak, so that would be a 30C temperature rise, which is crazy.

Even if you doubt me or my background, I'd be really careful about making the central point of your investigation/case a > 57C ambient temperature, because they may have/gather other data and if they prove you wrong, your entire case falls apart.

If the failure rate is truly that high, my best guess from what I know is:
A. It was definitely too hot in the mine, though lower than the highs I have seen in other mines(57C)
B. S5's are particularly sensitive to heat damage, moreso than most other hardware brands and even previous generations of antminers.
C. The S5's did not apply any temperature protection, if they have such.

On another thought, what power supplies were used with these S5's?  Link or image?  To me those are more likely to blow capacitors(likely in combination with the heat), if they don't deliver clean voltages.

[CryptoCoin2015]

I honestly think the plastic sheets are a red herring completely.

Nope. The deformation perfectly shows, that the internal heat has been causing this, as the hot air was blown out of the casing and hence causing this type of deformation. The logos are not in an area where any air circulation happens but the sides between the screws are. Your theory for external impact due to move and such surely would have caused such random effects and on logos as well. The type of damage you see here, being consistent on all machines, shows that the hot air was taking its way all from inside to outside, going through the slits between the screws and hence deforming the shielding.

That said, if a customer hasn't paid their bills, they can't retrieve their equipment.  Hosters have big electricity bills and other bills to pay, none of whom give a damn if your customers haven't paid their bills. And clearly your hardware did run up its portion of an electricity bill, ...

If you are implying, i did not pay my bill, you are in the wrong again. I payed them 4661 USD for service and energy upfront for a month.

They managed to get all this damage done in a couple hours, so I guess, not much energy was needed for that. Since then they refuse to either assist in repaying the damage nor paying back the bill they never provided anything for but trouble.

Do you happen to have more pictures you could post and/or send me?  That is actually very very suspicious.  I know of bitcoin mines that had spots of up to 135F(57C, some with GPU, some with bitfury hw).  The bitfuries had few failures, and the GPU farm had mostly PSU failures.  I've personally run AM hardware at 45C stably, and know of other mines that ran (for a time) at upwards of 76C with bitmain hardware and afterwards ran at 49C for a long time, and had a lower failure rate than that.

All that said, I've been in that DC a bunch and know their cooling pretty well.  I'm sure it got hot, but I really have a hard time believing that it got above 57C without a major cooling failure(Which, conspiracy theories aside, doesn't seem to be the case).  And that's where my background is important, as I've designed and built the cooling for 4 or 5 bitcoin mines now.  The record day was 27C at peak, so that would be a 30C temperature rise, which is crazy.

Even if you doubt me or my background, I'd be really careful about making the central point of your investigation/case a > 57C ambient temperature, because they may have/gather other data and if they prove you wrong, your entire case falls apart.

As said. If you want to know more, you need to contact Jonathan. Pictures do not help here any longer for any serious investigation.

Listen to other customers here. I have been contacted by a dozen, whom machines do not answer any longer and who only can see and get a couple of them working again.

All I can tell you is, that ASICSPACE is being run by a bunch of criminals. Maybe you know them, maybe they are not longer the people you once knew.

Today, all that they are is a bunch of crooks with highly criminal intent.

I expect, that I will never see any dime from them. But I will make sure, that they pay the bill.

[JaredR26]

I honestly think the plastic sheets are a red herring completely.

Nope. The deformation perfectly shows, that the internal heat has been causing this, as the hot air was blown out of the casing and hence causing this type of deformation. The logos are not in an area where any air circulation happens but the sides between the screws are. Your theory for external impact due to move and such surely would have caused such random effects and on logos as well. The type of damage you see here, being consistent on all machines, shows that the hot air was taking its way all from inside to outside, going through the slits between the screws and hence deforming the shielding.

The airflow in the S5 is crossways from the fan, internally.  The plastic shielding does not touch or enclose the S5 circuit boards at any point.  Are you certain you aren't confusing an S5 and with an S3?  Because an S3 was metal and fully enclosed.

Here, let me help.
https://www.avito.ru/moskva/oborudovanie_dlya_biznesa/mayner_bitcoin_antminer_s5_1.3th_blok_pitaniya_537197819

Oh shit, temperature deformation!

http://i00.i.aliimg.com/photo/v1/60145139694_1/New_model_ANTMINER_Ant_Miner_S5_1155.jpg

No hot air would have been trying to go "from inside to outside, going through the slits between the screws" when it can just go up or down through large openings.  More likely the thing you are pointing at affecting 5 of the 8(and we likely are only seeing the worst) plastic ones combined picked up conductive heat from the metal frame, which would be much closer to the temperatures of the circuit boards/chips, and definitely hotter than ambient air.

Since the deformation temperature of plastic is less than 49C, and many miners I have seen operate without such failure rates at up to 57C, deformed plastic that was adjacent to the hot metal frame means absolutely nothing of relevance except that the metal itself, but not the ambient air, must have been higher than 41-49C.

That said, if a customer hasn't paid their bills, they can't retrieve their equipment.  Hosters have big electricity bills and other bills to pay, none of whom give a damn if your customers haven't paid their bills. And clearly your hardware did run up its portion of an electricity bill, ...

If you are implying, i did not pay my bill, you are in the wrong again. I payed them 4661 USD for service and energy upfront for a month.

You made a blanket statement; my blanket response wasn't intended to be about you personally.  Regardless of that, Asicspace did get screwed over a few weeks beforehand by a customer who did not pay their bill.

Listen to other customers here. I have been contacted by a dozen, whom machines do not answer any longer and who only can see and get a couple of them working again.

Not saying they don't have other complaints or other issues.  I know they do.  But that doesn't indicate heat damage directly, as there are many ways a miner can fail.  And yes, I'm aware that they have other heat complaints, but so far as I know no other heat-damage complaints.

All I can tell you is, that ASICSPACE is being run by a bunch of criminals. Maybe you know them, maybe they are not longer the people you once knew.

Today, all that they are is a bunch of crooks with highly criminal intent.

As far as I can tell, nothing even you have accused them of is against the law.  This is a civil and customer service matter, so stop acting like they are some kind of gangbangers.

Asicspace isn't perfect, no one is.  I know they do not have any intentions to scam anyone.

I expect, that I will never see any dime from them. But I will make sure, that they pay the bill.

So basically, you aren't interested in the truth of what happened, you are just angry and vindictive and want to hurt Asicspace in either reputation or with vague legal threats?

Who has the worse intent, Asicspace who may have blundered(both cooling, network, and customer service) but may not be 100% to blame, or you who wants to see them burn regardless of the facts?

[CryptoCoin2015]

Asicspace isn't perfect, no one is.  I know they do not have any intentions to scam anyone.

Understood. They finally got someone out here from their crew to calm things down and get their reputation back.

Well, thats one way to earn a Dollar

As far as I can tell, nothing even you have accused them of is against the law.

You have a funny understanding of the law.

Asicspace has not blundered. They have stolen my money, damaged my property and bent the truth in each and every conversation.

Who has the worse intent, Asicspace who may have blundered(both cooling, network, and customer service) but may not be 100% to blame, or you who wants to see them burn regardless of the facts?

Oh, I am interested in the truth, it just so happens you do not have it.

If that is your kind of company to keep, please be welcome to do so.

Well, maybe they just fucked with the wrong guy this time and yes, I want to see them burn for this. And I will.

[JaredR26]

There is a huge difference in a material being easily able to be bent by physical force and material sitting in a shelf being deformed by heat. I will put a 1.200 watt blowdryer on the weekend against one of my S5s sides (gotta pick one) and we will see the outcome. I will measure the heat at impact, ok?

Also note, hair dryers are supposed to flow at up to 140F/71C at least in the U.S., so that raw temperature is higher than the ambient temperatures we are discussing/expecting here.  If you have access to a thermal camera that would really let you see what temperature it happens at.  However, miner chips are often safe to run at up to 80C safely(though not ideal), so for certain boards it is possible that the metal frame, directly connected to solid objects that conduct heat better than air, could be hotter than ~60-70C without indicating a failure situation.  I don't know about the S5, too many things to possibly calculate that.  But when talking about temperatures, it is really important to specify what/where you are measuring to know what it indicates.

In my experience, ambient intake temperatures are safe up to 40C for most miners, and can be workable for some devices up to ~55C.  Ambient exhaust temperatures can safely be at 49C and for some devices are workable up to ~62C.  Chips are happy at 60C, safe to around 80C, and start to get dangerous/damaged somewhere over 95-100C.  I haven't measured circuit boards temps enough to know their failure ranges.

Understood. They finally got someone out here from their crew to calm things down and get their reputation back.

Well, thats one way to earn a Dollar

Asicspace has not blundered. They have stolen my money, damaged my property and bent the truth in each and every conversation.

I make nothing from Asicspace, and honestly lost money on the deal I had with them, spending more money talking to my lawyer about the situation than I ended up being paid.  I am the one that ended my association with them before I was paid what I expected to make.  That doesn't make them criminals, and neither does this.

This is the business world.  You signed a contract* and paid money.  Asicspace failed to deliver as promised, thus defaulting on their side of the contract.  That is not theft, that is default.

They attempted to operate your equipment per the contract and the heat it produced damaged it.  They are not criminally liable for this by any law.  This is a civil and contractual dispute.  I know you aren't in the U.S., but do you really not have this concept of civil court versus criminal court?  Theft versus contractual dispute?

You demanded your equipment be removed long before the contract had ended, and before any investigation that any court would expect could have been completed.  You defaulted on the contract as well.

Both sides are in default.  In my opinion you should get part of your money back, probably most, but I am in no position to judge how much and don't want to be.  That's why we have courts.

* or at least, you should have if they did things right.  If you didn't sign, it was still a verbal/written agreement regardless which carries some weight.

Asicspace has not blundered.

I'm not sure what you call a long network outage followed by high temperatures on a hot day, but I'm pretty sure someone screwed up somewhere.  If they had criminal intent they would have taken everything from everyone and fled.  But they are still there, still mining, and they still have paying customers, some happy, some unhappy.  What part of that doesn't sound like a blunder?

[CryptoCoin2015]

That doesn't make them criminals, and neither does this.
This is the business world.  You signed a contract* and paid money.  Asicspace failed to deliver as promised, thus defaulting on their side of the contract.  That is not theft, that is default.

Sorry, but you clearly have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to legal issues.
You do neither know the content of the contract, the details that have been agreed upon nor the exact chain of events.
Yet, you jump from one assumption to the next assumption, where your clearly lack the required facts upon which your statements should be based in the first place.
That is just not how it works buddy.

They attempted to operate your equipment per the contract and the heat it produced damaged it.  They are not criminally liable for this by any law.  This is a civil and contractual dispute.  I know you aren't in the U.S., but do you really not have this concept of civil court versus criminal court?  Theft versus contractual dispute?

I give you a couple hints here, legal lessons for free: the contract is void, due to their inability to perform in the first place. It has been virtually impossible for them to fulfill.
Your lawyer will explain the rest to you. Or wikipedia. Where ever you get your knowledge from these days.

You demanded your equipment be removed long before the contract had ended, and before any investigation that any court would expect could have been completed.  You defaulted on the contract as well.

Again, you mix up things where you have no idea how the legal system works: I have at no time given up my ownership of anything. This is like you claiming, that a car parked in a parking garage is during that time the property of the parking garage owner. This is pure nonsense.

Both sides are in default.  In my opinion you should get part of your money back, probably most, but I am in no position to judge how much and don't want to be.  That's why we have courts.

Jeez, you are contradicting yourself in two sentences: First, you claim both sides are at fault, then you state, that you are in no position to judge at all. Stick to the latter, please!

Asicspace has not blundered.
I'm not sure what you call a long network outage followed by high temperatures on a hot day, but I'm pretty sure someone screwed up somewhere.  If they had criminal intent they would have taken everything from everyone and fled.  But they are still there, still mining, and they still have paying customers, some happy, some unhappy.  What part of that doesn't sound like a blunder?

Again: You are the customer any criminal wishes for. I have seen plenty of your type during the boiler room days.

The intent, the sole intent of the whole operation is not to deliver services. It is to screw their customers over and over and over again.

Be it that the miners are set to mine into their own pockets. Be it, that they deliver less power than paid for. Be it, that they manage and administrate the property of other parties recklessly with no regards to ownership.

This is all the big picture and the driver behind this is criminal intent.

A blunder is an accident. This "blunder" however is an event that happened due to a gamble: the gamble from their sides, whether they could despite their lack of knowledge and technical capabilities deliver a contract that they had nearly no means for to deliver. And which they knew.

At the moment they accepted that gamble, they were hiding the truth, lying and cheating. They did this with intent and hence they did this with criminal energy. Fraud.

They were desperate to get the deal, desperate enough to not care what would have been best in both interests and reckless, when the time would have been right to take responsibility and get things straight again.

[JaredR26]

They attempted to operate your equipment per the contract and the heat it produced damaged it.  They are not criminally liable for this by any law.  This is a civil and contractual dispute.  I know you aren't in the U.S., but do you really not have this concept of civil court versus criminal court?  Theft versus contractual dispute?

I give you a couple hints here, legal lessons for free: the contract is void, due to their inability to perform in the first place. It has been virtually impossible for them to fulfill.
Your lawyer will explain the rest to you. Or wikipedia. Where ever you get your knowledge from these days.

Judge: "So you are claiming that these individuals are not actual hosters for these servers?"
You: "Yes your honor, as we have shown, these individuals clearly made an agreement with the full knowledge that they were and are incapable of fulfilling it, and -"
Judge: "Wait, hold on.  They were hosting for others before you, right?"
You: "Well yes, but they-"
Judge: "And today, months later, they are still hosting for others, right?"
You: "Well, yes but they-"
Judge: "Case dismissed.  Next plaintiff."

Again, you mix up things where you have no idea how the legal system works: I have at no time given up my ownership of anything. This is like you claiming, that a car parked in a parking garage is during that time the property of the parking garage owner. This is pure nonsense.

I'd love to see what you'd say to a tow company or impound lot after they tow your car.  Plz do and uploads to youtube kthx.

Both sides are in default.  In my opinion you should get part of your money back, probably most, but I am in no position to judge how much and don't want to be.  That's why we have courts.

Jeez, you are contradicting yourself in two sentences: First, you claim both sides are at fault, then you state, that you are in no position to judge at all. Stick to the latter, please!

Next two words after judge: "how much"

Asicspace has not blundered.
I'm not sure what you call a long network outage followed by high temperatures on a hot day, but I'm pretty sure someone screwed up somewhere.  If they had criminal intent they would have taken everything from everyone and fled.  But they are still there, still mining, and they still have paying customers, some happy, some unhappy.  What part of that doesn't sound like a blunder?

Again: You are the customer any criminal wishes for. I have seen plenty of your type during the boiler room days.

The intent, the sole intent of the whole operation is not to deliver services.

And yet every day that others get said services as agreed your criminal accusations look like nonsense.

It is to screw their customers over and over and over again.

Be it that the miners are set to mine into their own pockets. Be it, that they deliver less power than paid for. Be it, that they manage and administrate the property of other parties recklessly with no regards to ownership.

Oh my, you read the future from bent plastic?

This is all the big picture and the driver behind this is criminal intent.

A blunder is an accident. This "blunder" however is an event that happened due to a gamble: the gamble from their sides, whether they could despite their lack of knowledge and technical capabilities deliver a contract that they had nearly no means for to deliver.

https://i.imgur.com/lI37y37.jpg

Now I'm not an esteemed criminal justice major like yourself, sir, but that to me looks like $200,000 worth of means and intent to deliver.  Which would make this a civil/contractual dispute.

And which they knew.

At the moment they accepted that gamble, they were hiding the truth, lying and cheating. They did this with intent and hence they did this with criminal energy. Fraud.

They were desperate to get the deal, desperate enough to not care what would have been best in both interests and reckless, when the time would have been right to take responsibility and get things straight again.

Reckless enough that they didn't have a licensed electrical engineer design the electrical.  Oh wait, they did.  Oh well, reckless enough that they didn't have a licensed HVAC contractor design and build the cooling.

Oh wait.  They did.  What part of this is not a civil/contractual dispute, exactly?

[CryptoCoin2015]

Now I'm not an esteemed criminal justice major like yourself, sir, but that to me looks like $200,000 worth of means and intent to deliver.

This is not ASICSPACEs property. They are managing this, but it is not theirs. They own jack shit and their net value is close to 0.

You know far less than you should, if your claims are true and you know them so well.

Lets agree to disagree and be done with it.

[JaredR26]

Now I'm not an esteemed criminal justice major like yourself, sir, but that to me looks like $200,000 worth of means and intent to deliver.

This is not ASICSPACEs property. They are managing this, but it not theirs. They own jack shit and their net value is close to 0.

You know far less than you should, if your claims are true and you know them so well.

Lets agree to disagree and be done with it.

I never said it was theirs, I only said it was an intent and means to deliver.  Asicspace is contractually bound to that space and it to them, which definitely passes the bar for an intent and means to deliver on contracts.  If you think being pedantic about it matters, I don't think a single big Bitcoin mine operator owns their land, at least none in central WA.  Amazon.com doesn't even own the buildings they are headquartered in, none of the entire lake union campus, and they don't manufacture any of the Amazon products they sell.  Microsoft didn't even have an operating system when they sold one to IBM.  None of that has ANYTHING to do with whether someone intends to or is capable of delivering.

I know far more than you have been told.  Others you esteem highly are not the angels you think they are.  But I'm sure they didn't tell you that part of the story.

** Going back to clarify for someone reading this later, I'm not saying Asicspace did right or good here or that I support them or don't.  All I'm saying is I know they don't have criminal intent, and I know they have not broken any laws.  I'm almost certain that the temperature didn't get hotter (or equal to) other functional mines I've seen(big and small).  I know they have cooling improvements coming.  I also know they have had network outages.  I have no opinion on whether they did or didn't actually damage or contribute to the damage of the hardware. **

[padrino]

Quite the thread...

In case it wasn't already said... Criminal and civil law are not mutually exclusive..

Is it a civil/contract dispute, without a doubt and the limited facts I have seen from the OP, and another customer I have crossed paths with show there may be a case..

Is it criminal, perhaps if a pattern of willful misconduct can be shown but that is a much higher bar to cross and it will be tough to claim without hard evidence, which in itself might be hard to come by..

[pokerdv8]

For any criminal prosecution you need to prove intent, and no matter how incompetent they may have proven to be, you will never ever get any D.A to file criminal charges in this type of dispute. To think otherwise is criminal in and of itself.. IMHO

[CryptoCoin2015]

Is it criminal, perhaps if a pattern of willful misconduct can be shown but that is a much higher bar to cross and it will be tough to claim without hard evidence, which in itself might be hard to come by..

Yep, and this is virtually impossible, at least with the given evidence at hand and the limited availability of other customers willing to sue (they have intends, but fear the costs which would add on to their losses).

[SebastianJu]

This user does this on a lot of threads. Seemingly defending the indefensible actions and doesn't READ THE FUCKING THREAD. Careful he might call you an EXTORTIONIST next if you are looking for fair compensation for the damage.

So since i did not want to remove the NEUTRAL rating for you i now get you going after me?

Its clear why i rated you since i linked the problem with the rating. And you still werent able to explain how someone would have to be refunded for a miner that he rated as perfectly fine, ran it for months until it was worthless, and then got the idea that this miner was so broken that it could have not ever been sold. Then starting a campaign and tries everything to move dogie for a refund.

Whatever, i dont want to go about this in this thread. Maybe you should consider how much worth is in going after others you blame for your own errors. You look like you have enough time to create something constructive instead.