[ANN]ORA::NXT MS Currency::'Shuffling' for NXT::jl777 involved::Anon fungibility

[bluemountain]

is this connected to supernet then? I haven't heard about it in a while

[Kora]

is this connected to supernet then? I haven't heard about it in a while

ORA isn't part of SuperNET, but we are trying to position ourselves as the default 'shuffle' MS currency for NXT ( shuffle tech adds anon functionality to NXT ecosystem), and jl777 has kindly offered to help us. We are planning to distribute some ORA MS coins to SuperNET asset holders via a dividend, so that would mean every SuperNET hodler would be an 'ORA::shuffle' hodler too!

So we're not part of SuperNET as such, but I think it's fair to say we're definitely 'brothers in arms' in a real sense.

[DropsOfJupiter]

is this connected to supernet then? I haven't heard about it in a while

ORA isn't part of SuperNET, but we are trying to position ourselves as the default 'shuffle' MS currency for NXT ( shuffle tech adds anon functionality to NXT ecosystem), and jl777 has kindly offered to help us. We are planning to distribute some ORA MS coins to SuperNET asset holders via a dividend, so that would mean every SuperNET hodler would be an 'ORA::shuffle' hodler too!

So we're not part of SuperNET as such, but I think it's fair to say we're definitely 'brothers in arms' in a real sense.

I think you should just create a summary of the discussion with a link to the forum post instead of posting the entirety of the exchange here.
A concise what, why, who, how and when will work so much better.

[Kora]

is this connected to supernet then? I haven't heard about it in a while

ORA isn't part of SuperNET, but we are trying to position ourselves as the default 'shuffle' MS currency for NXT ( shuffle tech adds anon functionality to NXT ecosystem), and jl777 has kindly offered to help us. We are planning to distribute some ORA MS coins to SuperNET asset holders via a dividend, so that would mean every SuperNET hodler would be an 'ORA::shuffle' hodler too!

So we're not part of SuperNET as such, but I think it's fair to say we're definitely 'brothers in arms' in a real sense.

I think you should just create a summary of the discussion with a link to the forum post instead of posting the entirety of the exchange here.
A concise what, why, who, how and when will work so much better.

Thanks for the feedback! I have often been uncertain on how best to communicate the vision for ORA and what's going on in a way that encourages people to get involved with the project, so I appreciate your suggestion. I do agree that concise summaries would be easier for casual followers of ORA to digest, but at this stage of the project (the calm before the storm, hopefully),  there honestly isn't a lot of discussion going on, so copy/pasting whole posts probably doesn't hurt too much. I've probably done all I can to outline my vision for a leaderless decentralised community based 'starfish' project, so my function as the catylyst for ORA is coming to an end, and I'm really just  trying to keep communication channels oiled in the hope that others start to appreciate the potential with ORA::shuffle and get inspired to get involved..

I think there's enough detail in the roadmap to make ORA 'work', so it's down to actions now, but not really from me at this time, and I guess that's why I'm less inclined to summarise things. Over the last 12 months I think I've explained my thoughts on what ORA *could* be in some detail, so now it's probably time for me to pull back a bit and let others take the lead. It did feel a bit weird to post 100% of my PM exchanges with jl777 for example, but I do honestly want ORA to be leaderless and decentralised, and for that to be a real possibility everyone needs access to all the information. Past events have confirmed to me that other people usually have better ideas for how to proceed than me anyway, and I'm ready to offer support to any capable people who feel inclined to get involved now.

"ORA::shuffle, default NXT anon MS coin" - getting to this point was difficult, and I'm personally very excited at the possible future ahead, but it's really just the jumping off point, and getting here with a viable plan and a viable community to make it happen was always what I saw as my chief roll. What happens next is sort of out of my hands now, as it should be in a leaderless starfish project, and that's exciting,but a little scary too.

[l8orre]

Good to hear!

[tinky winky]

... I'm going to suggest that we set that date - 22nd May 2015 - as our cut-off date for Darkhorse to return, so unless we hear from DH before then I suggest we create the new 'ORA::shuffle' MS currency on that date and proceed with the first task, assuming Pilot & fragora are still willing to act as short-term community treasurers.

...

Has the new 'ORA::shuffle' MS currency been created and distributed yet?

[Mac Red]

... I'm going to suggest that we set that date - 22nd May 2015 - as our cut-off date for Darkhorse to return, so unless we hear from DH before then I suggest we create the new 'ORA::shuffle' MS currency on that date and proceed with the first task, assuming Pilot & fragora are still willing to act as short-term community treasurers.

...

Has the new 'ORA::shuffle' MS currency been created and distributed yet?

It has not. We haven't decided on the settings yet (see post below for more info).
https://nxtforum.org/ora/(ann)oranxt-ms-currency'shuffling'-for-nxtjl777-involvedanon-fungibility/msg181083/#msg181083

[Kora]

Update
Good news everyone, I have created the new 'XORA' MS currency!!

This is 'XORA' MS - http://nxtportal.org/currencies/6933225670038769986



Even better news in many ways, we have been fortunate to attract another volunteer community treasurer to help out with the ORA & MIC redemptions and the next stage of the distribution.

I'm incredibly happy to introduce nxtforum.org member Nxter as a new member of the ORA community treasury team! I'm sure everyone will be as happy as I am to have another community treasurer on-board to help keep ORA viable as a community based project!

A BIG thanks to Nxter

Hi ORERS.


I would like to step out and volunteer myself to help with the ORA treasury and accounting along fragora and pilot (if they and the community agree).


I spend time everyday in this forum and I think it is time to move from being a simple observer to be an active member of the community. The ORA project is the perfect place to do so.


I am an ORA believer, I am an original stakeholder from the web application and I not only keep the whole stake from the original distribution but I also bought some extra ORA in the AE.

I will transfer 100% of the XORA coins to the community treasury account(s) once the treasurers have setup their new treasury accounts & procedures.

It's been a good week for ORA

[Riseman]

So will people who had sent their ORA to DarkhorseNXT receive XORA assets? Or did they just lose them?

[l8orre]

I still have a bunch of the original tokens left which I did not send in before Darkhorse disappeared- where am I supposed to send them?

[Kora]

I still have a bunch of the original tokens left which I did not send in before Darkhorse disappeared- where am I supposed to send them?

The community treasurers should be making an announcement soon!  Nxter said this earlier today:

Hi,

I have setup an account to act as initial ORA treasury: NXT-LR35-7YFJ-C3CJ-H5EBZ  http://nxtportal.org/accounts/18421274091316665379
KORA you may send the XORA to it.

Since account control (multi-signature wallets) is not yet available, the current ORA treasurers (fragora, pilot and me) will share the private key of the treasury account. This will avoid that the funds get locked up forever in the case I should get hit by a bus.

Once the treasury gets the currency XORA from Kora, we will set up a another account to redeem MIC and ORA assets. And of course, the first step in the redemption process will be to honor with XORA currency all of those pleople who already sent ORA and MIC assets to Darkhorse. Please, stay tuned.

I've sent all 1 billion XORA to Nxter's new treasury account, so everything is in place to re-start the redemptions for MIC & ORA!!

[Kora]

The news we've all been waiting for!!

ANNOUNCEMENT

Hi community,

The distribution of the ORA currency has re-started. The currency is already in circulation, 127 users that sent their assets to the old redemption account have been already honored.

To obtain your MS currency send all you MIC and ORA assets to the ORA currency distribution account: NXT-E26D-DMFT-N8XV-37PBS
They will be redeemed by the ORA currency of the monetary system, ticker: XORA http://nxtportal.org/currencies/6933225670038769986

The deadline to redeem your assets will be announced soon.


Br,
Nxter.

Thanks to everyone for being patient, and a BIG thanks to Nxter

[Kora]

Update
Some important decisions regarding ORA are currently under discussion.

When I created the XORA MS currency I set the decimals for the currency to 8 (the same as NXT). This had the unintended consequence of making it impossible to trade XORA for fractional NXT amounts in the currency booth of the NXT NRS software, and thus, artificially sets the floor price inside the NXT exchange booth (outside the NXT NRS software people can trade XORA at any rate).

1 XORA = 1 NXT

Initially this 'mistake' on my part did seem to lead to the obvious conclusion that we would need to re-issue another MS with 4 decimals, which would allow a free floating exchange rate between XORA & NXT in the MS currency booth of the NXT software (Nxter had already distributed some XORA to the MIC & ORA redemptions in DH's old account before the 8 decimal problem was discovered, so we couldn't edit the XORA settings anymore).

BUT, Jack Needles has very eloquently argued that having the artificial 1:1 floor price for XORA WOULD add some very nice features that *might* actually benefit XORA as a 'shuffle' MS!

AND, the 1:1 would mean existing ORA holders experienced a massive windfall gain - 1 XORA = 1 NXT!

SO ... we have to decide what to do ... do we re-issue another MS for ORA with a free floating exchange, or do we keep the existing 'XORA' with the 1:1 exchange rate locked in, and if so, how do we use the 'windfall' to generate MASSIVE community support for ORA?

To learn more, and hopefully have your say on what we should do head over to the NXT forum and 'express yourself'!!!

https://nxtforum.org/ora/(ann)-new-final-ora-and-mic-assets-redemption-process-last-call/

We're very close to achieving official 'interesting' status for ORA, but we need support and feedback to make it happen!

[Kora]

I've started a poll to help us make the decision on whether we keep XORA or re-issue

https://nxtforum.org/ora/ora-community-vote-xora-re-issue/

Please vote!!

[Kora]

I've started a poll to help us make the decision on whether we keep XORA or re-issue

https://nxtforum.org/ora/ora-community-vote-xora-re-issue/

Please vote!!

jl777 has suggested a third option in the poll

3. keep it as is, as there is no peg and using InstantDEX we get effective decimals

I really can't fathom the ramifications- I'll vote later

I know what you mean

If we were to achieve overwhelming support from the NXT community (i.e. over 90% support and LOTS of people voting), then the net effect would be to effectively double the marketcap of the NXT token ecosystem. NXT is worth 1 billion NXT, and XORA is worth 1 billion NXT. That extra billion of wealth *could* solve a lot of funding problems for NXT.

BUT, it's obviously very difficult to get that level of unambiguous community support, and it would be seen as very 'controversial' by many people. We all know the typical criticism of the NXT distribution and the 73 IPO people. But that was BCNext's prerogative as the creator of NXT!

Imagine the response to XORA? A relatively obscure crypto project decides to create a billion XORA MS coins out of thin air to create the 'defacto shuffle' coin for the whole of NXT, and then pegs them to 1 NXT each, making some people very wealthy overnight! Despite being a GREAT idea (good for the shuffle idea, possible ongoing funding source for NXT) it's obviously going to be very difficult to 'sell' to the wider crypto community, especially if we don't even have strong majority support at home amongst average NXT'ers.

The outcome if we keep XORA with the 1:1, but we eventually FAIL to get overwhelming support is ORA would be dead, BUT, NXT itself would be unharmed. That's OK IMO, we would have tried for the best outcome and failed.

The outcome if we keep XORA with the 1:1, and we SUCCEED, and we do get overwhelming support for keeping XORA is ORA becomes a beautiful 'starfish' in the NXT ecosystem, and NXT has great anonymous features through shuffling, AND, NXT has another source of community funding. That's awesome!!

The outcome if we re-issue without the 1:1 limitation is we keep working on ORA, and we still have a shot at making the new ORA MS currency the default shuffle coin over time. That's pretty OK too!

Everything obviously hinges on getting massive community wide support for keeping XORA, and hopefully it'll be really obvious if we achieve that, so we don't keep XORA and fail.

IMO it's very unlikely we will get massive unambuguous support (e.g. Berlin Wall 1989, Arab Spring, Beatlemania etc), but it's still well worth the attempt!!

any pegging would be an illusion due to the following simple mechanism.

Alice has 166,000 XORA, Bob says I will pay $100 for it. Alice agrees and they swap
this cannot be stopped.

so if you "peg" it significantly above market price, them all liquidity of whatever is pegging it will be exhausted (see soros vs England) and then it will trade at its market price (with big spreads and lack of liquidity)

[Kora]

Update
It looks the consensus is to re-issue another ORA MS, which is fine by me!

I've created two new ORA MS currencies (one with 2 decimals, one with 4 decimals) on the NXT testnet and Nxter is running some tests on his distribution scripts. Once everything looks OK, I'll re-issue the new MS on the live NXT, transfer to Nxter, and then we'll start the redemption process.

Thanks for being patient everyone, not long now

[lovewiki]

Update
It looks the consensus is to re-issue another ORA MS, which is fine by me!

I've created two new ORA MS currencies (one with 2 decimals, one with 4 decimals) on the NXT testnet and Nxter is running some tests on his distribution scripts. Once everything looks OK, I'll re-issue the new MS on the live NXT, transfer to Nxter, and then we'll start the redemption process.

Thanks for being patient everyone, not long now

Thank you Kora. I guess we are all patient enough.

It's more important doing it right this time than doing it quick. 

[Mac Red]

The redemption for ORA and MIC assets has started again.

Please make sure to transfer any of these assets you have to the ORA currency distribution account (NXT-E26D-DMFT-N8XV-37PBS) before October 4th 2015.

For more information:
https://nxtforum.org/ora/(ann)-new-final-ora-and-mic-assets-redemption-process-last-call/

[Kora]

Thanks to everyone for their patience!!

ORA MS currency is 'alive', and as fate would have it, 'XOS' / 'ORAshuffle' came into being on July 4th 2015, Independence Day in the USA. This can be a good omen for ORA, as the courage and determination of the American founding fathers to preserve their freedom against tyranny can still inspire us today, and their motivations are still just as relevant in our modern world, probably more so, especially to people working together in a decentralised manner in the crypto movement.

As a non-American myself, I still find these words very inspiring and universal.

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the
political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the
earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle
them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes
which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by
their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit
of Happiness.— That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving
their just powers from the consent of the governed,— That whenever any Form of Government
becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to
institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in
such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence,
indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and
transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to
suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they
are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same
Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty,
to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.— Such has
been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains
them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great
Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the
establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a
candid world.

While the sentiments of the Declaration of Independence can still inspire us today, we must not forget that the system of government it led to did evolve into something which many of us in the crypto movement are concerned about (i.e. massive state power, often controlled by unelected elites), and the price of freedom will always be constant vigilance against the corrupting influence of power itself. As the crypto movement grows and expands in influence around the globe, we need to remember the lessons of history; the good guys can become the bad guys, if they're not careful!

My hope for the future is that the ORA community stays vigilant, and 'power' & 'influence' over decision making is constantly churned and recycled among an ever changing and evolving group of people! If that happens ORA can have a great future, and make a significant contribution to the spread and adoption of NXT.

Good Luck ORA

[schnötzel]

How can i get/swap my ora in case i ve sent it to darkhorse few months ago?