MtGox - mysterious bids/asks just 0.001 BTC lower/higher

[Frizz23]

Almost every time I place a bid/ask that is close to the actual bid/ask there comes a new bid/ask that is 0.001 BTC higher/lower than mine.

How does this happen? Because it's always within seconds, I don't think that's automated trading bots.

Could it be that MtGox does this? Sort of screwing their users over?

Example(1):
Actual ask: 9.090
So I placed my order with 9.080
Within a few seconds there was a new order with 9.079 in the system.

Example(2):
Actual ask: 9.020
So I placed my order with 9.030
Within a few seconds there was a new order with 9.031 in the system.


This 0.001 game happens over and over again.

Did someone notice this as well?

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[Hecate]

As far as i know the mtgox trade interface reacts faster and more reliable than the websocket, so scouting the orderbook with very low amounts can help a bot be a bit faster than others.

Just a theory though. Even if that isnt the case i would still think its a bot, for whatever other reason it does it.

[DeathAndTaxes]

why would you think bots can't respond within seconds?
In more mature markets (NYSE) bots respond within milliseconds to out-bot other bots.

Seconds is like hours to humans.   It would be like saying I placed this order with Amazon and got a confirmation calls within a few hours.  How is that even possible.  I mean I can't believe a human could do that.

[Frizz23]

why would you think bots can't respond within seconds?
In more mature markets (NYSE) bots respond within milliseconds to out-bot other bots.

I am very well away of HFT and Algo-Trading.

Having worked with the MtGox websocket API I am convinced that is impossible for a bot using this API to react that fast. So it must be *something* inside the MtGox system placing those orders. imho.

[Stephen Gornick]

Having worked with the MtGox websocket API I am convinced that is impossible for a bot using this API to react that fast. So it must be *something* inside the MtGox system placing those orders. imho.

Does their socket.io provide this capability, and possibly faster access?

[2112]

Within a few seconds there was a new order...

Remember that you see MtGox through an anti-DDoS proxy run by Prolexic. If your behavior of accessing MtGox resembled in any way a DDoS then your access to MtGox is being throttled.

Prolexic's detection algorithms are secret and neither your nor MtGox can obtain any detailed information about them.

If you have an access to different IP space try accessing MtGox from a different source IP. The throttling that Prolexic uses takes into account the behavior of whole subnets, not just singular IP addresses.

[Wintermute]

I have noticed this as well. In the past you could see the same pattern on other exchanges (tradehill, cryptoxchange, intersango). Have not checked these for a while. It certainly is a trading bot.

[muyuu]

What is mysterious about this?

[Grinder]

Having worked with the MtGox websocket API I am convinced that is impossible for a bot using this API to react that fast. So it must be *something* inside the MtGox system placing those orders. imho.

I'm using scripting myself to check the order book. Some times it's updated in seconds after I add an order, and some times there's a huge lag. When there's no lag it's easy for a bot to undercut in seconds.