Trade with Caution: Use Escrow

[Quickseller]

The fact that bitcoin is pseudonymous (for small to medium amounts for all intensive purposes this means it is anonymous) means that scammers are very much attracted to bitcoin and bitcoin related deals.

If you attempt to buy or sell bitcoin in this section then, more likely then not there will be multiple attempts to scam you. In order to protect yourself against scam attempts, you should always use a trusted third party escrow (a middle man) to protect all parties of a transaction. The cost of escrow is very small, especially considering that there is generally little chance of you recovering any funds you are scammed out of if/when you do get scammed.

Just because you are paying in a way that might be abel to be reversed does not mean that it is safe to send funds first if you cannot (should not) trust the person you are trading with

Who should you trust to escrow your transaction:

• It is generally a good idea to only use someone who is publicly offering escrow services, this will allow you to check an additional reference for potential problems
• Generally speaking, someone who has a Dark Green number under their profile (their trust rating) without adjusting your trust settings
• Someone who, in your best judgment is not going to scam you - it is ultimately up to you to find someone who you can safely say will not run away with your money being held in escrow
• Someone whose PGP/GPG key you previously have prior to contacting them for escrow (it is okay if you import their key immediately prior to requesting their escrow services)
  

Who you should not trust to escrow your transaction:

• Anyone that does not have at least Light Green trust. Anyone who fits this criteria and is offering their escrow services is almost certain to scam you.
• Anyone who you are not confident is going to treat all parties of a transaction fairly
• Anyone who you are not confident is going to not scam you while acting as escrow

Note to mod note: This thread is technically in the wrong section, however due to the large number of recent successful scams in the currency exchange section, and the lack of a similar warning in the Currency Exchange section, I feel that this is necessary to post here. There are similar warnings in the Goods, lending, and auctions sections, but not one here, so I feel that it is appropriate to have one in Currency Exchange. (Either this or a similar thread really should be stickied here). I had bounced the idea of a similar thread off of a moderator via Skype however did not receive any kind of response so I decided to take the initiative myself.

OP note: feel free to make suggestions for improvements, however I prefer to keep this thread as general as possible and to avoid making any specific recommendations in case a particular piece of advice does not sufficiently protect someone.

The below post is additional good advice

[1715276901]

1715276901

[DannyHamilton]

Some useful additional notes...

There are scammers that will create a userID that looks VERY similar to a trusted bitcointalk user (or that will purchase an old account that already has some trust feedback).  They will then contact you pretending to be the trusted user.  Make sure that you are talking to the person you think you are.

Here are some examples of such scammers. If you click on the userID you can see that they are not me and that they have negative feedback:
DanmyHamilton
dannyham¡lton
DannyHarnilton
DannyHamliton
DannyHamiltonn
DannyHamillton
DannyHamlton
DannyHamiltton
DannyHamiliton
DannyHamiliton
Danny Hamillton

Most of the best escrow providers in this forum have provided their public PGP key and will sign communications if you ask them to.  It would be a good idea to have the public keys of all the escrow providers that you might consider using in the future and learn how to verify a PGP signature.

In most cases the "escrow provider" will also be acting as an arbitrator if things don't go exactly as both parties thought they would.  Therefore, you'll want to choose someone that can communicate well, can understand the specific conditions that were agreed to, and that you feel you can trust to make fair decisions and avoid being influenced by sob stories or a manipulative personality.

Additionally, the more specific you can be about the conditions that are being agreed to, the easier it will be to settle any disputes.  It is important to include deadlines in the agreement to prevent a disagreement from dragging on forever.

Reaching agreement ahead of time on many of the following details can reduce the risk of disagreement if everything doesn't go perfectly.

• How many bit coins will be provided to escrow?
• How many bit coins will be released to the bitcoin receiver?
• How much will be paid for the bitcoins?
• Which currency will the bitcoin provider receive as payment? (if payment is being sent with a remittance service such as Western Union)
• What exchange rate will be used to compute the payments?
• What shipping provider will be used if payment is being shipped? (UPS, FedEx, etc)?
• What shipping method will be used if payment is being shipped? (Next Day Air, Priority Express, Priority two-day, First Class postage, etc)?
• Will the package be insured?
• Will a signature be required on delivery?
• Who is paying the costs (shipping fees, customs fees, escrow fees, etc)?
• Will a tracking number be provided for the shipment?
• When is payment expected to be completed?
• Is the bitcoin buyer expected to compensate the bitcoin seller if he does not complete payment on time?
• Is the bitcoin seller expected to compensate the bitcoin buyer if he back out of the transaction before it is completed?
• Is the bitcoin buyer expected to compensate the bitcoin seller if he backs out of the transaction before it is completed?
  

[nor9865]

Excellent advice. Whether you believe the person or not isn't the question. Protect yourself and the item you are trading by using escrow. Most of the escrow services are free, or contain a small fee. This will protect you against someone that's looking to steal your money. Make sure that you also have the terms of the deal outlined before you contact the escrow to speed the process up. If you think that you may be a victim of a escrow and trader working together before you trade, tell them both that you wanna look into their history a little more, nothing against them, but you have a right to protect yourself as a seller or buyer. Reputable members will never object to these terms. Do you homework. Be prepared. And good luck with future trading

[phuongnd08]

There is an excellent auto escrow service on http://remitano.com. Would recommend it to traders. I have used it to convert my BTC to PM flawlessly.

[Quickseller]

There is an excellent auto escrow service on http://remitano.com. Would recommend it to traders. I have used it to convert my BTC to PM flawlessly.

I would not trust this site with any amount of money

I have not been abel to find any kind of positive reputation in regards to the site you are advertising.

[luluchick]

Thank you, I actually bookmarked the thread.

[gongomanny]

This is execellent practical advice. I suppose some people might disregard this thread as self-promotion, but really, using an escrow is beneficial to all parties as they are all protected. It is my general rule that if anyone refuses to use escrow, I won't ttrade with them for any amount, big or small.

Also, I would just like to emphasize you should ONLY go first with people that you fully trust have have taded with before or has very high trust. Anyone that is asking you to send funds first is a red flag for a scam.

[young3dvard]

There is an excellent auto escrow service on http://remitano.com. Would recommend it to traders. I have used it to convert my BTC to PM flawlessly.

I would not trust this site with any amount of money

I have not been abel to find any kind of positive reputation in regards to the site you are advertising.

Me too think that this site is not safe for using escrow .
i have made many deals on this forum with different accounts but i always use escrow for being safe i only got scammed once i lose about 0.15 .

I have used escrow from .

1: Monbux
2: Devthedev
3: bitpop
4: escrow.ms

All of them are good . But monbux replies too late.

[phuongnd08]

There is an excellent auto escrow service on http://remitano.com. Would recommend it to traders. I have used it to convert my BTC to PM flawlessly.

I would not trust this site with any amount of money

I have not been abel to find any kind of positive reputation in regards to the site you are advertising.

Pardon me but I think you are saying such because you are an escrow-er too.
The site is backed by a company (BitGiga from Singapore), it would be far less likely to scam you than any personal escrow-er.
Beside, escrow with too much involvement with human is error prone and usually with long processing time. Also you can't be 24/7 as an auto service. This is why Localbitcoins thrive. Remitano is very alike to Localbitcoins talking about Escrow. It also comes with a proper exchange so you shall get a more competitive rate.

[BitcoinDistributor]

This guy is a businessman on this forum, sticky-ing this thread would create a conflict of interest. If someone else posted this thread I would agree it should be stickey-ed.

[MRKLYE]

This is a good thread.

The point that escrow should always been used when available and you should avoid situations where you can't.
BTC is has a terrible reputation for scammers and for good reason. The non reversible mechanic of bitcoin makes it a target.

Some items are difficult to escrow such as physical items.. but still possible. Use Escrow when you can folks from TRUSTED members.

[shdvb]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1015890.new#new

Plz add me in the escrow list.

[kingofbitcoin]

This is a good thread.

The point that escrow should always been used when available and you should avoid situations where you can't.
BTC is has a terrible reputation for scammers and for good reason. The non reversible mechanic of bitcoin makes it a target.

Some items are difficult to escrow such as physical items.. but still possible. Use Escrow when you can folks from TRUSTED members.

Its inspiring to see HERO MEMBERS with such a large number of negative trust, this makes me double think before I quit in here. Wow shocked for good

[devthedev]

I'm for stickeying this thread as well.

Its inspiring to see HERO MEMBERS with such a large number of negative trust, this makes me double think before I quit in here. Wow shocked for good

Why is that so inspiring to you?

[kingofbitcoin]

I'm for stickeying this thread as well.

Its inspiring to see HERO MEMBERS with such a large number of negative trust, this makes me double think before I quit in here. Wow shocked for good

Why is that so inspiring to you?

Because someone thinks is GOD and leave me negative feedback without ever dealing with me (OK i have try to sold hacking and carding guides in here) but not doing it anymore, still the negative feedback is there without the slightest evidence ,that i have scammed or cheated someone. I guess in this community is the conspirative theory that only few selected people are allowed to sell, to trade or to exchange, thats why its good for me to see someone with a HERO MEMBER title although that big negative feedback number.

[BitcoinDistributor]

Stickeying this thread would prevent the need for these bumps

Go figure you would want it sticky-ed since you're an escrow yourself and this is completely a mix of interests. You only want this sticky-ed so that you get more escrow business.

Seriously shame on your unethical-ness here, its pathetic.

[BitcoinDistributor]

Stickeying this thread would prevent the need for these bumps

I call him out for being unethical and he leaves me with negative rep saying I am some scammer. HOW MATURE IS THIS GUY!?

Seriously what the fuck?

[kingofbitcoin]

Stickeying this thread would prevent the need for these bumps

I call him out for being unethical and he leaves me with negative rep saying I am some scammer. HOW MATURE IS THIS GUY!?

Seriously what the fuck?

You can do just what I did, reward him with the same, leave him negative feedback. He fully deserves it.

[monbux]

Some useful additional notes...

There are scammers that will create a userID that looks VERY similar to a trusted bitcointalk user (or that will purchase an old account that already has some trust feedback).  They will then contact you pretending to be the trusted user.  Make sure that you are talking to the person you think you are.

Here are some examples of such scammers. If you click on the userID you can see that they are not me and that they have negative feedback:
DanmyHamilton
dannyham¡lton
DannyHarnilton
DannyHamliton
DannyHamiltonn
DannyHamillton
DannyHamlton
DannyHamiltton
DannyHamiliton
DannyHamiliton
Danny Hamillton

Most of the best escrow providers in this forum have provided their public PGP key and will sign communications if you ask them to.  It would be a good idea to have the public keys of all the escrow providers that you might consider using in the future and learn how to verify a PGP signature.

In most cases the "escrow provider" will also be acting as an arbitrator if things don't go exactly as both parties thought they would.  Therefore, you'll want to choose someone that can communicate well, can understand the specific conditions that were agreed to, and that you feel you can trust to make fair decisions and avoid being influenced by sob stories or a manipulative personality.

Additionally, the more specific you can be about the conditions that are being agreed to, the easier it will be to settle any disputes.  It is important to include deadlines in the agreement to prevent a disagreement from dragging on forever.

Reaching agreement ahead of time on many of the following details can reduce the risk of disagreement if everything doesn't go perfectly.

• How many bit coins will be provided to escrow?
• How many bit coins will be released to the bitcoin receiver?
• How much will be paid for the bitcoins?
• Which currency will the bitcoin provider receive as payment? (if payment is being sent with a remittance service such as Western Union)
• What exchange rate will be used to compute the payments?
• What shipping provider will be used if payment is being shipped? (UPS, FedEx, etc)?
• What shipping method will be used if payment is being shipped? (Next Day Air, Priority Express, Priority two-day, First Class postage, etc)?
• Will the package be insured?
• Will a signature be required on delivery?
• Who is paying the costs (shipping fees, customs fees, escrow fees, etc)?
• Will a tracking number be provided for the shipment?
• When is payment expected to be completed?
• Is the bitcoin buyer expected to compensate the bitcoin seller if he does not complete payment on time?
• Is the bitcoin seller expected to compensate the bitcoin buyer if he back out of the transaction before it is completed?
• Is the bitcoin buyer expected to compensate the bitcoin seller if he backs out of the transaction before it is completed?
  

Thank you for the list danny.  I will be sure to provide it to my clients using my escrow services and request that they answer the questions just in cade.  I'd suggest other escrows do the same!

[ruller]

Good post

Keep it up

[xmaxbit]

There is an excellent auto escrow service on http://remitano.com. Would recommend it to traders. I have used it to convert my BTC to PM flawlessly.

Your website doesnt seem to be there . I hope your website will be back soon . Till then you can search in google , there are various good website .

TIPS :  1. Always check whether a site domain is new or old .
          2. Before having bulky transactions , please check whether the site is still paying or not by transacting minimum amount possible. Hope it helps.

[noel57]

There is an excellent auto escrow service on http://remitano.com. Would recommend it to traders. I have used it to convert my BTC to PM flawlessly.

How on earth you think your website will be preferred, we are trying to win the war over scammers all around here yet you are bringing this fraudulent website.

[Panzzer]

Strongcoin.com has a nice escrow service.

[BitcoinDistributor]

Please don;t use escrow with Quickseller. If he even has a hint of you being a scammer in the past he cannot escrow a transaction in an unbias way. Please use tomatocage instead who has remained impartial despite the power he has rec'd over the past year. Tomatocage is a great guy.

Did an escrow once with him where there was an issue and unlike Quickseller would have done, he heard both sides and realized I was telling the truth despite my red trust.

[oxiyusuf]

Please don;t use escrow with Quickseller. If he even has a hint of you being a scammer in the past he cannot escrow a transaction in an unbias way. Please use tomatocage instead who has remained impartial despite the power he has rec'd over the past year. Tomatocage is a great guy.

Did an escrow once with him where there was an issue and unlike Quickseller would have done, he heard both sides and realized I was telling the truth despite my red trust.

if indeed what you say is true, can you show the proof, maybe SS or quote?

[Quickseller]

Please don;t use escrow with Quickseller. If he even has a hint of you being a scammer in the past he cannot escrow a transaction in an unbias way. Please use tomatocage instead who has remained impartial despite the power he has rec'd over the past year. Tomatocage is a great guy.

Did an escrow once with him where there was an issue and unlike Quickseller would have done, he heard both sides and realized I was telling the truth despite my red trust.

This is a prime example as to why it is important to keep careful documentation of the trade even when dealing with escrow. If you do not keep careful records, then you will be at risk of getting scammed, even with escrow.

[pooya87]

good information, thanks

since you are talking about escrow service i think it would be great if you added the list of escrows that are active right now, or link to a topic that discusses them.
i have one in my bookmarks Here or any better one if you know any.

[Quickseller]

good information, thanks

since you are talking about escrow service i think it would be great if you added the list of escrows that are active right now, or link to a topic that discusses them.
i have one in my bookmarks Here or any better one if you know any.

I don't want to be seen as endorsing any particular service in the event that one of them ends up pulling a long con and scamming.

I have general guidelines as to how to choose an appropriate escrow service in the OP so people should be able to decide for themselves who to use. I am sure there are a good number of people who would be willing to help with escrow even if they don't officially offer escrow services.

[MarkMJ]

Hello Quickseller

Do you make escrow only via money?
I have a deal (need to pay 410 perfectmoney for an script
Waiting reply about this and how is work.

[Quickseller]

Hello Quickseller

Do you make escrow only via money?
I have a deal (need to pay 410 perfectmoney for an script
Waiting reply about this and how is work.

I am actually not offering my escrow services on this thread, I am simply advising others to use safe trading practices when dealing in this sub as there are a large number of scams and scam attempts in the currency exchange section.

Unfortunately, I am not able to hold any kind of fiat as an escrow agent, as doing so would open up a large can of worms. You can check with other reputable escrow services, however I doubt that many/any of them would be willing to hold something like Perfect Money on your behalf

[Muhammed Zakir]

Humans are behind LBC and I think if there is any dispute, LBC support solves it. IMHO it is still better to use an escrow from this forum. An automated escrow system is always riskier than a human.

[ThEmporium]

I got to know from this thread how skeptical to deal with Escrow, you can enlighten me regards to this sentences:

Bitcoin Forum > Economy > Marketplace > Service Discussion (Moderators: Cyrus, hilariousandco) > Overview of Bitcointalk Signature-Ad Campaigns [Last update: 25-Jun-2015]

"If a campaign has Yes/No as escrow status, it means that the person holding the funds also pays the participants. This is a conflict of interest, but should be a big problem if the person doing escrow is trusted."

Link Reference: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=615953.0

[morocco.man]

Good news, from now you are also protected if you buy a virtual item.
I Can't find about this news in english , got an email from french version of paypal

https://www.paypal.com/en/webapps/mpp/merchant-intangibles-update

[Quickseller]

Good news, from now you are also protected if you buy a virtual item.
I Can't find about this news in english , got an email from french version of paypal

https://www.paypal.com/en/webapps/mpp/merchant-intangibles-update

Yea, you should defiantly not use PayPal to trade anything Bitcoin related. Period.

[nutildah]

Hello Quickseller

Do you make escrow only via money?
I have a deal (need to pay 410 perfectmoney for an script
Waiting reply about this and how is work.

I am actually not offering my escrow services on this thread, I am simply advising others to use safe trading practices when dealing in this sub as there are a large number of scams and scam attempts in the currency exchange section.

Yes, you would know because you sell them accounts to scam others with.

If this post gets deleted I'll know you're a moderator.

To everybody else, there are a lot of free escrow services out there. Just consider that before you pay money for one.

[dblink]

Once upon a time, escrow accounts were optional for almost all borrowers. These days, lenders require escrow accounts on all loans with less than 20 percent down. Without an escrow account, the borrower must exercise disciplined savings practices, or face the consequences when the big tax bill comes due. If you do not have an escrow account, but you want one, most lenders are happy to put one in place for you. However, once you have an escrow account and decide you no longer want it, it can be tough to get rid of it.

[nizamcc]

Nice information, would still like to hear more from you on this.
It would be great if you update your OP with a list of escrows that you find the most trustworthy ones.

[Quickseller]

Nice information, would still like to hear more from you on this.
It would be great if you update your OP with a list of escrows that you find the most trustworthy ones.

As I have mentioned previously, I am not comfortable endorsing any particular escrow. It is up to individual users to decide if it is prudent to trust a specific person or not. It is inevitable that someone that I trust will eventually run away with money they are entrusted with, and I would not want to bear that moral responsibility.

One example of this is that I have used madaik in the past as escrow, and as of ~3 months ago, I would have trusted with with large amounts of my money. Up until ~3 months ago, he probably would be on such a list that you are describing, however he somewhat recently ran away with over $5,000 worth of bitcoin that he was entrusted with (at least, probably more)

[Muhammed Zakir]

Nice information, would still like to hear more from you on this.
It would be great if you update your OP with a list of escrows that you find the most trustworthy ones.

As I have mentioned previously, I am not comfortable endorsing any particular escrow. It is up to individual users to decide if it is prudent to trust a specific person or not. It is inevitable that someone that I trust will eventually run away with money they are entrusted with, and I would not want to bear that moral responsibility.

One example of this is that I have used madaik in the past as escrow, and as of ~3 months ago, I would have trusted with with large amounts of my money. Up until ~3 months ago, he probably would be on such a list that you are describing, however he somewhat recently ran away with over $5,000 worth of bitcoin that he was entrusted with (at least, probably more)

Or maybe you can link to Marco's 'escrow services' list' thread? When it becomes out-of-date, remove it.

[Quickseller]

Nice information, would still like to hear more from you on this.
It would be great if you update your OP with a list of escrows that you find the most trustworthy ones.

As I have mentioned previously, I am not comfortable endorsing any particular escrow. It is up to individual users to decide if it is prudent to trust a specific person or not. It is inevitable that someone that I trust will eventually run away with money they are entrusted with, and I would not want to bear that moral responsibility.

One example of this is that I have used madaik in the past as escrow, and as of ~3 months ago, I would have trusted with with large amounts of my money. Up until ~3 months ago, he probably would be on such a list that you are describing, however he somewhat recently ran away with over $5,000 worth of bitcoin that he was entrusted with (at least, probably more)

Or maybe you can link to Marco's 'escrow services' list' thread? When it becomes out-of-date, remove it.

That thread is already outdated. The last time I checked, it listed madaik as being an escrow. It took him a long time to remove madaik. I don't want to monitor that thread close enough to be able to remove my reference to the thread quickly if it starts to contain bad information.

I want people to do their own due diligence

[subSTRATA]

i feel that this needs to be stickied considering the recent scams; people still decide not to use escrow even when dealing with money, even if its not a newbie, escrow should be used in most cases.

[420popping]

i feel that this needs to be stickied considering the recent scams; people still decide not to use escrow even when dealing with money, even if its not a newbie, escrow should be used in most cases.

I 100% agree, when I first joined I had no idea what an escrow was and I got scammed in the process. I figured this section would have a sticky of a middleman thread, but it did not, and I paid the price for it.

[sylpalma]

Me too 

[nutildah]

There's plenty of free escrow services that are easy to find if you search around a little bit. Don't bother paying money for one.

[CheapSerials]

Up this

[Quickseller]

bump

[BitliCoin]

Almost every one in this topic mentioned how important using escrow is, but other than LBC, no other sites were suggested. One link that was considered by some guys here to be scam, is empty at the moment. Why don't pro users/traders admins provide a list of escrow sites ? Reading this topic I'm still not sure if bitcointalk has an escrow service. If so how do we start it , what are the rules ?

[Quickseller]

Almost every one in this topic mentioned how important using escrow is, but other than LBC, no other sites were suggested. One link that was considered by some guys here to be scam, is empty at the moment. Why don't pro users/traders admins provide a list of escrow sites ? Reading this topic I'm still not sure if bitcointalk has an escrow service. If so how do we start it , what are the rules ?

There aren't many escrow sites, and for Bitcoin there's almost none. Localbitcoins is probably the best one, but even LBC is extremely sketchy.

If someone is wanting you to use their escrow website then chances are they are trying to scam you. The person you are trading with would be associated with the site/would control the site, and would control the private keys of the address that the btc is sent to for escrow.

Bitcointalk has some decent human escrows apparently, but I wouldn't use them because as far as I know the escrows here are completely anonymous. If someone is gonna escrow for me I'd want to know who they actually were.

Oh the irony of this statement 

I don't think many people use escrow.

I think you are wrong.