Advice needed! Buying, trading, and selling on exchanges

[rokkyroad]

as the price returns to normal.

To elaborate further: as the price drops forever till shitcoin is delisted at exchanges everywhere and you are now the proud bagholder of worthless coins.

Speaking from experience ... dammit.

[CoinFriend]

I'm not saying don't trade, I'm saying don't trade widgets if you don't know what a widget is or how it works or why someone would want to buy or sell a widget. If you don't have a good idea where the price is going to go, then you are just guessing and you are going to lose money.

Arbitrage does not work as well as most people think.

Arbitrage works in theory, but not so well in practice.

Do you have a reason why you say that? Experience?
What or why is it not working exactly in practice? What must be different that it works in practice (according to your opinion)?
Which kind of arbitrage we talking about?
i totally disagree! And my balance on the exchange show me the result! i trade mostly (at over 90 %) arbitrage!
because it is nearly without risk and nearly independently in which direction the price moves!
but i needed a long time to find the perfect way of practicing it... to find a strategy !


and i do speculation if i trade with the moving prices! it is a different kind of trading!
speculation needs moving in prices! that's why day trading is profitable (but if you know what you do only).
and for speculation i must know and understated the currency, as well the things behind it.
further i must read the chart. each candle i must understand!
then i can get big profits.
by the way, if you can read a chart and if you do it regularly, you will see it before if someone plans a pump or dump. and if you are clever you see can assume when the pump/dump is over. it is all learning and understanding, as well knowing.

And please don't put two things in the same pot...

[notlist3d]

I'm not saying don't trade, I'm saying don't trade widgets if you don't know what a widget is or how it works or why someone would want to buy or sell a widget. If you don't have a good idea where the price is going to go, then you are just guessing and you are going to lose money.

Arbitrage does not work as well as most people think.

Arbitrage works in theory, but not so well in practice.

Do you have a reason why you say that? Experience?
What or why is it not working exactly in practice? What must be different that it works in practice (according to your opinion)?
Which kind of arbitrage we talking about?
i totally disagree! And my balance on the exchange show me the result! i trade mostly (at over 90 %) arbitrage!
because it is nearly without risk and nearly independently in which direction the price moves!
but i needed a long time to find the perfect way of practicing it... to find a strategy !


and i do speculation if i trade with the moving prices! it is a different kind of trading!
speculation needs moving in prices! that's why day trading is profitable (but if you know what you do only).
and for speculation i must know and understated the currency, as well the things behind it.
further i must read the chart. each candle i must understand!
then i can get big profits.
by the way, if you can read a chart and if you do it regularly, you will see it before if someone plans a pump or dump. and if you are clever you see can assume when the pump/dump is over. it is all learning and understanding, as well knowing.

And please don't put two things in the same pot...

I don't think we have enough information.  I have spent a ton of time on the forum and have only been offered to join a Arbitrage once. I passed as I didnt think it would do much.  In the end they got 10 percent profit.  This was in about 30 day's (at some point it did show a loss).

If someone has a working Arbitrage bot they will not speak up or talk about it.  It is worth to much money to them if it's working.

[CoinFriend]

as the price returns to normal.

To elaborate further: as the price drops forever till shitcoin is delisted at exchanges everywhere and you are now the proud bagholder of worthless coins.

Speaking from experience ... dammit.

Hey man, the block chain still exists of those coins!
It is only the exchange which means to delist the coin, because it is not profitable for the exchange. I don't like this idea...
c-cex and bittrex are exchanges who watch at the profit firstly.

since few moths there is a new exchange, they have a strict NO delist policy!
they provide also mining pools for all coins!
and they have a own marketplace which works like you know from ebay, but only whit crypto currency.
Since i trade there it is my favorite home of crypto

Finally, don't fall for the pump-and-dump scams. If you aren't the one doing the pumping, then you must be the victim.

Could you elaborate a bit on the whole pump-and-dump 'process'?  Is this what people in the 'pumpers picks' thread got suckered into doing?  It feels like that whole thread is one guy taking advantage of everyone else there...

it's very straightforward.

• Step 1: Buy an asset.
• Step 2: Convince people that the price of the asset is going to rise, and that they should buy it -- the "pump".
• Step 3. Sell the asset once the price has risen because of all the people fooled by the "pump" bought it. -- the "dump"
• Step 4. Enjoy the wealth. Laugh at the people that lose money as the price returns to normal.

hey, never trust someone who say buy this coin!
i such a case i would do the opposite maybe. better i stay away.
there is no reason to get invested due to someone others advice.

but if you see a bump/dump, you can still use the spread to gain some profits.
i did this for example with html5/ltc, it went many times up and down at the last time.
the direction was clear and this allowed me to go behind the spread also...
HTML5 and LTC are base currencys on bleutrade. and bleutrade is good to buy some coins cheap.
i am lucky now to have some more html5 and ltc
and nobody told me to buy or sell the coins, but i got profits from the pumps and dumps finally...

[OBAViJEST]

Buy Low Sell High.

To know what's low and high you have to determine it yourself.
It's all about how you predict the market. if you think it's gonna be a strong day
then you can probably buy a below the 24 hr average in bulk and sell a bit lower than the highest ask.

That's what I used to do, got 30$ out of 12$ worth of alt coin back when NXT was inflating

Interesting...sounds pretty risky though!  Regardless good job on making that profit off NXT and that username...most resolute, my liege.  Such obstinance must surely invoke the wrath of many a state servant...DBAN, a most trusted defense I presume!

[odolvlobo]

I'm not saying don't trade, I'm saying don't trade widgets if you don't know what a widget is or how it works or why someone would want to buy or sell a widget. If you don't have a good idea where the price is going to go, then you are just guessing and you are going to lose money.

Arbitrage does not work as well as most people think.
Arbitrage works in theory, but not so well in practice.

Do you have a reason why you say that? Experience?

I have had experience with arbitrage in the stock market and in the crypto-currency markets.

It doesn't work well in practice because you are competing with many people for the tiny discrepancies in price. The key to making money in arbitrage is to find and execute on an opportunity before anybody else does. That's not easy. Automation is key.

[CoinFriend]

I don't think we have enough information.  I have spent a ton of time on the forum and have only been offered to join a Arbitrage once. I passed as I didn't think it would do much.  In the end they got 10 percent profit.  This was in about 30 day's (at some point it did show a loss).

If someone has a working Arbitrage bot they will not speak up or talk about it.  It is worth to much money to them if it's working.

About information. I search only coin relevant data here, some specifications / technical details. They are good to know and really important if you plan a long time investment!

Other than you, i spend the most time on exchanges and search for arbitrage opportunities.
Arbitrage is a situation of two or more markets (on the same or different exchanges, like bittrex and cryptsy)!

Arbitrage is nothing that someone offer to participate on it! (Or i got your point wrong and don't understand what you mean whit "have only been offered to join a Arbitrage"; also i dot understand the 30 days...)

If someone offer you a possible trade he could do it for his own profit maybe. But by the way, 10% is a good reward for a arbitrage trade.
To execute a arbitrage needs only a short amount of time. Only the time you need to create the orders on the involved markets + the time to withdrawal coins from one to a other exchange, if they not already on balance.


Hey, please tell me more about your arbitrage, and how it was in detail. I will be sure that we talk about the same...

[CoinFriend]

I'm not saying don't trade, I'm saying don't trade widgets if you don't know what a widget is or how it works or why someone would want to buy or sell a widget. If you don't have a good idea where the price is going to go, then you are just guessing and you are going to lose money.

Arbitrage does not work as well as most people think.
Arbitrage works in theory, but not so well in practice.

Do you have a reason why you say that? Experience?

I have had experience with arbitrage in the stock market and in the crypto-currency markets.

It doesn't work well in practice because you are competing with many people for the tiny discrepancies in price. The key to making money in arbitrage is to find and execute on an opportunity before anybody else does. That's not easy. Automation is key.

Okay, now i understand you have experience with a direct kind of arbitrage. And this problem i know very well. The best opportunities here are only if markets change the price, then you can use the difference between markets to profit from it.
look for example on the doge/btc markets. there is no arbitrage possible, price is all the same on different exchanges.
only automation is fast enough to get the chance sometimes.

and that's why i have my own strategies now.
one is for example: i search for markets/coins with low volume and big spread. a spread which is bigger as the spread on the same market on a other exchange (or as the same coin against a other base currency)!
if i found a market i place a order to buy a coin cheap
.it need some time now. i can see on the order book already before i place the buy-order if people sell coins for low prices on this market. and i predict how long it could need to fill my order.
this way i get the coins cheap after a while. then i can sell it on a other exchange on the same market. or maybe i can do a 3 way arbitrage on the same exchange.
this way of arbitrage is harder to automatize. it is indirect because i have planed the first step and have to wait for the execution.
and if the other market (where i like to sell) went down in price, i am able to cancel my buy-order.

and yes, arbitrage is possible on the stock and coin markets, as well on the local market between towns, and with apples.
If i know that someone buy 1 apple for 1 bitcoin in town B.
And i know due to my research that somebody in town A sells a apples sometimes for 0.8 bitcoin.
I will place a order in town A on the market to pay him 0.85 bitcoin for the apple.
It needs some time, but after the next harvest i get 1 apple for 0.85 bitcoin. Now i need 0.05 bitcoin to travel to town B (it's like the withdrawal fee). Now in town B i sell my apple for 1 bitcoin and have 0.1 bitcoin profit.

And if i do this example between countries with different local currencies, then i have a 3 way arbitrage. Here is the important 3. step to exchange the foreign currency back to my own local currency, to make the arbitrage process complete.

[not altcoin hitler]

Arbitrage never in a down market. In a bullmarket arbitrage can make a couple of extra bucks if everything works out in a timely manner (no problems with wallets at the exchanges). In a down market it can easily happen that while your coins transfer from one exchange to the other price goes down and you actuallly lost money on it. So arbitrage is best in uptrend.
Generally there isn't a lot money in arbitrage, only on rare occasions one can find profitable opportunities.
One also needs to take withdrawal fees into account.

Arbitrageurs will like this page: http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/arbitrage


btw: coin competition is running. One can practice with play money trading btc. The winner is determined once in a month and can win 5 btc

https://www.coincompetition.com

Also good to practice trading.

[not altcoin hitler]

The only way to make money trading to know more about the thing you are trading than the people you are trading with. If you trade based on charts or speculation or rumor, you are going to lose to the people that actually know what's going on.

Don't believe most of what other people say. They know a lot less than they think they know.

Don't get suckered by people selling stuff books and bots and get-rich-quick schemes. There is no successful trading strategy. Successful trading is opportunistic -- you see an opportunity and you take it.

Finally, don't fall for the pump-and-dump scams. If you aren't the one doing the pumping, then you must be the victim.

Could you elaborate a bit on the whole pump-and-dump 'process'?  Is this what people in the 'pumpers picks' thread got suckered into doing?  It feels like that whole thread is one guy taking advantage of everyone else there...

Pump and dump (which is illegal in regulated markets) means a product is hyped up after it was silently bought up (normally with microbuys or any other covert method of accumulation by a whale. If you are good at looking at the markets you can spot these activities (that strategy is called "whale watching"). If you are a good whale watcher and manage to get in before the pump you have the edge. But most people chase pumps and they loose. People see price rocket and listen to the hype and they buy into rising markets. Often times the coin dumps on them and they ended up buying high. So if you chase pumps look for fast enter and very fast exit again. Better to be whale watching and try to get in on ground level. The whales speculate on people chasing the pumps and the pump chasers are normally the ones loosing out.

The pumper picks thread is bullshit of course. Never follow any investement advice because the people giving that advice a) do something illigal in issuing that advice and b) do it for personal gains. The one giving investement advice normally just advertises what he just bought so he actually wants to sell to you. Never join pump groups and especially not for entry fee. It's 99,9% scams. The way to make money in the markets is to go solo and improve on your own skills. Don't ever rely on other people. Learn from your mistakes. When you loose money: ask yourself why and try to identify the mistake and try to never do that mistake again. This is also the way chessplayers improve their game.

Generally: don't buy into coins which are already up by 60%+ in short time. Best is to be in early or stay out entirely.

Protip:
It's time to buy, when really everyone is butthurt and it's time to sell when everyone is euphoric. When people cry "to the moon" a lot it's time to sell 

[CoinFriend]

Arbitrage never in a down market. In a bullmarket arbitrage can make a couple of extra bucks if everything works out in a timely manner (no problems with wallets at the exchanges). In a down market it can easily happen that while your coins transfer from one exchange to the other price goes down and you actuallly lost money on it. So arbitrage is best in uptrend.
Generally there isn't a lot money in arbitrage, only on rare occasions one can find profitable opportunities.
One also needs to take withdrawal fees into account.

Arbitrageurs will like this page: http://www.cryptocoincharts.info/arbitrage


btw: coin competition is running. One can practice with play money trading btc. The winner is determined once in a month and can win 5 btc

https://www.coincompetition.com

Also good to practice trading.

nice to see someone with experience.
but i can not agree fully in every point!

the direction in which a market moves should be regardless for a arbitrage.
but you can get a problem if you have to transfer coins, right! only in such a case can a fast down trend be the problem.
but if you know that you have a down trend you can place a buy order wich get filled in future...(in case of a down trend)

and further, not for every arbitrage you need to transfer coins from exchange A to exchange B. the best case is you have on both exchanges the same coins. you sent them to a other exchange only to hold equal account balances (but i recommend this for base currencies only)

and especially a 3-way-arbitrage can be really profitable in a downtrend! (but in a up tend in the same way) but i didn't know a website which is showing such a opportunity. also here you have to place that get filled in future.

maybe tomorrow or the next days i write more about this...

and for the newbies:
up tend is called also: bull market
downtrend is a: bear market



 

[CoinFriend]

The only way to make money trading to know more about the thing you are trading than the people you are trading with. If you trade based on charts or speculation or rumor, you are going to lose to the people that actually know what's going on.

Don't believe most of what other people say. They know a lot less than they think they know.

Don't get suckered by people selling stuff books and bots and get-rich-quick schemes. There is no successful trading strategy. Successful trading is opportunistic -- you see an opportunity and you take it.

Finally, don't fall for the pump-and-dump scams. If you aren't the one doing the pumping, then you must be the victim.

Could you elaborate a bit on the whole pump-and-dump 'process'?  Is this what people in the 'pumpers picks' thread got suckered into doing?  It feels like that whole thread is one guy taking advantage of everyone else there...

Pump and dump (which is illegal in regulated markets) means a product is hyped up after it was silently bought up (normally with microbuys or any other covert method of accumulation by a whale. If you are good at looking at the markets you can spot these activities (that strategy is called "whale watching"). If you are a good whale watcher and manage to get in before the pump you have the edge. But most people chase pumps and they loose. People see price rocket and listen to the hype and they buy into rising markets. Often times the coin dumps on them and they ended up buying high. So if you chase pumps look for fast enter and very fast exit again. Better to be whale watching and try to get in on ground level. The whales speculate on people chasing the pumps and the pump chasers are normally the ones loosing out.

The pumper picks thread is bullshit of course. Never follow any investement advice because the people giving that advice a) do something illigal in issuing that advice and b) do it for personal gains. The one giving investement advice normally just advertises what he just bought so he actually wants to sell to you. Never join pump groups and especially not for entry fee. It's 99,9% scams. The way to make money in the markets is to go solo and improve on your own skills. Don't ever rely on other people. Learn from your mistakes. When you loose money: ask yourself why and try to identify the mistake and try to never do that mistake again. This is also the way chessplayers improve their game.

Generally: don't buy into coins which are already up by 60%+ in short time. Best is to be in early or stay out entirely.

Protip:
It's time to buy, when really everyone is butthurt and it's time to sell when everyone is euphoric. When people cry "to the moon" a lot it's time to sell 

this should become a separate topic, it is a lot to say about chart reading.
also this is a separate way of trading, much more speculative as arbitrage only. arbitrage is a more calculation.
but with a pumped or dumped market is arbitrage to different markets/exchanges very good possible and high profitable!

but the important point is the own knowledge!
you say this already: never trust someone if he say it is time to buy or sell. ( mostly never )

[OBAViJEST]

Well,if you create a new thread, let me know! All this info is blowing my mind right now, so I'm still processing and practicing everything being said here.

Please continue...thanks again for all the advice, guys

[CoinFriend]

Well,if you create a new thread, let me know! All this info is blowing my mind right now, so I'm still processing and practicing everything being said here.

Please continue...thanks again for all the advice, guys

I believe it is really hard stuff for someone who is new into trading. And it is lot of information too. Enough to write books about this all... But i think, practicing is the best way for learning and to find out how things work.

Maybe you saw today some arbitrage opportunity between different exchanges with DOGE/BTC. DOGE is in down trend! Today it went faster down than the last days.
For example, i saw a difference between CRYPTOPIA and CRYPTSY. So i sold my DOGE on CRYPTOPIA and brought them back at the same time on CRYPTSY, 1 satoshi cheaper.
This way i have done a 2-way-arbitrage without processing a transaction between each arbitrage step.
Only after completion i sent some DOGE back to CRAPTOPIA.
Now someone maybe means, only one satoshi, this is like nothing. Yeah right, it is only a smal profit, but now i have some more BTC on balance on CRYPTOPIA. (and further, i need BTC there for other trades)
With such kind of trade i can move BTC form one to another exchange faster and cheaper than sending them. CRYPTSY has a really high transactions fees in comparison to other exchanges. Sending DOGE and other coins doesn't cost that much.

[pooya87]

1) I've spread my bits around into various coins. 
2) Because I have no idea what I'm doing -
3) and at the same time putting all my trust in you guys

these are your 3 biggest mistakes.
1) first one is actually a good idea to spread your money to reduce the risk of losing it in one place but only if you know where to put it.
2) try to read the altcoin section, topics about trading and stuff like that and then watch the market. it is not that hard to learn how it works
3) never trust what other people are telling you to buy or sell. it is not 100% but most of the time they are either wrong or lying or trolling.

[gkv9]

Buy Low Sell High.

To know what's low and high you have to determine it yourself.
It's all about how you predict the market. if you think it's gonna be a strong day
then you can probably buy a below the 24 hr average in bulk and sell a bit lower than the highest ask.

That's what I used to do, got 30$ out of 12$ worth of alt coin back when NXT was inflating

The buy low sell high strategy is good...
But when it comes to inflation, if you are talking about the total amount of altcoins supply rather than the price of that coin in BTC, I would say that most of the times, inflation will only lead you to loss as I have seen many people made money in 10k and Balls, but many lost too thinking that the price might go up a lot, but it didn't as dumpers were ready just to f*ck off the markets wholeheartedly...

[odolvlobo]

Buy Low Sell High.

To know what's low and high you have to determine it yourself.
It's all about how you predict the market. if you think it's gonna be a strong day
then you can probably buy a below the 24 hr average in bulk and sell a bit lower than the highest ask.

That's what I used to do, got 30$ out of 12$ worth of alt coin back when NXT was inflating

The buy low sell high strategy is good...
But when it comes to inflation, if you are talking about the total amount of altcoins supply rather than the price of that coin in BTC, I would say that most of the times, inflation will only lead you to loss as I have seen many people made money in 10k and Balls, but many lost too thinking that the price might go up a lot, but it didn't as dumpers were ready just to f*ck off the markets wholeheartedly...

Buy low, sell high is not a strategy.

[notlist3d]

Buy Low Sell High.

To know what's low and high you have to determine it yourself.
It's all about how you predict the market. if you think it's gonna be a strong day
then you can probably buy a below the 24 hr average in bulk and sell a bit lower than the highest ask.

That's what I used to do, got 30$ out of 12$ worth of alt coin back when NXT was inflating

The buy low sell high strategy is good...
But when it comes to inflation, if you are talking about the total amount of altcoins supply rather than the price of that coin in BTC, I would say that most of the times, inflation will only lead you to loss as I have seen many people made money in 10k and Balls, but many lost too thinking that the price might go up a lot, but it didn't as dumpers were ready just to f*ck off the markets wholeheartedly...

Buy low, sell high is not a strategy.

I would agree.  It is a ever changing market we don't have a high and low. 

If buy low sell high works we would all make a fortune....

[foxkyu]

Buy Low Sell High.

To know what's low and high you have to determine it yourself.
It's all about how you predict the market. if you think it's gonna be a strong day
then you can probably buy a below the 24 hr average in bulk and sell a bit lower than the highest ask.

That's what I used to do, got 30$ out of 12$ worth of alt coin back when NXT was inflating

The buy low sell high strategy is good...
But when it comes to inflation, if you are talking about the total amount of altcoins supply rather than the price of that coin in BTC, I would say that most of the times, inflation will only lead you to loss as I have seen many people made money in 10k and Balls, but many lost too thinking that the price might go up a lot, but it didn't as dumpers were ready just to f*ck off the markets wholeheartedly...

Buy low, sell high is not a strategy.

it's the law of trading. if you want profit then buy low sell high, that was absolute
in trading altcoin if you believe coin have a future, then hold. if it just PnD coin then dump. that my stategy

[pooya87]

Buy Low Sell High.

To know what's low and high you have to determine it yourself.
It's all about how you predict the market. if you think it's gonna be a strong day
then you can probably buy a below the 24 hr average in bulk and sell a bit lower than the highest ask.

That's what I used to do, got 30$ out of 12$ worth of alt coin back when NXT was inflating

The buy low sell high strategy is good...
But when it comes to inflation, if you are talking about the total amount of altcoins supply rather than the price of that coin in BTC, I would say that most of the times, inflation will only lead you to loss as I have seen many people made money in 10k and Balls, but many lost too thinking that the price might go up a lot, but it didn't as dumpers were ready just to f*ck off the markets wholeheartedly...

Buy low, sell high is not a strategy.

I would agree.  It is a ever changing market we don't have a high and low. 

If buy low sell high works we would all make a fortune....

buy low sell high is true if you have a magic ball which you can see the future in it, or somehow you are controlling the market. otherwise it is not possible to tell the low and high value especially in an altcoin scene