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Author Topic: [Poll] what do you think about indonesian government's policy of executing drug dealers?  (Read 1046 times)
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April 30, 2015, 03:59:10 AM
Last edit: April 30, 2015, 04:11:50 AM by Katsou
 #1

Indonesian executing drug dealers came up a lot in the news lately and it seems there's quite a number of protesters everywhere.

I don't understand why should we pity them, I think the world would be better without drugs.


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April 30, 2015, 07:04:01 AM
 #2

Executing dealers to fight drug lords its like using air freshener after taking a dump, the smell is unnoticeable but if you didn't flush the toilet the shit is still there. If the authorities are just cleaning the streets of drug dealers that's good but killing them want solve the problem. Also some of them are just stupid people that wanted to earn quick and easy cash, they should be punished but not so harsh.
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April 30, 2015, 07:28:00 AM
 #3

i'm against the death penalty except during times of war and other emergencies but every one of these people knew what they were doing and knew the risks.

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April 30, 2015, 08:44:36 AM
 #4

Executing the drug cartel kingpins would have been OK, IMO. But executing the mules / carriers was avoidable. To treat any disease, you should find out the root cause and then eliminate it. Treating the symptoms will not do any good.
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April 30, 2015, 10:01:34 AM
 #5

If you're killing someone other than in immediate self-defense, you're just a murderer. Death is also hardly a sufficient punishment for any crime, otherwise it would be an absolute deterrent.

Saying that you don't trust someone because of their behavior is completely valid.
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April 30, 2015, 11:38:29 AM
 #6

Execution won't solve drug problem. If it will, the whole countries would have followed suit. I don't support drug business, but i condemn murder. There are other ways to get rid of this substance. Indonesia is not more intelligent than the West.
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April 30, 2015, 11:02:26 PM
 #7

Agree with the last two, they're just murdering people; killing someone over trade is barbaric and inhumane, no matter what's being traded; even just fines are unacceptable, the action is non-violent and beneficial to both parties by its very nature.  All drug dealers do is supply a demand, and so long as there's the supply (point A, the drug lords) and demand (point B, the drug users), there will be these middlemen who get the drugs from point A to point B.  This law will make the trade more expensive and risky, but the demand and the supply aren't going anywhere, so all they do is raise the price since finding willing & more experienced (to avoid detection) middlemen will be much more difficult.  The only way to raise the price high enough for this to finally discourage completely is for the state to be all-encompassing and omnipotent--it must become totalitarian, think Orwellian levels of governing, to which there's no way to avoid detection anymore, your entire life is monitored to ensure you do no wrongdoing.

AND STILL that's not going to stop the market, it simply cannot be done.  You can turn the whole thing black (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union ), but so long as there's desire or need, it's going to happen.  All this law does is make things harder on everyone (increased crime due to black market status, since trade is taken care of by, drum roll please...criminals), make things esp. harder for the drug users (who are the only ones who can truly stop the drug trade), while giving the state increased ability to kill its own civilians, so I hope the Indonesian court system is perfect because inevitably someone innocent is gonna get accused of dealing and get the guillotine, whether by another civilian or by the state itself seeking to eliminate whatever unwanted individuals.

So even if you have complete contempt for drug users, you're not going to stop it even with the threat of death.  As is usual when it comes to politics, the only true solution is outside of its scope; as it turns out, applying violence liberally over a non-violent situation winds up making things worse, whoever could have guessed?  Who, in the thousands of years of using this as the solution to everything and having it backfire, could have ever known? Shocked

In pretty much every nation, there are laws against murder, and yet murder still occurs; the threat of prison or even death does not stop wrongdoing, all it has is the presumption that "wihout it, things would be a lot worse," like everyone's just a stupid animal until law enforcers come around, like everyone's a psychopathic killer without the threat of legal action to stop them from slaughtering others at will; funny enough, none of the other animals do this, but apparently human intelligence also makes us murderous machines, according to law.  Legalism does not cure an ailing society (in fact it's an indicator of illness), all it does is provide the illusion of order; a society is just a collection of individuals, and if some of those individuals are not doing well--bad upbringing, chemical imbalance, or whatever it is--they will start doing things looked down upon (rape, killing, drugs, et al), no matter what is legal or illegal, no matter what the legal consequences of breaking the law, as is clearly observable today with all the killers, rapists, and drug users around despite all being illegal; they're around because, as said, the state is not all-encompassing so it cannot know who is or is not doing drugs, it's pointless to stop something without complete control over its citizenry (and even then it doesn't work because perfect control is impossible.)

Legalism is primitive, supported only by people who refuse the scientific method, for had they not, they would see how it doesn't work and only hurts everyone as time goes on.  Killing people over trade is just a testament to its primitive nature, it's hard to imagine anything less civilized.

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May 01, 2015, 12:14:55 AM
 #8

Indonesian executing drug dealers came up a lot in the news lately and it seems there's quite a number of protesters everywhere.

I don't understand why should we pity them, I think the world would be better without drugs.


vote and please refrain from using alts.


Why can't drug dealers be pumped and injected with the amount of their own product sold to people?


 Cool


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May 01, 2015, 01:16:47 AM
 #9

When I was younger I used to think all drug dealers should be given the death penalty but I didn't realize that they were the equivalent to bartenders, it's just one thing is legal and the other isn't. You're not serious about taking the violence and other associated drug problems out of the drug business until they are legalized and the product costs similar to aspirin. Those proficient in the use of force enter black markets where the authorities can't be called to help out.
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May 01, 2015, 09:18:52 AM
 #10

The issues behind drug use are not resolvable by any government. Death penalty for the "field crew" will surely not going to resolve anything.
However killing the bosses and high ranking members of the involved gangs could temporarily help a bit, and usually these gangsters are deserve to die.
(On the side note, the executives of big pharma and most food processing companies should join them on the death row, as they are doing as much or even more damage to ppl than drug barons.)
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May 01, 2015, 10:08:34 AM
 #11

Eliminate the demand first and there will be no supply. I think in the past people did not need softener to wash their clothes, but another people offered and sell them so these items are in our list of daily expenses... in capitalism community what people need is what available in market... so eliminate the supply.
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May 02, 2015, 08:37:32 PM
 #12

Governments always kill people who cut into their profits.  Smiley

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May 02, 2015, 08:44:59 PM
 #13

The issues behind drug use are not resolvable by any government. Death penalty for the "field crew" will surely not going to resolve anything.
However killing the bosses and high ranking members of the involved gangs could temporarily help a bit, and usually these gangsters are deserve to die.
(On the side note, the executives of big pharma and most food processing companies should join them on the death row, as they are doing as much or even more damage to ppl than drug barons.)


Good point, maybe stick them into labor camps if its viable along with any of the corrupt trash from healthcare, banking, and politics.
Legalizing the drugs would also end the problem in short order.

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May 02, 2015, 09:33:57 PM
Last edit: May 02, 2015, 09:47:58 PM by Beliathon
 #14

Indonesian executing drug dealers came up a lot in the news lately and it seems there's quite a number of protesters everywhere.
Capital punishment in the modern world is an asinine tragedy and a total abortion of justice. In capitalism, profit finds a way to be made as water finds a way to flow downhill. Executions change nothing.

Remember Aaron Swartz, a 26 year old computer scientist who died defending the free flow of information.
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May 02, 2015, 10:15:29 PM
 #15

Tackle the problem at source - Afghan poppy fields - cos heroin is the real problem, here in the UK anyway (maybe the States has its own ailments, I don't know)

Send in the troops, I say.

 Huh  Huh

Oh dear.


Smack dealers should be shot in my view - religion isn't the opiate of the people - the opium of the masses is, well, opium.

The decline in manufacturing industry in the UK has only been matched in scale by the influx of heroin into previously working class communities. It has absolutely flooded in - fuckin tidal waves of the stuff - you couldn't have made it up.
  It is positively encouraged - for much the same reasons one of the surest places to score is in prison.

Dealers profiting from this are in my view the scum of the earth.

What was the story about HSBC (?) laundering drug money again ?  
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May 04, 2015, 05:02:11 PM
 #16

Tackle the problem at source - Afghan poppy fields - cos heroin is the real problem, here in the UK anyway (maybe the States has its own ailments, I don't know)

Send in the troops, I say.

The NATO troops are already there, mate. And they are protecting the fields (and the crops).  Grin



You are not getting it. The Afghan poppy production is actually aided and encouraged by the USA. The main aim is to weaken Iran and Russia, by turning the young generation there to heroin addicts. Already some 3 million people have died of drug abuse in Russia, and hundreds of thousands have lost their lives in Iran. Without firing a shot, the US is destroying an entire generation of Russians and Iranians.
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