StakeMiners.com (Something ain't right)

[Bicknellski]

So unproven really.

They lock you in longer term and no easy way to withdrawal "early" without pain.

That is just not a good investment for anyone it has been around long enough to prove it can payout.

Sounds more like a pyramid / ponzi style system than a longer term investment at this stage.

Why not just buy and hold BTC rather than be TRAPPED in this investment?

How does this investment actually make an investor money? Explain it in simple terms.

You'd be better off punting at Coinarch with the boys there how are professionals. https://www.coinarch.com/

They at least are knowledgeable and experienced in securities unlike this fly by night operation.

I have withdrawn my investment payment is being received.
Felt it wasn't fast enough.

Was charge a 30% withdraw fee on my 2.0001btc investment.

https://blockchain.info/tx/2540cf1b407043bf078b54be6d254c5be77f61752501f662e14b1398f4852e91



Bitcoin transfer unconfirmed will update when its cleared.

-edit- refund cleared

So you lost BTC on this investment?

Only because i was impatient. And not really i had bought the btc in a 178 so all i lost was profit on the btc its self.

This is better for people who arnt active investors looking for big gains in a short time like im used to.

But they said they would repay investments and they paid mine back -30%

[1714913692]

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[crazyivan]

So unproven really.

They lock you in longer term and no easy way to withdrawal "early" without pain.

That is just not a good investment for anyone it has been around long enough to prove it can payout.

Sounds more like a pyramid / ponzi style system than a longer term investment at this stage.

Why not just buy and hold BTC rather than be TRAPPED in this investment?

How does this investment actually make an investor money? Explain it in simple terms.

You'd be better off punting at Coinarch with the boys there how are professionals. https://www.coinarch.com/

They at least are knowledgeable and experienced in securities unlike this fly by night operation.

I have withdrawn my investment payment is being received.
Felt it wasn't fast enough.

Was charge a 30% withdraw fee on my 2.0001btc investment.

https://blockchain.info/tx/2540cf1b407043bf078b54be6d254c5be77f61752501f662e14b1398f4852e91



Bitcoin transfer unconfirmed will update when its cleared.

-edit- refund cleared

So you lost BTC on this investment?

Only because i was impatient. And not really i had bought the btc in a 178 so all i lost was profit on the btc its self.

This is better for people who arnt active investors looking for big gains in a short time like im used to.

But they said they would repay investments and they paid mine back -30%

I see no problem with this issue u ve mentioned. The website clearly states there a fee for early withdrawal. I really do not understand why this guy decided to withdraw at 30% fee, his explanation of his ROI not being fast enough is simply not acceptable to me.

[Bicknellski]

I see no problem with this issue u ve mentioned. The website clearly states there a fee for early withdrawal. I really do not understand why this guy decided to withdraw at 30% fee, his explanation of his ROI not being fast enough is simply not acceptable to me.

Better losing 30% now than 100% later. That would be my take on that.

Seriously if you are investing in this losing 30% is the best you are going to do.

There is a huge issue with this as an investment.

Who is running it?
Are they licensed to carry this sort of security in their country or internationally?
What experience do they have with such a venture?
What experience do they have in securities?
How is the money made in this investment?

Simple explanation anyone would be nice on how this real investment opportunity run by verifiable experts.

Don't put your money in this dog.

[FruitsBasket]

The thing  it is staking worthless POS altcoins..

[Bicknellski]

The thing  it is staking worthless POS altcoins..

Staking?  You give them money to STAKE for you?

I get the worthless Proof of Stake Altcoins part.

Better off just buying up some Altcoin and holding it what is the point of the "broker".

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Proof_of_Stake

[jdebunt]

I don't see the point/benefit in this service either except feeding the pyramid scheme. And 30% early withdrawal fee? dafuq...

[Bicknellski]

I don't see the point/benefit in this service either except feeding the pyramid scheme. And 30% early withdrawal fee? dafuq...

Yup.

The argument would be keep it in longer to see return which is just another form of ponzi / pyramid I call Bullshit.

If you want to get POS coins just do it direct there is no need of a middle man at all.

[favdesu]

I don't see the point/benefit in this service either except feeding the pyramid scheme. And 30% early withdrawal fee? dafuq...

Yup.

The argument would be keep it in longer to see return which is just another form of ponzi / pyramid I call Bullshit.

If you want to get POS coins just do it direct there is no need of a middle man at all.

the only reason to "crowd fund" a staker is for DARK/DASH - if I remember correctly you need at least 1k to stake. makes no sense to trust a 3rd party for every other PoS coin.

[jdebunt]

the only reason to "crowd fund" a staker is for DARK/DASH - if I remember correctly you need at least 1k to stake. makes no sense to trust a 3rd party for every other PoS coin.

Rather get a masternode though but that's just a personal preference

[arallmuus]

How does this investment actually make an investor money? Explain it in simple terms.

Who is running it?
Are they licensed to carry this sort of security in their country or internationally?
What experience do they have with such a venture?
What experience do they have in securities?
How is the money made in this investment?

Simple explanation anyone would be nice on how this real investment opportunity run by verifiable experts.

Don't put your money in this dog.

How about heading in here and check this out https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=989670.msg11131620#msg11131620.

This is a Q&A between me and cyberpinoy (the owner of the sites) you might find the answer on your question especially on how they are running it and why is the huge fee is applied on the investment withdrawal.
The whole Q&A is too long to be copied  in here and might as well head to the link to feed out your curiousity

P.S : Im not defending them and Im here on the gray zone, the whole Q&A session ws to feed on my curiousity on how things in their site works since they are the first to make this kind of business

[crazyivan]

I see no problem with this issue u ve mentioned. The website clearly states there a fee for early withdrawal. I really do not understand why this guy decided to withdraw at 30% fee, his explanation of his ROI not being fast enough is simply not acceptable to me.

Better losing 30% now than 100% later. That would be my take on that.

Seriously if you are investing in this losing 30% is the best you are going to do.

There is a huge issue with this as an investment.

Who is running it?
Are they licensed to carry this sort of security in their country or internationally?
What experience do they have with such a venture?
What experience do they have in securities?
How is the money made in this investment?

Simple explanation anyone would be nice on how this real investment opportunity run by verifiable experts.

Don't put your money in this dog.

As with any other crypto venture we see everyday.
Licence in the cryptoworld??? Which company or service is actually licensed.

I have invested a small amount and so far the result ROI withing a year. Been with them for over a month.

[Bicknellski]

The Q & A doesn't really mean much.

Basically you don't need a 3rd party to stake coins. Why would anyone need this service? Especially if they hold you hostage for days to weeks or possibly months or forever. How is this any different than a cloud mining operation asking for contracts for x days that you can transfer?

This is set up already more likely a pyramid or ponzi or cloud mining operation that has no physical miners. The reason why there is no defined reason to believe there is a way to generate revenue nor is this process being documented for the investors anywhere on the website. What is the principal doing to achieve ROI 'within a year' for you and sufficient revenue to keep stakeminers going?

Stakeminers is an arbitrage scheme. Is this person qualified to run an arbitrage?

I have invested a small amount and so far the result ROI withing a year. Been with them for over a month.

You have invested.

You have no results of ROI within a year since you been with 'them' for only over a month.

Here is my take away on your statements so far you have given this completely anonymous person (not a company registered in any way legally) BTC and you have to wait 1 year to see any ROI?

Ya ok... so you would recommend this because you like giving BTC to people for a year and hope to get ROI with no clear explanation on how that would be achieved and provide sufficient revenue to keep this person managing the business? Has he explained the risks or terms and conditions or liability to you?

Should people feel uneasy about this investment would they not start promoting it just to get an ROI for themselves and ignore the potential for losses later after they make their money? Classic ponzi. Please educate yourself.

Lest We Forget:

https://www.techinasia.com/bitcoin-pyramid-scheme-hong-kong-387m-investors-money/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jordanmaglich/2014/11/06/texas-man-arrested-for-4-5-million-bitcoin-ponzi-scheme/
http://www.sec.gov/investor/alerts/ia_virtualcurrencies.pdf

Code:

Bitcoin Ponzi Scheme. In a recent case, SEC v.
Shavers, the organizer of an alleged Ponzi scheme
advertised a Bitcoin “investment opportunity” in
an online Bitcoin forum. Investors were allegedly
promised up to 7% interest per week and that the
invested funds would be used for Bitcoin arbitrage
activities in order to generate the returns. Instead,
invested Bitcoins were allegedly used to pay existing
investors and exchanged into U.s. dollars to pay
the organizer’s personal expenses.

So let us recap shall we:

     * There is absolutely no legal registration of this company in any jurisdiction.

     * None of the principal 'owners' are identified in the event there is legal battle you would have to work pretty    
        hard to track down the individuals involved.

     * The principals involved have little or no experienced in staking or POS coins. They have zero qualifications to
        run such an investment portfolio for others. There  is no documentation of work or education experience or  
        background of the principal(s) involved.

     * You can't get your BTC out in the short term without a massive penalty.

     * There is no reasonable or clear explanation of the business model or in other words how this service generates
        revenue for the owner and roi for investors.

     * There are no reasonable explanations to use this service given you can and should stake on your own if you  
        want to invest in POS coins.

     * Claims that stakeminers.com is the 'MOST PROFITABLE WAY TO MINE'. That is surely misleading at least and
        illegal at most to make that claim. Since claims like that are subject to oversight by consumer protection
        agencies. It should be reported.

Here are some links and information just in case they will be needed by 'investors'.

Info on Complaints: http://www.dti.gov.ph/dti/index.php/services/for-consumers

Consumer Protection and Advocacy Bureau (CPAB)
2F Trade and Industry Building
361 Sen. Gil J. Puyat Ave.
Makati City, Philippines 1200
Trunkline: (+632) 751.3233
Fax: (+632) 890.4949
E-mail: cpab@dti.gov.ph



DO NOT PUT ANYTHING INTO THIS VENTURE.

---

Here is a just one legit way to try and earn without having to mine from a fully registered company in Bitcoinland.

https://www.coinarch.com/

Do more than just buy and sell bitcoins. Maximise your profits with our suite of world leading bitcoin trading products.

https://www.coinarch.com/en/Info/OurLeader

Mark Hergott

Mark is a Co-Founder of Coinarch. He has a diverse background including engineering, management consulting and project management with a recent focus on financial markets having worked as an exotic derivatives trader for investment banks in Hong Kong and Australia for over four years. Mark has a Bachelor of Engineering and Graduate Diploma in Business Enterprise.

How it works:

https://www.coinarch.com/en/Info/AboutCoinarch

Terms:

https://media.coinarch.com/Tag_6.4.0/Content/Terms-and-conditions-jan-15.pdf

I hope people compare the two and think about it. With real faces and experience to back it up. If you want to really spend your coins on some anonymous guy on the net just answer those get rich quick emails please.

[crazyivan]

First, I do not recommend anything, I play with my own money.

Second, only a total fool can think you do this campaign against Stakeminers cause of altruism. Nobody writes tons and tons unverified accusation just for fun.

What I see so far is about 1 year ROI, been paid on time, regularly.

True, I can stake this by myself but I really have no time to chase coins, sell them, convert everything, check for forks, check for wallet updates of 4,5,10 different PoS currencies so I like what they offer for now.

[arallmuus]

The Q & A doesn't really mean much.

It doesnt mean much because cyberpinoy is answering most of my question in general and not specifically. If you read it atleast it feed on atleast some of your question and not much

Basically you don't need a 3rd party to stake coins. Why would anyone need this service?

The same thing on why you let someone mine for you via cloud mining if you can mine for yourself, true? The reason is simple because someone will always look for this kind of business where you do nothing and just put in your money to get something for X periods of time

Especially if they hold you hostage for days to weeks or possibly months or forever. How is this any different than a cloud mining operation asking for contracts for x days that you can transfer?

Almost the same, the main difference will be that this stakeminers is "staking" rather than mining, the other concept is totally the same where your money is in the hostage for X days before you reached your ROI

[Bicknellski]

1 year ROI being paid on time, regularly?

This is very familiar. People have been promised REGULAR payments before.

Code:

Bitcoin Ponzi Scheme. In a recent case, SEC v.
Shavers, the organizer of an alleged Ponzi scheme
advertised a Bitcoin “investment opportunity” in
an online Bitcoin forum. Investors were allegedly
promised up to 7% interest per week and that the
invested funds would be used for Bitcoin arbitrage
activities in order to generate the returns. Instead,
invested Bitcoins were allegedly used to pay existing
investors and exchanged into U.s. dollars to pay
the organizer’s personal expenses.

You have been paid once and it is hardly ROI if you do not have more back than what you invested. If you do this is certainly a scam and no one else should pile on the ponzi bus.

I am doing this because this site is misleading and it will eventually collapse under mismanagement or outright fraud.

The questions remain and I suspect will continue to go unanswered.

There is no record of the principal actually doing any staking is there? Where can we see all the evidence for the principal chasing coins? Converting everything? Checking for forks? Checking wallet updates for 4,5,10 different PoS currencies?

You think he is doing all that for very little or no return himself?

I seriously loved to see all this work he is doing documented. I doubt he does anything.

The 30% he just made off the "major" investor...

Code:

Pay-off or Convincer

An actual or apparent paying of money by the conspirators 
to convince the victim and settle doubts by a cash demonstration. 
In the old banco game, the initial small bets which the victim 
was allowed to win were the pay-off. In stock swindles, the 
fake dividends sent to stockholders to encourage larger 
investments are the pay-off.

...will easily cover the minimal payouts required for the next little while but he needs to advertise pretty hard to make this work and it looks like he spends most of his time spamming these boards and not watching PoS coins and what not. How can he be monitoring such a complex investment scheme while posting walls of text?

What evidence is there that he has any experience and the necessary skills or intelligence to run such an investment?

If he is such a stand up guy and a great investment guru why won't he post a photo and some basic background about himself for everyone to see and a company registration number?

The Philippine Business Registry

It sounds like you know more than the principal in regards to what he does daily. Why is that? Why doesn't he explain his process to investors?

Come on buddy you are not going to start attacking me as a the villain here right? That is the classic shill move. Keep it on point and answer my questions. Why are you avoiding those questions?

----

Bottomline this for everyone.

We have an anonymous person taking BTC and paying out to people based on 12 month ROI.

At what point would you say no I am sorry but that is just not enough information to invest.

First, I do not recommend anything, I play with my own money.

Second, only a total fool can think you do this campaign against Stakeminers cause of altruism. Nobody writes tons and tons unverified accusation just for fun.

What I see so far is about 1 year ROI, been paid on time, regularly.

True, I can stake this by myself but I really have no time to chase coins, sell them, convert everything, check for forks, check for wallet updates of 4,5,10 different PoS currencies so I like what they offer for now.

[Bicknellski]

1. Where is there any evidence or documentation he is actually staking anything or doing all this work? Further who is this person and why is he qualified to run an investment that would require him to register with the SEC in the Philippines by law.

2. Exactly. Your returns with this are even more of an unknown because who the hell is this guy? Seriously where is he identified anywhere on that site or in these forums? Anyone running such an investment plan should be forthright about identifying themselves, the business and providing some background on their experience. Who in their right mind is going to give this person their BTC if he is not qualified to handle such an investment?

1. The same thing on why you let someone mine for you via cloud mining if you can mine for yourself, true? The reason is simple because someone will always look for this kind of business where you do nothing and just put in your money to get something for X periods of time

2. Almost the same, the main difference will be that this stakeminers is "staking" rather than mining, the other concept is totally the same where your money is in the hostage for X days before you reached your ROI

[arallmuus]

1. Where is there any evidence or documentation he is actually staking anything or doing all this work? Further who is this person and why is he qualified to run an investment that would require him to register with the SEC in the Philippines by law.

This could be an evidence that he is "staking" although this does not mean much but atleast it shows something rather than nothing

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=989670.msg11261113#msg11261113

and for who is this person , you might want to check this references

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=990219.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1016614.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1010427.0

This is a scam accusation but it covered up on who he is

2. Exactly. Your returns with this are even more of an unknown because who the hell is this guy?

Most "cloud" operators has been operating in shadow but this one actually shows up who he is. Well not actually he showed himself up but I found about it in scam accusation plus that having your personal info known will not stop you from running away with everyone's coins (just my concern)

Come on buddy you are not going to start attacking me as a the villain here right? That is the classic shill move.

First thing first, Ivan is not a shill i suppose and also perhaps anyone that disagree with your opinion is not likely a shill. Since this is a discussion thread you might expect a counterpoint from your own point of view

Not saying that I will defend them, Im just stating my opinion here as I have the same doubt and question as well like you but I will try to be neutral at least

[crazyivan]

1. Where is there any evidence or documentation he is actually staking anything or doing all this work? Further who is this person and why is he qualified to run an investment that would require him to register with the SEC in the Philippines by law.

2. Exactly. Your returns with this are even more of an unknown because who the hell is this guy? Seriously where is he identified anywhere on that site or in these forums? Anyone running such an investment plan should be forthright about identifying themselves, the business and providing some background on their experience. Who in their right mind is going to give this person their BTC if he is not qualified to handle such an investment?

1. The same thing on why you let someone mine for you via cloud mining if you can mine for yourself, true? The reason is simple because someone will always look for this kind of business where you do nothing and just put in your money to get something for X periods of time

2. Almost the same, the main difference will be that this stakeminers is "staking" rather than mining, the other concept is totally the same where your money is in the hostage for X days before you reached your ROI

I really have no interest of being part of this personal war you might have against stakeminers.com

I use them, will continue using them, been paid on time every Monday for the last 5 weeks, whenever I reached his payment threshold. Also, couldn't care less if anyone else uses their service or not so calling me a shill is a very nasty move from your side. I could easily call you names and start a full time discussion here, but what s the point.

He did actually share with me his personal data, including FB page. I have no way to verify this data nor will I attempt to, unless I decide to invest more sizable amount.

Crazyivan out of this discussion.

[Bicknellski]

Let us recap:

No company registration on his site.
No picture or information about the principals including evidence of experience, or training on the site.
No evidence provided he is staking or providing arbitrage on PoS coins on his site or to his customers.
No information posted on the site how it will recoup the costs of staking and provide return on investment.
One "major" investor pulled out lost 30% on his initial investment.
Unverifiable and misleading claim it is the  'MOST PROFITABLE WAY TO MINE'.

---

What I have a problem with is being told I couldn't be doing this as altruism. Really. Am I being paid for this? Seems odd I have no signature campaign? No, reason really to do this for profit. I wonder why then? Personally I dislike the misinformation and lack of openness of the people behind this venture. Obviously someone has made a bad choice of investment and doesn't want to hear the reasons why so is lashing out. That is a tactic also of the shill to attack the MAN not the ARGUMENT.

Continually comparing his site to cloud-mining is exactly why you should not be investing. This coupled with the fact our principal is not posting any information on his site to verify any business registration or his identity make this a recipe for a ponzi scheme. Finally there is no evidence the principal person has any experience or background to handle such a securities / investment scheme.

Just steer clear. The customers who have bought in to this do not have enough data to determine the viability of this investment. It is best to avoid such poorly explained and documented businesses on these forums. Especially when the principal is unwilling to openly identify them self on their site. It is not safe don't invest.

[crazyivan]

Let us recap:

No company registration on his site.
No picture or information about the principals including evidence of experience, or training on the site.
No evidence provided he is staking or providing arbitrage on PoS coins on his site or to his customers.
No information posted on the site how it will recoup the costs of staking and provide return on investment.
One "major" investor pulled out lost 30% on his initial investment.
Unverifiable and misleading claim it is the  'MOST PROFITABLE WAY TO MINE'.

---

What I have a problem with is being told I couldn't be doing this as altruism. Really. Am I being paid for this? Seems odd I have no signature campaign? No, reason really to do this for profit. I wonder why then? Personally I dislike the misinformation and lack of openness of the people behind this venture. Obviously someone has made a bad choice of investment and doesn't want to hear the reasons why so is lashing out. That is a tactic also of the shill to attack the MAN not the ARGUMENT.

Continually comparing his site to cloud-mining is exactly why you should not be investing. This coupled with the fact our principal is not posting any information on his site to verify any business registration or his identity make this a recipe for a ponzi scheme. Finally there is no evidence the principal person has any experience or background to handle such a securities / investment scheme.

Just steer clear. The customers who have bought in to this do not have enough data to determine the viability of this investment. It is best to avoid such poorly explained and documented businesses on these forums. Especially when the principal is unwilling to openly identify them self on their site. It is not safe don't invest.

Ok, let s develop your point then. What is safe to invest? Tell me a single crypto investment which has provided registration, contacts about people behind it, mining address, photos and all this is verifiable.
Pls do share this info since you are such an altruist so I can compare it to this one.