List of Lying deposit takers, and the reasons why

[chungenhung]

This is somewhat related to pirateat40 BTCST mess.

Many deposit takers on this forum state that the deposits are NOT invested in BTCST. They gather people to deposit with them, and simply turn around and put it with pirate. Sure, receiving 7% weekly from pirate and paying 2% out is very profitable.

I hate to be blunt here, but so far, a few "INSURED" or "GUARANTEED" deposits have went bust.

Here's the list:
1. Nckrazze. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81927.0
He stated the deposits are NOT placed in BTCST funds. But due to BTCST default, now he is UNABLE to pay back.
If the funds are not placed in BTCST, then what does BTCST default have anything to do with his ability to pay back?
He also stated a 35% reserve fund. If the fund is really reserved, then why can't he pay back 35% of the deposits?
In my opinion, he is lying.
2. IneededAUserName (INAU). https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91375.0
He stated that the pirate deposit is FULLY insured. Now BTCST has annouced default, but INAU still haven't paid back the "INSURED" deposits.
I was told to wait over a month to get my deposits back.
3. HashKing. Supposedly holds the INSURED coins from IneededAUserName. Now that pirate defaulted, HashKing is UNWILLING to pay out the deposits INAU have with him directly to me. Saying the deposit is a regular deposit, and thus the deposit will be returned to INAU. At that point, what if INAU just decides to run with the coins? This is NOT really HashKing's fault, as he said INAU never said the deposit is to be hold as escrow.
Update 09/08. HashKing has put all interest rates to 0% on all accounts, and have NOT been making payments. So, if I were to wait for INAU to get his coins from HK, I'll be fucked more by now.
4. imsaguy. Supposedly invests in mining hardware. But somehow, he got caught in the pirate mess too. Also, both imsaguy and HashKing said they need 3 years to pay back. Coincidence or planned?

To be determined:
1. Kluge. I was in a skype chat room with all the above guys. Started to ask imsaguy question about what is his REAL plan to repay investors. In the end, I got kicked out by Kluge.
This doesn't mean Kluge is a scam, but that is enough reason to believe Kluge is planning with the above guys.
Update. Kluge said b/c there's too much BS going on in the skype chat room, and he don't have time for the non-sense talk. On top of that, Kluge says his ISP gives him very limited bandwidth per month. I believe his house is in a remote area where broadband is not really available.
Kluge confirmed that he is working with imsaguy on a solution.

You are welcome to post what you think, and why I am wrong.
This post is not to create a war, but rather let people know what "INSURED" and "GUARANTEED" usually means nothing.

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[squall1066]

This is a good post and needs to be made, I have had dealings with chungenhung and cant fault him.
My reasons were not related to Pirateat40, But obviously came at the wrong time, It was handled well.
I hope to do business again when I am more stable.

[chungenhung]

This is a good post and needs to be made, I have had dealings with chungenhung and cant fault him.
My reasons were not related to Pirateat40, But obviously came at the wrong time, It was handled well.
I hope to do business again when I am more stable.

It sure came at the wrong time. Everyone was pulling deposits out at that time and I thought you were one of them with the same reasons.

[memvola]

I also would like to hear some counter-arguments, especially from the people involved.

hashking's response seems to make sense, so we'll see the result at the end of the term? It seems that it's still INAU's responsibility to return the coins though.

I think nckrazze needs to find a way to cover the loss ASAP. He's a trusted member of the community and he can continue to make money if he stands behind his word. I hope he's waiting for the pirate just to be able to measure the depth of trouble he's in.

[SgtSpike]

This post is not to create a war, but rather let people know what "INSURED" and "GUARANTEED" usually means nothing.

I kind of figured this much to begin with.  Why would I trust someone to insure funds any more than I would trust pirate to continue paying out?

[ineededausername]

I also would like to hear some counter-arguments, especially from the people involved.

hashking's response seems to make sense, so we'll see the result at the end of the term? It seems that it's still INAU's responsibility to return the coins though.

I think nckrazze needs to find a way to cover the loss ASAP. He's a trusted member of the community and he can continue to make money if he stands behind his word. I hope he's waiting for the pirate just to be able to measure the depth of trouble he's in.

It is my responsibility to return the coins to GIPPT.  Chungenhung and I have reached a private settlement on this matter, and I now owe nothing at all to chungenhung.  He will confirm this.

I confirm hashking's response is accurate.  His 8 week CD is being used to back GIPPT and when it is paid, everyone investing in GIPPT will be paid.  I do not know what all this commotion is about.

[bitcoinBull]

Okay. If "chungenhung" isn't a "lying deposit taker", we can still add him to the list of ponzi operators.

[dank]

I feel that Dank Bank should be added to the bottom list.

[Willowbitcoin]

ciciu was also one of the good guys. I believe he has wrapped up now though.

[chungenhung]

I also would like to hear some counter-arguments, especially from the people involved.

hashking's response seems to make sense, so we'll see the result at the end of the term? It seems that it's still INAU's responsibility to return the coins though.

I think nckrazze needs to find a way to cover the loss ASAP. He's a trusted member of the community and he can continue to make money if he stands behind his word. I hope he's waiting for the pirate just to be able to measure the depth of trouble he's in.

Correct, it is INAU's responsibility.
But I was under the feeling that if it is insured, at least HashKing should pay directly.
As of now, I got this settled with INAU.

[payb.tc]

i'm not going to name names, but i can confirm that some accounts in bitcoin max belong to 'deposit takers'.

these may or may not be the deposit takers' personal funds.

[hashking]

I also would like to hear some counter-arguments, especially from the people involved.

hashking's response seems to make sense, so we'll see the result at the end of the term? It seems that it's still INAU's responsibility to return the coins though.

I think nckrazze needs to find a way to cover the loss ASAP. He's a trusted member of the community and he can continue to make money if he stands behind his word. I hope he's waiting for the pirate just to be able to measure the depth of trouble he's in.

Correct, it is INAU's responsibility.
But I was under the feeling that if it is insured, at least HashKing should pay directly.
As of now, I got this settled with INAU.

Why would I pay directly if this was never setup as an escrow agreement.  Once again this was a regular deposit with no escrow agreement.  If there was some other information passed on to you by someone else then you need to take it up with them.

[Meni Rosenfeld]

The OP is wrong and a non-sequitur, the conclusions don't follow from the facts.

The situation with Pirate is causing a bank run where everyone rushes to withdraw all of their deposits. This can cause liquidity problems for all depositors, whether they are invested themselves or not.

Take Nckrazze for example. If he has 35% reserve and a customer constituting 10% of the deposits withdraws, he now has 25% reserve until he can replenish it (which takes time). After a few more withdraws the reserve will run out. He doesn't know in advance how many people will want to withdraw and it is legitimate to serve the first requesters in full.

With INAU it's even sillier. "Insured" doesn't mean he has funds lying around in completely liquid form doing nothing. If he did he'd have no need to take the deposit. The insurance means he has the funds in some useful illiquid form, and will pay them back in a default once liquidated.

I'm not saying anyone is or is not a liar, just that it doesn't follow from the facts you mentioned. And of course, if you hold yourself to a higher liquidity standard that's great.

[chungenhung]

I also would like to hear some counter-arguments, especially from the people involved.

hashking's response seems to make sense, so we'll see the result at the end of the term? It seems that it's still INAU's responsibility to return the coins though.

I think nckrazze needs to find a way to cover the loss ASAP. He's a trusted member of the community and he can continue to make money if he stands behind his word. I hope he's waiting for the pirate just to be able to measure the depth of trouble he's in.

It is my responsibility to return the coins to GIPPT.  Chungenhung and I have reached a private settlement on this matter, and I now owe nothing at all to chungenhung.  He will confirm this.

I confirm hashking's response is accurate.  His 8 week CD is being used to back GIPPT and when it is paid, everyone investing in GIPPT will be paid.  I do not know what all this commotion is about.

Correct.

[imsaguy]

May I propose we file this topic in trash now?

[cytokine]

The OP is wrong and a non-sequitur, the conclusions don't follow from the facts.

The situation with Pirate is causing a bank run where everyone rushes to withdraw all of their deposits. This can cause liquidity problems for all depositors, whether they are invested themselves or not.

Take Nckrazze for example. If he has 35% reserve and a customer constituting 10% of the deposits withdraws, he now has 25% reserve until he can replenish it (which takes time). After a few more withdraws the reserve will run out. He doesn't know in advance how many people will want to withdraw and it is legitimate to serve the first requesters in full.

With INAU it's even sillier. "Insured" doesn't mean he has funds lying around in completely liquid form doing nothing. If he did he'd have no need to take the deposit. The insurance means he has the funds in some useful illiquid form, and will pay them back in a default once liquidated.

I'm not saying anyone is or is not a liar, just that it doesn't follow from the facts you mentioned. And of course, if you hold yourself to a higher liquidity standard that's great.

+1000

Thanks Meni for posting this, and I really appreciate the professionalism and eloquence of your comments. I truely apologize for saying anything bad towards you in the past when I was pissed about PUREMINING. You have been nothing but honest and always upheld your obligations.

Meni is right that these deposit takers are having a serious liquidity crunch, and some are in default since they've stopped paying interest, but it doesn't mean that they're not ultimately good for their deposits. I'm tired of all this premature lynching going on, everyone needs to just be honest and uphold their obligations to their best of their abilities, and apart from that we need to just move on to new things. There's still a very good chance IMO that Pirate will settle for *something*, and so I expect the situation to improve over the next few weeks. At the very least, it certainly cannot get any worse than the current situation in which I'm operating under the assumption of a complete and total pirate default.

[JoelKatz]

Meni is right that these deposit takers are having a serious liquidity crunch, and some are in default since they've stopped paying interest, but it doesn't mean that they're not ultimately good for their deposits. I'm tired of all this premature lynching going on, everyone needs to just be honest and uphold their obligations to their best of their abilities, and apart from that we need to just move on to new things. There's still a very good chance IMO that Pirate will settle for *something*, and so I expect the situation to improve over the next few weeks. At the very least, it certainly cannot get any worse than the current situation in which I'm operating under the assumption of a complete and total pirate default.

Unfortunately, I think it can get worse.

We don't know how much of the liquidity crisis is from a withdrawal flood and how much of it is from non-paying loans. If some or much of it is from non-paying loans, then most likely it's because people borrowed money to invest in Pirate. Likely, those people have promised to make payments shortly, perhaps in the belief that Pirate would make at least partial repayments soon. But the reality is that it's likely most of those loans will fully default. An equity crisis can start out looking like a liquidity crisis.

Deposit-takers may have much more exposure to Pirate than they think. If they have loans that suddenly stopped paying interest shortly after Pirate did, they should probably assume those loans will default. Pirate may ultimately take down any number of other funds whose operators honestly thought they were doing the right thing but who, without even knowing it, were actually Ponzi schemes.

[finkleshnorts]

If some or much of it is from non-paying loans, then most likely it's because people borrowed money to invest in Pirate.

First-hand experience here. Sucks...

[bitcoinBull]

If some or much of it is from non-paying loans, then most likely it's because people borrowed money to invest in Pirate.

First-hand experience here. Sucks...

How many people tried to warn you? And not just about pirate. HYIPs are last thing that bitcoin needs. They are all the same, 1% or 7.

[chungenhung]

and now HK is in default....

[memvola]

and now HK is in default....

More like insolvent.

[bitcoinBull]

and now HK is in default....

More like insolvent.

[chungenhung]

and now HK is in default....

More like insolvent.

if he can't pay his bills on time, then to me he is in default.

[bitlane]

The package is just being opened.  Anyone claiming to know "the truth" is defending a position in which they have a vested interest.

I'm glad to see more people taking a rational approach and not fabricating nonsense.  It's not as if everything will remain secret forever and there aren't any points for guessing right at this time.

There are only 2 positions that an invested person, SUCH AS YOURSELF, can be part of:

1) Coward, in fear of losing it 'all'....showing your constant public support for Trendon, so that YOU are paid out in the end based on accumulated brownie points.

2) Insider, with knowledge of what is actually happening, hence no reason for you to panic like the rest of the investors....acting smug and laughing at all of us, this entire time.

There is NO OPTION 3.... The 'Level Headed, Faith-having, Trusting option that has no fear'.

Pick a side.

[blazing]

The package is just being opened.  Anyone claiming to know "the truth" is defending a position in which they have a vested interest.

I'm glad to see more people taking a rational approach and not fabricating nonsense.  It's not as if everything will remain secret forever and there aren't any points for guessing right at this time.

There are only 2 positions that an invested person, SUCH AS YOURSELF, can be part of:

1) Coward, in fear of losing it 'all'....showing your constant public support for Trendon, so that YOU are paid out in the end based on accumulated brownie points.

2) Insider, with knowledge of what is actually happening, hence no reason for you to panic like the rest of the investors....acting smug and laughing at all of us, this entire time.

There is NO OPTION 3.... The 'Level Headed, Faith-having, Trusting option that has no fear'.

Pick a side.

One other option. Turning off the computer, going outside and enjoying what you have left...

[bitlane]

I don't have to.  I have lent to pirate, and my balance is much higher than yours, but it's not enough for me to stress about.  I have a life and family.  I have a busy professional life.  Bitcoin is a hobby, as is this forum and IRC.

I've made decisions that have resulted in my "losing" or at least "losing out" on much more than I have with pirate.  It's part of keeping one's eyes open for opportunities.  This "investment" was more passive than usual, so I feel less bad about losing it, if that were to happen.

You're wound up over what, a Honda Accord?  A nice trip to Paris for a couple weeks?  I hate to tell you this, but much worse shit will happen to you in your life.  Being crazy on a forum is not going to help you _at all_.  If you're planning legal action, good, at least you're doing _something_ other than attacking people who have nothing to do with your choices.

So, to you, this is simply a 'Lesson' to add to your grand life's collection of insight ?

Do you intend to let him get away with this ? Judging by your comments, I think that you are in fact feeling bad for him and will allow him to simply walk away from this, as you must be thinking 'big picture' where he must also be a victim, correct ?

[reeses]

I don't have to.  I have lent to pirate, and my balance is much higher than yours, but it's not enough for me to stress about.  I have a life and family.  I have a busy professional life.  Bitcoin is a hobby, as is this forum and IRC.

I've made decisions that have resulted in my "losing" or at least "losing out" on much more than I have with pirate.  It's part of keeping one's eyes open for opportunities.  This "investment" was more passive than usual, so I feel less bad about losing it, if that were to happen.

You're wound up over what, a Honda Accord?  A nice trip to Paris for a couple weeks?  I hate to tell you this, but much worse shit will happen to you in your life.  Being crazy on a forum is not going to help you _at all_.  If you're planning legal action, good, at least you're doing _something_ other than attacking people who have nothing to do with your choices.

So, to you, this is simply a 'Lesson' to add to your grand life's collection of insight ?

Do you intend to let him get away with this ? Judging by your comments, I think that you are in fact feeling bad for him and will allow him to simply walk away from this, as you must be thinking 'big picture' where he must also be a victim, correct ?

a) Yes, this whole experience will be added to the lessons I've learned while being dragged through life. (Which doesn't last forever.)  We'll see what the lesson will be as this story unfolds.

b) He's not getting away with anything yet.  I've waited longer for invoices from clients and they've paid.  I know he's not having a good time and I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.  I imagine he's avoiding the computer right now because it's a source of pure negative energy.  I hope he is able to formulate a plan to get things sorted out.  I would appreciate hearing from him about this, but given that he's missed a few dates by a fair margin, the silver lining is that I'm not waiting for him to say something on date x.

c) I don't know if he's a victim or not.  Given the few conversations I've had with him about his business¹, I could see how he could be a victim or a person who overextended himself and made poor decisions.  Again, he has the opportunity to sort things out.  I think we can all agree that he has a big enough ego that he won't be able to disappear forever. :-)

d) I do feel bad for him regarding the threats against his person.  I would not want to be in his position with talk of molotov cocktails and who knows what in private messages.  My wife and I went through a scare with MS13 that shook us up for a while, and we don't have kids to protect.  It must be much more concerning to have credible threats in that situation.

That said, it's early, and I try not to project or speculate too much on what people are thinking or planning.

1. The conversation involved a discussion of a lower-cost source of btc that happened to be in my general area, but I did not have details about pricing, identity, or anything else.

[bitlane]

Fine.
I will say it, but never mention it again...and most likely DELETE this comment...LOL

It is extremely difficult to fight with someone as level headed as you reeses. You take all of the fun out of it and you are in fact a much better person than I am. You have no idea how difficult it is to be defeated by kind words, so in closing, I would feel a whole lot better if you could atleast ONCE just tell me to FUCK OFF

bitlane.

[reeses]

bitlane.

(quote trimmed for plausible deniability)

I pray each night that god will move me into a parallel universe where your father drove right by your mother and didn't stop for a two-dollar fuck-and-suck special.

Since the probability of that is 1 and 0, the best I can do is offer to shove a ball of barbed wire up your gaping fart-talker while you give a rusty trombone to the orangutan that gave us HIV.

[bitlane]

THAT...was awesome

[zyk]

The package is just being opened.  Anyone claiming to know "the truth" is defending a position in which they have a vested interest.

I'm glad to see more people taking a rational approach and not fabricating nonsense.  It's not as if everything will remain secret forever and there aren't any points for guessing right at this time.

There are only 2 positions that an invested person, SUCH AS YOURSELF, can be part of:

1) Coward, in fear of losing it 'all'....showing your constant public support for Trendon, so that YOU are paid out in the end based on accumulated brownie points.

2) Insider, with knowledge of what is actually happening, hence no reason for you to panic like the rest of the investors....acting smug and laughing at all of us, this entire time.

There is NO OPTION 3.... The 'Level Headed, Faith-having, Trusting option that has no fear'.

Pick a side.

Zyk happily announces that he has choosen the heretofore non - existant option number 3 !

Watch my ignorants counter and lets see, if we can be lucky enough to make even bitlane acknowledging, that there are still some worthwhile inventions

to be added to bitcoinworld

Cheers Zyk

[chungenhung]

updated.

[imsaguy]

4. imsaguy. Supposedly invests in mining hardware. But somehow, he got caught in the pirate mess too. Also, both imsaguy and HashKing said they need 3 years to pay back. Coincidence or planned?

To be determined:
1. Kluge. I was in a skype chat room with all the above guys. Started to ask imsaguy question about what is his REAL plan to repay investors. In the end, I got kicked out by Kluge.
This doesn't mean Kluge is a scam, but that is enough reason to believe Kluge is planning with the above guys.

I was trying to explain it to you.  The 3 year plan was if I liquidated the mining gear now.  The gear is clearly worth more if it continues to mine.  I suspended dividends so that they could be used to expand the hardware and keep EIEIO profitable.  Its essentially a short term haircut which should keep the dividends going longer.  You couldn't shutup long enough to actually grasp that concept.  I ask you questions about what I had stated in my posting and you couldn't answer them, even though you claimed to have read it.   I think you skimmed it, saw only a few key words and then started to spew your mouth without have a clear grasp of what was going on.  kluge removed you  because you were being obstinate and completely unreasonable.

[Frankie]

1. Nckrazze. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=81927.0
He stated the deposits are NOT placed in BTCST funds. But due to BTCST default, now he is UNABLE to pay back.
If the funds are not placed in BTCST, then what does BTCST default have anything to do with his ability to pay back?

This is easy: he could have been running his own Ponzi scheme, and when Pirate defaulted, everyone tried to exit all the HYIP shit on this forum, causing his scheme to fail as well.

OR: he could have been running a legitimate business that needs some time to unwind due to the liquidity crisis Pirate's default caused. imsaguy suggests this is the case with him. Although, honestly, I think it's safe to assume anyone purporting to pay 100%+ annual interest is some sort of scammer, whether on their own or via Pirate.

I would not be surprised if some of these funds falsely claim to have invested in Pirate so they can pose as Pirate victims rather than pure scammers. Surely it takes heat of you to pass the buck to a mythological Pirate account.

[Kluge]

To be determined:
1. Kluge. I was in a skype chat room with all the above guys. Started to ask imsaguy question about what is his REAL plan to repay investors. In the end, I got kicked out by Kluge.
This doesn't mean Kluge is a scam, but that is enough reason to believe Kluge is planning with the above guys.

I can confirm the kicking as true. I did it a few minutes after waking up and looking at my screen.

[8:57:18 AM] Ben Malec: Fuck, guys. We have work to do. I don't have time, anymore, to scroll through a page of bickering to find information. Both of you get timeout until I have the time to remember you.
[8:57:28 AM] *** Ben Malec removed [chungenhung] from this conversation. ***

My ISP only allots me 350MB/day. I only have 24 hours a day to live. I only have a very limited amount of patience right now. I'm trying to actually find updates in the room, and it's just line after line after line of antagonistic bullshit (toward at least two others on top of Nick). I don't mind irrelevant crap when someone's blowing off steam, but trying to dump drama on top of an already-stressful situation - damn!

Anyway -- yes, as I've already stated publicly, I'm working with Nick to get a solution hammered out. Probably, we'll lock a new loan in USD at a rate more appropriate for the currency, and then he'll use the USD to buy BTC to pay as necessary. That's not in stone, though.

[MPOE-PR]

Kluge: You, personally, are an idiot. Thinking oh herp derp, I r bankr nao --that's idiocy. Going around now acting like you're some sort of noteworthy character doing things, wheeling and dealing and so forth is risible. You are simply an idiot that helped a bunch of lambs to the slaughter.

Oh, Mr. Citizen Banker-Dentist thinks being called an idiot in a public forum for having been an idiot is unfair and unwarranted? Bully for you. Oh, your mommy always told you you're great and you fart runny rose water? Bully for her. Nobody else cares. What you are is a guy that helped a bunch of lambs to the slaughter.

So drop the pretense, get on your hands and knees and face the music. Oh, he can't take the "pure negativity". Why did you associate with a ponzi if you knew you couldn't take the negativity? Why did you pretend yourself a banker when you're nothing of the sort? What do you think happens to people that play pretend?

Go ahead, whine about how openness is a bad thing because idiots get to be called out and "it's just unfair". So very impressive. And when you're done with that, we can laugh at you over the kronos fiasco, too. 

Un-fucking-believable, the nerve of you idiots. "Limited amount of patience", the gall.

[tiberiandusk]

Add Nessie to the list. http://nessieneedstrefity.tumblr.com/

[peasant]

bitlane.

(quote trimmed for plausible deniability)

I pray each night that god will move me into a parallel universe where your father drove right by your mother and didn't stop for a two-dollar fuck-and-suck special.

Since the probability of that is 1 and 0, the best I can do is offer to shove a ball of barbed wire up your gaping fart-talker while you give a rusty trombone to the orangutan that gave us HIV.

 

[chungenhung]

To be determined:
1. Kluge. I was in a skype chat room with all the above guys. Started to ask imsaguy question about what is his REAL plan to repay investors. In the end, I got kicked out by Kluge.
This doesn't mean Kluge is a scam, but that is enough reason to believe Kluge is planning with the above guys.

I can confirm the kicking as true. I did it a few minutes after waking up and looking at my screen.

[8:57:18 AM] Ben Malec: Fuck, guys. We have work to do. I don't have time, anymore, to scroll through a page of bickering to find information. Both of you get timeout until I have the time to remember you.
[8:57:28 AM] *** Ben Malec removed [chungenhung] from this conversation. ***

My ISP only allots me 350MB/day. I only have 24 hours a day to live. I only have a very limited amount of patience right now. I'm trying to actually find updates in the room, and it's just line after line after line of antagonistic bullshit (toward at least two others on top of Nick). I don't mind irrelevant crap when someone's blowing off steam, but trying to dump drama on top of an already-stressful situation - damn!

Anyway -- yes, as I've already stated publicly, I'm working with Nick to get a solution hammered out. Probably, we'll lock a new loan in USD at a rate more appropriate for the currency, and then he'll use the USD to buy BTC to pay as necessary. That's not in stone, though.

Good to know. One thing puzzles me is that the chat room have had a lot of useless chatter prior to my rant, but that doesn't seem to bother you?
Maybe my rant that night was a LOT more than the usual useless chatter.

[chungenhung]

4. imsaguy. Supposedly invests in mining hardware. But somehow, he got caught in the pirate mess too. Also, both imsaguy and HashKing said they need 3 years to pay back. Coincidence or planned?

To be determined:
1. Kluge. I was in a skype chat room with all the above guys. Started to ask imsaguy question about what is his REAL plan to repay investors. In the end, I got kicked out by Kluge.
This doesn't mean Kluge is a scam, but that is enough reason to believe Kluge is planning with the above guys.

I was trying to explain it to you.  The 3 year plan was if I liquidated the mining gear now.  The gear is clearly worth more if it continues to mine.  I suspended dividends so that they could be used to expand the hardware and keep EIEIO profitable.  Its essentially a short term haircut which should keep the dividends going longer.  You couldn't shutup long enough to actually grasp that concept.  I ask you questions about what I had stated in my posting and you couldn't answer them, even though you claimed to have read it.   I think you skimmed it, saw only a few key words and then started to spew your mouth without have a clear grasp of what was going on.  kluge removed you  because you were being obstinate and completely unreasonable.

Could you explain why both you and hashking decided to stop paying at around the same time?
I understand the concept towards the end of our chat. But bottom line is....., the end result is the same. You are not paying dividends and no principal gets returned. At least at this moment.

[imsaguy]

4. imsaguy. Supposedly invests in mining hardware. But somehow, he got caught in the pirate mess too. Also, both imsaguy and HashKing said they need 3 years to pay back. Coincidence or planned?

To be determined:
1. Kluge. I was in a skype chat room with all the above guys. Started to ask imsaguy question about what is his REAL plan to repay investors. In the end, I got kicked out by Kluge.
This doesn't mean Kluge is a scam, but that is enough reason to believe Kluge is planning with the above guys.

I was trying to explain it to you.  The 3 year plan was if I liquidated the mining gear now.  The gear is clearly worth more if it continues to mine.  I suspended dividends so that they could be used to expand the hardware and keep EIEIO profitable.  Its essentially a short term haircut which should keep the dividends going longer.  You couldn't shutup long enough to actually grasp that concept.  I ask you questions about what I had stated in my posting and you couldn't answer them, even though you claimed to have read it.   I think you skimmed it, saw only a few key words and then started to spew your mouth without have a clear grasp of what was going on.  kluge removed you  because you were being obstinate and completely unreasonable.

Could you explain why both you and hashking decided to stop paying at around the same time?
I understand the concept towards the end of our chat. But bottom line is....., the end result is the same. You are not paying dividends and no principal gets returned. At least at this moment.

I already explained that I could continue to pay dividends for the next 2 months and all it would have done is drained further capital from EIEIO and as difficulty continued to go up, there'd be less and less income.  What HashKing does or does not due has no bearing on me.  I have no btc invested in him and he had none with me.

[chungenhung]

Good to know. One thing puzzles me is that the chat room have had a lot of useless chatter prior to my rant, but that doesn't seem to bother you?
Maybe my rant that night was a LOT more than the usual useless chatter.

Dude, you were nuts.  You would not read.  I know you're not a native english reader/writer/speaker, but you did not give people a chance to explain.  You just typed over them when they were trying to explain the situation to you.  Maybe that's a cultural thing, but people kept telling you to settle down and read what they were writing.

It's not necessarily the questioning or explaining that pisses people off (generally, if that's the case, it's their issue).  It's the incessant unwillingness to partner in coming to some sort of understanding of the situation.

Talking to you that night was like talking to a wall of puke-flavored taffy with broken glass sticking out of it.  You explicitly stated that starting a shitstorm for imsaguy and others would solve your problems.  You would not listen to any plans or options that anyone was proposing.

I know you went in too deep and feel burned (which is why I helped you find buyers for your BST debt upon Pirate's default) but stop freaking out on everyone.  You just make it not worth the effort to deal with you.

I don't know which one is you on the skype room.
You help me find buyers for BST debt? I thought that somebody found me, b/c I was posting it on the chat room.
No one ever tried to explain to me why GUARANTEED and INSURED funds cannot be paid out.
The plan that you guys have is probably just to take off like pirate did. No plan would be acceptable, except the ORIGINAL plan.
Let me repeat that... the ORIGINAL plan was, the funds are INSURED and GUARANTEED.

[chungenhung]

Correct reeses. My share of BTC is VERY small compared to you guys, 30k, 50k, 100k, 500k. But the amount I have with imsaguy isn't a "small amount". If you think over 1000BTC is a small amount, why don't you just buy my debt off and I'll shut up, and at the same time, I'll praise you as lord.
I was forced to invest in imsaguy. The BTC I have with imsaguy is a result of my deposit with INAU's INSURED PPT. Since INAU couldn't pay, I settled with INAU to have him transfer his imsaguy's invesstment to me. By doing that, I was hoping that imsaguy would pay up later on, since he's running a hardware mining biz.
As it turns out, I got shit on again.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for working things out or ironing out a payback plan. But, nobody was discussing any solid plans.
IMO, if anyone were to pay anything out, imsaguy could have easily paid at least 1BTC to investors from his mining operation from today. He's got over 20GH, I am sure it generates more than 1BTC a day.
Paying 1BTC beats paying 0BTC, at least it shows there is some kind of progress.

[imsaguy]

Paying 1BTC beats paying 0BTC, at least it shows there is some kind of progress.

Done.

[chungenhung]

Paying 1BTC beats paying 0BTC, at least it shows there is some kind of progress.

Done.

Confirmed. Now we are seeing some progress.
Hope you will work out a solid plan for everyone.

[chungenhung]

Since you've been causing more trouble than I feel you should, I feel it is appropriate to reveal some facts.

So far, these deposit takers are NOT affected by BTCST default. Perhaps these are the REAL INSURED and GUARANTEED.
1. Myself. At one point, I have over 4000BTC deposits with me. When word came out that BTCST is ceasing operations, I had no problem returning ALL funds to my depositors that were made prior to BTCST annoucement.

This is disingenuous to the point of dishonesty.

When pirate announced his default, you had to sell your debt (at a discount) to gather the funds to pay people.  You also bought coins.  You were not "REAL INSURED" nor did you have "no problem".  You were shitting your pants because your problem, as usual, is not knowing what to do.

I won't name the people who effectively bailed you out (yes, with a consideration that they would profit from a future pirate pay out), but that is precisely what they did, and at a rate much, much higher than was offered to anyone else not in the "secret Skype chat".  Without their intervention, you would have defaulted as well.

Do not hold this up as an example of how you are in a better position than others to manage investments in a secure fashion.  You were lucky and people took pity on you because you were so emotionally out of control.  You cannot count on fairy godmothers to save you every time you make a mistake, so your deposits were not "GUARANTEED".

The weasel phrasing of "perhaps" does not protect you, either.  We all now know you were not REAL INSURED or GUARANTEED.  You and your depositors were lucky to have other people willing to give you BTC without a prior arrangement.

1. I didn't "had to sell" my debt. I sold it b/c I'd like to be somewhat protected. If I had to, why did I only sell a small portion of it when a lot more was offered?
2. Don't remember me buying coins. If I did, it was for trading.
3. Nobody bailed me out. I have enough funds to return. A lot of my earlier depositors got their BTC right when pirate defaulted.
4. I was not "REAL INSURED". I never mentioned INSURED or GUARANTEED in my deposit post, as I know A LOT OF things can go wrong, such as EVERYBODY running away with coins, P2P BTC network collapses, huge attack on major deposit holders, etc. When people asked me, I say I try my best to diversify, and would make sure I don't have direct pirate exposure with people's BTC. But as it turns out, most of my "diversified" portfolio were operated by pirate pass thru people, who claimed the funds have nothing to do with pirate. With INAU, I thought it is insured, with Hashking, I thought it is insured. With Imsaguy, I thought he put the money in hardware mining, in Nckrazze, I thought he is in mining.
Still waiting on some other people that supposedly don't have pirate exposure. I am hoping that the remaining ones really don't have pirate exposure and lost the BTC already.

[imsaguy]

With Imsaguy, I thought he put the money in hardware mining

Those GPUs didn't show up on their own.

[chungenhung]

With Imsaguy, I thought he put the money in hardware mining

Those GPUs didn't show up on their own.

Let me rephrase.
imsaguy maybe/did put money in hardware mining, but he decides not to pay anyone back, at least not in the short term.

[chungenhung]

So far, these deposit takers are NOT affected by BTCST default. Perhaps these are the REAL INSURED and GUARANTEED.
1. Myself. At one point, I have over 4000BTC deposits with me. When word came out that BTCST is ceasing operations, I had no problem returning ALL funds to my depositors that were made prior to BTCST annoucement.

We all now know you were not REAL INSURED or GUARANTEED.

4. I was not "REAL INSURED". I never mentioned INSURED or GUARANTEED in my deposit post

So we agree that you were lying, or at least intentionally misleading people into inferring something other than the truth, when you stated that perhaps you were "the REAL INSURED and GUARANTEED."

Anyway, I am glad to have that sorted.

1. I never mentioned INSURED or GUARANTEED in my "deposit post". Why? Again, b/c so much shit could go wrong in real life.
2. Note, I say PERHAPS. That was posted on 08/30 and things have changed quite a bit since then.
  Now I am still waiting on 5 "INSURED" and/or "GUARENTEED" to pay me back. There is no way I could have known that those "INSURED" and/or "GUARANTEED" were all fake.
Think of it this way. You've got $100k in bank that is FDIC insured. The bank tells you the deposit is insured. But, what if FDIC decides not to pay out? Or if FDIC decides to pay you back in devalued currency?
The bank have no way of knowing what the party providing the insurance would do in the future.

[Fjordbit]

It appears that Patrick Harnett is facing a liquidity issue as well, although it doesn't look like he's defaulted yet.

[chungenhung]

I did note you said "perhaps".  But wouldn't you be in a position to know yes or no if you "insured" or "guaranteed" your own liabilities?

No I wouldn't know, b/c anything can happen, and they eventually will happen. What if the world ends tomorrow? There's no guarantee in this world.

[Bitcoin Oz]

In my book all the PPT operators are in a  criminal conspiracy and it doesn't matter how much they try and offload responsibility. According to the law you are equally guilty whether you knew it was a crime or not.

Next time when someone is offering unrealistic rates of return please resist the urge to funnel money into their scheme and you wont have an obviously guilty conscience.

[chungenhung]

Correct reeses. My share of BTC is VERY small compared to you guys, 30k, 50k, 100k, 500k. But the amount I have with imsaguy isn't a "small amount". If you think over 1000BTC is a small amount, why don't you just buy my debt off and I'll shut up, and at the same time, I'll praise you as lord.

PM me with what you will take for your "over 1000BTC".  You don't have to praise me as lord.

Great. I have 1055.4btc with imsaguy. That is without counting the dividends since start of September.
Since you trust imsaguy so much, please buy the investment from me. Your bonus would be the extra weekly dividends that he kept missing on paying out.

[chungenhung]

Correct reeses. My share of BTC is VERY small compared to you guys, 30k, 50k, 100k, 500k. But the amount I have with imsaguy isn't a "small amount". If you think over 1000BTC is a small amount, why don't you just buy my debt off and I'll shut up, and at the same time, I'll praise you as lord.

PM me with what you will take for your "over 1000BTC".  You don't have to praise me as lord.

Great. I have 1055.4btc with imsaguy. That is without counting the dividends since start of September.
Since you trust imsaguy so much, please buy the investment from me. Your bonus would be the extra weekly dividends that he kept missing on paying out.

PM me with what you will take for your "over 1000BTC".

Reading comprehension has always been your problem.  We are negotiating the value of a distressed asset.  You have something worth 1kbtc on "paper".  The NPV of this, if paid over three years, is much lower, especially given the rate of return on other investments that would be available when liquidating this one.  To you, the value is 0, 250, or 1055.4.

PM and we can discuss what your reasons are for giving it whichever value.

It is an distressed asset in my book, but apparently not in yours.
You've been defending Hashking and imsaguy from the beginning.
Since you trust imsaguy so much, the NPV value of this is MUCH higher. Think about it, you get 1000BTC plus additional dividends that imsaguy missed. Where in the real world would you get over 2% return per year on a savings account?

[chungenhung]

In my book all the PPT operators are in a  criminal conspiracy and it doesn't matter how much they try and offload responsibility. According to the law you are equally guilty whether you knew it was a crime or not.

Next time when someone is offering unrealistic rates of return please resist the urge to funnel money into their scheme and you wont have an obviously guilty conscience.

You don't know the law.

NOBODY knows the law......

[MrTeal]

In my book all the PPT operators are in a  criminal conspiracy and it doesn't matter how much they try and offload responsibility. According to the law you are equally guilty whether you knew it was a crime or not.

Next time when someone is offering unrealistic rates of return please resist the urge to funnel money into their scheme and you wont have an obviously guilty conscience.

You don't know the law.

NOBODY knows the law......

Stallone does.

[mining4fun11]

Chungenhung should be added to this list according to the scam accusations thread.  It looks like he stopped paying. 

[chungenhung]

Chungenhung should be added to this list according to the scam accusations thread.  It looks like he stopped paying. 

I paid those people, and they decided to start a thread accusing anyways.

[zebedee]

Chungenhung should be added to this list according to the scam accusations thread.  It looks like he stopped paying. 

I paid those people, and they decided to start a thread accusing anyways.

You have not paid us back, which is why the thread is there.