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Question: Gavin Bell (Andresen) is a USG muppet
yes - 64 (45.4%)
no - 77 (54.6%)
Total Voters: 141

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Author Topic: Gavin is an Agent  (Read 9713 times)
JorgeStolfi
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July 01, 2015, 05:11:56 AM
 #141

If the tribesmen come to the defense of someone who has been robbed
of his belongings, that does not mean some kind of primitive police
or government but simply the collective acknowledgement of intrinsic
right to primitive property.

What difference do you see between the Sámi tribesmen enforcing his property rights, or the Finnish courts?  Just because the Finnish "tribesmen" pay someone to do that task for them?

In both cases, property rights exist because there is a third party that decides who (by their rules) is the proprietor, and has the power to ensure that he gets possession of the thing, by taking it away from anyone who has possession of it but (in their view) is not the proprietor.

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My view is simply that notion of property predates legal formulations
upheld by government, whereas  you appeared to claim that it is created by them
and would not exist without them.

Yes, I do claim that "property" requires an authority that can enforce it. 

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I would really like to see a smart contract work without backing of police, laws, and courts.  (Note that contracts are like fire extinguishers: they are useful only when things fail to happen the way they were supposed to happen.)
Crowdfunding is an example that comes to mind - you transfer an amount
of value to a recipient, and the contract stipulates that if you don't get something
by some date, you'll get your amount back just as everyone else who contributed.
Such a contract is easily implemented algorithmically with just a few lines of code,
and everyone can instantly see that it works.
Erm, I don't see how that works, sorry.  The recipient is supposed to spend that money while creating the something.  At the end of the allotted period he has spent it all, but there is no something, or it is only half finished, or it does not work.  What then?

Unless you mean a crowdfunded sale of something that already exists and is ready?  Even so, who is going to decide whether the something was delivered and meets the terms of the contract?

Academic interest in bitcoin only. Not owner, not trader, very skeptical of its longterm success.
YarkoL
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July 01, 2015, 06:49:40 AM
 #142


What difference do you see between the Sámi tribesmen enforcing his property rights, or the Finnish courts?  Just because the Finnish "tribesmen" pay someone to do that task for them?

In both cases, property rights exist because there is a third party that decides who (by their rules) is the proprietor, and has the power to ensure that he gets possession of the thing, by taking it away from anyone who has possession of it but (in their view) is not the proprietor.

Both cases are examples of social control, but in the case courts the control
has become more complex and formalized procedure whereas in the case of
tribesmen it is more like an family affair. I would say that both instances originally
serve to protect the sacredness of ownership (see, I'm deliberately avoiding the
word "property") but as society becomes more complex, there may arise the illusion
that government, instead of being in charge of maintaining self-evident rights is
in fact the creator of them. And then it follows, as you point out, "property" is totally
arbitary and subject to whims of the powers that be.

I find such a situation to be a distressing and hope that we might be able to
take out human rights out of the domain of violence and instead uphold them by
voluntary associations that are governed by algorithmic consensus. So here I grant you
another semantic concession and merely propose that the government that is responsible
of upholding property rights be replaced by peer-to-peer networks or similar.

Regarding the crowdfunding example, after inspecting the code I realize that it
is not a very satisfactory example, as it still requires external non-algorithmic input to
resolve whether the terms of the contract have been fulfilled. But a progress is still
being made towards the goal of realizing autonomous smart contracts.
 

“God does not play dice"
RodeoX
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July 01, 2015, 03:27:23 PM
 #143

OMG, I just realized how serious this is. Did you guys know that Agent Gavin has a copy OF EVERY SINGLE BITCOIN Tx you have ever made!  Shocked

shit, i felt terrible, Gavin is an agent!

Oh crap, it's worse than I thought. I ALSO HAVE A COPY ON MY COMPUTER!!!! WTF???
I must be some kind of "Manchurian candidate".

It's wurst than that! I'm your sausage-running, mate.

how the heck you got another copy? decipher it, it might contain s0me secret message from Gavin the Agent

"sausage running mate" is the phrase that activates my assassination mode! Must find Ben Bernanke.  Angry Must find Ben!!
Whoa, snap out of it! Gavin has taken control of my mind. And I just found MY RECEIVING ADDRESS in Gavin's blockchain. MY ADDRESS!!!! Who does he think he is?

The gospel according to Satoshi - https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
Free bitcoin in ? - Stay tuned for this years Bitcoin hunt!
ebruwifxnx
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July 01, 2015, 03:33:07 PM
 #144

This is what happens when you have something a bunch of conspiracy theorists and nutjobs jump on to. I love bitcoin but could do without these people.
QuestionAuthority
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July 01, 2015, 03:55:15 PM
 #145

This is what happens when you have something a bunch of conspiracy theorists and nutjobs jump on to. I love bitcoin but could do without these people.

Good luck! Those people are Bitcoin.

jorjito25
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July 02, 2015, 12:00:50 AM
 #146

This is what happens when you have something a bunch of conspiracy theorists and nutjobs jump on to. I love bitcoin but could do without these people.

Good luck! Those people are Bitcoin.

It took time for me to realize that this is as true as can be. I really feel sorry for those who put in all the hours for bitcoin for little or no income (not including Gavin et. al here).
Possum577
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July 02, 2015, 05:22:48 AM
 #147

facts:

3/ Forking BS over and over again. now just before the Halving. hOw friggin convenient.
          https://github.com/gavinandresen/bitcoin-git/commit/5f46da29fd02fd2a8a787286fd6a56f680073770


Why does the timing of the halving have an implication over the timing of the forking? The two aren't really related are they?

Maybe Gavin is Neo and all the articles are the fog of the matrix...

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