**IMPORTANT**URGENT** Support needed to defend the stance of bitcoin in India

[vennali]

Sorry if this is late, good luck with your meeting tomorrow. Apart from what Skang wonderfully summarizes, and since I am not much familiar with the laws, what I would suggest is doing searches on the legality of bitcoin in other countries, and use the same arguments for here.

Couple of articles and discussions:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_bitcoin_by_country#India

Might also be a good idea to hand out this in the meeting :
http://www.coindesk.com/information/is-bitcoin-legal/

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R43339.pdf

[Amitabh S]

Instead of going yourself, you should send a representative.. and ask them to deal with your legal/KYC team.

These guys (the "authority") may know a bit about bitcoin but do they know anything about the law?
Without a warrant, you should not give even a single byte of customer details to anyone.

EDIT: From what I understand they are looking to make a quick buck.

[shahadil]

1.There was an incident that we needed to address. As we were fully KYC and AML complaint, and were able to answer the questions asked, this do not look like it would stretch anymore.

2.The only BIG question we could not convince yet is, regulation about bitcoin. The officer is bothered about bitcoins coming to India bypassing the regulated route and those bitcoins actually being exchanged for INR in India using the service like unocoin.

I hope your meeting went well today as well. A few concerns of mine

1. An incident? So is it that they are wanting transaction details from you about your customers?

2. As i was to understand moving money (INR) out of the country was the thing that was not allowed. How are they suddenly concerned about money (Bitcoin) coming into the country. There are various ways money flows into the country. Western Union, banking channels, etc. and it was relatively easy to move money here compared to moving it out. What is this fear with fund inflow?

[cyphos]

if I remember correctly- Nisihth Desai & Associates are your lawyers. Don't understand, why you being a VENTURE CAPITAL FUNDED BUSINESS
are "requesting for help", when Nishith Desai & Associates have already taken out the white paper & concluded
BTC are not illegal in India

are we all being taken for a ride by Unocoin?? are we all missing something??

if it is not illegal, tell them clearly "BITCOIN IS NOT ILLEGAL" and if it is illegal by any means- just go and get arrested. It is that simple.

what are you afraid of..........?

Regards,

[cyphos]

or have Nishith Desai Associates gave up on you? and we all are screwed for sending our pan cards, voter ids to unocoin.com??
please let us know, when is the right time to run?? i don't want to be in jail.....

Regards,

[vennali]

or have Nishith Desai Associates gave up on you? and we all are screwed for sending our pan cards, voter ids to unocoin.com??
please let us know, when is the right time to run?? i don't want to be in jail.....

Regards,

I am sure that won't happen in anycase. And neither would anyone from the company. If it was illegal they would already have them arrested. And since its not illegal right now, no one is going to get into any trouble.

@dashingriddler Any updates from today ?

[cyphos]

please somebody from unocoin.com tell us, are we going to jail?? this whole bitcoin thing is scary as hell.

Regards,

[skang]

please somebody from unocoin.com tell us, are we going to jail?? this whole bitcoin thing is scary as hell.

Regards,

Irrespective of whatever happened, did you do anything illegal? If not, then why worry? Have faith in our system?

[dashingriddler]

1. Yes a set of transactions belonging to a particular customer. This has been addressed for now.

2. Moving money out of the country is regulated. Also same with getting money into the country. All channels you mentioned are regulated. The issue we are trying to address is, how can an external official figure out from where the bitcoins (funds) coming from without really questioning the person who got the bitcoins. they can do this with all regulated channels but not with bitcoins. an interesting question though and we have explained the tech behind bitcoin to have them know how bitcoin works and why this is not easily possible with bitcoin.

1.There was an incident that we needed to address. As we were fully KYC and AML complaint, and were able to answer the questions asked, this do not look like it would stretch anymore.

2.The only BIG question we could not convince yet is, regulation about bitcoin. The officer is bothered about bitcoins coming to India bypassing the regulated route and those bitcoins actually being exchanged for INR in India using the service like unocoin.

I hope your meeting went well today as well. A few concerns of mine

1. An incident? So is it that they are wanting transaction details from you about your customers?

2. As i was to understand moving money (INR) out of the country was the thing that was not allowed. How are they suddenly concerned about money (Bitcoin) coming into the country. There are various ways money flows into the country. Western Union, banking channels, etc. and it was relatively easy to move money here compared to moving it out. What is this fear with fund inflow?

[dashingriddler]

Instead of going yourself, you should send a representative.. and ask them to deal with your legal/KYC team.

These guys (the "authority") may know a bit about bitcoin but do they know anything about the law?
Without a warrant, you should not give even a single byte of customer details to anyone.

EDIT: From what I understand they are looking to make a quick buck.

They know about bitcoin and no customer details are given.

[dashingriddler]

if I remember correctly- Nisihth Desai & Associates are your lawyers. Don't understand, why you being a VENTURE CAPITAL FUNDED BUSINESS
are "requesting for help", when Nishith Desai & Associates have already taken out the white paper & concluded
BTC are not illegal in India

are we all being taken for a ride by Unocoin?? are we all missing something??

if it is not illegal, tell them clearly "BITCOIN IS NOT ILLEGAL" and if it is illegal by any means- just go and get arrested. It is that simple.

what are you afraid of..........?

Regards,

Yes NDA are our lawyers - we have not engaged them in this matter.
I am requesting for help from the bitcoin community for which i am a part of. I am keeping this thread posted, just to let the bitcoin community in india know what kind of questions exist in the minds of officers who may be contributing to regulating of bitcoin in india if it ever happens.

Bitcoin is legal or illegal is not the basic question. it is about on what basis we are self regulating it.

I never said i am afraid of something. thanks for heating up the conversation though 

[dashingriddler]

or have Nishith Desai Associates gave up on you? and we all are screwed for sending our pan cards, voter ids to unocoin.com??
please let us know, when is the right time to run?? i don't want to be in jail.....

Regards,

NDA continues to be our lawyers - we have not engaged them for this yet.

None of the customer docs have been asked for submission. so do not worry.

i am not sure why you are talking about going to jail if you have not done anything wrong.

[dashingriddler]

or have Nishith Desai Associates gave up on you? and we all are screwed for sending our pan cards, voter ids to unocoin.com??
please let us know, when is the right time to run?? i don't want to be in jail.....

Regards,

I am sure that won't happen in anycase. And neither would anyone from the company. If it was illegal they would already have them arrested. And since its not illegal right now, no one is going to get into any trouble.

@dashingriddler Any updates from today ?

I agree with what you say.

no much updates from today. was much of waiting. new question now is, how to know who sent bitcoins to an indian resident if that resident is not willing to share the info as bitcoin is unregulated. my explaination is to explain about bitcoin tech and to explain how it is different from regulated channels as of now.

[dashingriddler]

please somebody from unocoin.com tell us, are we going to jail?? this whole bitcoin thing is scary as hell.

Regards,

Irrespective of whatever happened, did you do anything illegal? If not, then why worry? Have faith in our system?

No, unocoin has not done anything illegal. so not worried.

[dashingriddler]

please somebody from unocoin.com tell us, are we going to jail?? this whole bitcoin thing is scary as hell.

Regards,

No you are not - i myself did not know you are a customer of Unocoin till now.

bitcoin being a disruptive technology comes with a package of its own advantages and disadvantages. if you are scared of disadvantages, then probably you should not be a part of it.

nothing can be as scary as bitcoin if you do something illegal with it - you can take my words for granted !

[vennali]

or have Nishith Desai Associates gave up on you? and we all are screwed for sending our pan cards, voter ids to unocoin.com??
please let us know, when is the right time to run?? i don't want to be in jail.....

Regards,

I am sure that won't happen in anycase. And neither would anyone from the company. If it was illegal they would already have them arrested. And since its not illegal right now, no one is going to get into any trouble.

@dashingriddler Any updates from today ?

I agree with what you say.

no much updates from today. was much of waiting. new question now is, how to know who sent bitcoins to an indian resident if that resident is not willing to share the info as bitcoin is unregulated. my explaination is to explain about bitcoin tech and to explain how it is different from regulated channels as of now.

Well isn't it the same case just as cash ? Obviously, bitcoin is not something much different in terms of sending. You can first say that even cash can be given to a person on the street, and it would be very hard to know where that money came from, with bitcoin its the same, but can somewhat be tracked, because of the blockchain.

You can also use this point as a plus for Unocoin by saying,  that existence of services like UnoCoin or any other exchange, is the only way those people can usually convert their bitcoin to cash, and because of services like these, is how they can regulate it somewhat. Else, there is no other way to know if a person has bitcoins, unless you are going through his PC.

[cyphos]

if I remember correctly- Nisihth Desai & Associates are your lawyers. Don't understand, why you being a VENTURE CAPITAL FUNDED BUSINESS
are "requesting for help", when Nishith Desai & Associates have already taken out the white paper & concluded
BTC are not illegal in India

are we all being taken for a ride by Unocoin?? are we all missing something??

if it is not illegal, tell them clearly "BITCOIN IS NOT ILLEGAL" and if it is illegal by any means- just go and get arrested. It is that simple.

what are you afraid of..........?

Regards,

Yes NDA are our lawyers - we have not engaged them in this matter.
I am requesting for help from the bitcoin community for which i am a part of. I am keeping this thread posted, just to let the bitcoin community in india know what kind of questions exist in the minds of officers who may be contributing to regulating of bitcoin in india if it ever happens.

Bitcoin is legal or illegal is not the basic question. it is about on what basis we are self regulating it.

you say:Bitcoin is legal or illegal is not the basic question.

If that is not the basic question, WHAT IS?? This rings serious warning bells. First the Nishith Desai Associates comes up with
thick 46 page booklet, telling the world it is not illegal in India and now it is like, anyone can get screwed and land up in jail for Bitcoins in India

Simply put, I don't want to land in jail for just being a customer of unocoin.com.......do unocoin.com provides any legal
protection measures to there customers, because not everybody can afford top lawyers??

Regards,

[cyphos]

would really appreciate, if unocoin.com answers asap as i am really very very anxious      many family member and friends have invested in unocoin.com on my recommendation, and i don't want to face social embarassment. it will be too much for me to take.

[skang]

This is popcorn stuff!

No one is going to jail and no one is protecting you either.

Your argument is "..I bought bitcoins because Unocoin said it was legal, otherwise I would have never bought bitcoins.."
Lol, you went to Unocoin because you wanted them coins.
On the other hand Unocoin is guaranteeing that the coins they sold you were not illegal & that they have proof that all the coins they are selling were bought from verified people, whose identities they can produce if required by law.

[dashingriddler]

I would say it is better than cash. money coming into the country is not same as giving cash to a person on street. jurisdiction and volume matters.

My saying of course included what you are saying. I have mentioned that it is the points like Unocoin where a regulation can be applied.

or have Nishith Desai Associates gave up on you? and we all are screwed for sending our pan cards, voter ids to unocoin.com??
please let us know, when is the right time to run?? i don't want to be in jail.....

Regards,

I am sure that won't happen in anycase. And neither would anyone from the company. If it was illegal they would already have them arrested. And since its not illegal right now, no one is going to get into any trouble.

@dashingriddler Any updates from today ?

I agree with what you say.

no much updates from today. was much of waiting. new question now is, how to know who sent bitcoins to an indian resident if that resident is not willing to share the info as bitcoin is unregulated. my explaination is to explain about bitcoin tech and to explain how it is different from regulated channels as of now.

Well isn't it the same case just as cash ? Obviously, bitcoin is not something much different in terms of sending. You can first say that even cash can be given to a person on the street, and it would be very hard to know where that money came from, with bitcoin its the same, but can somewhat be tracked, because of the blockchain.

You can also use this point as a plus for Unocoin by saying,  that existence of services like UnoCoin or any other exchange, is the only way those people can usually convert their bitcoin to cash, and because of services like these, is how they can regulate it somewhat. Else, there is no other way to know if a person has bitcoins, unless you are going through his PC.