NEW info. Everyone is lying about ther ASIC project

[DeviledMoon]

i just paid for two "warmer" units via paypal and email support for order number. A person named pegi replied saying the order number is the paypal transaction number . Did anyone get this same reply ?

I paid with paypal but received an invoice as well as an order number (four digits). So I highly doubt its the paypal transaction ID, they were probably requesting your transaction ID from paypal so they could bring up your order number.

[ZenInTexas]

I don't think we are talking about real hard core R&D here.  Many years ago, I remember CPLD were hot, then FPGA seemingly replaced them overnight when speed requirements went nuts (>100MHz -  it's funny now).  There are folks who sell canned ASIC IP cores.  And shops that will add custom designs to the cores.  Plus, multi chip FPGA simulator boards have been around for a while, ie simulators for ASIC design testing, if they even cared to do that; they might have skipped that step.  It's not special anymore, and something as well known as SHA, I would imagine takes less design work.  It then becomes more about money, operations & timeframes (ie staying on top of the one stop ASIC design shop & the chosen fab).  It's really about timming, did they submit the order to design & fab early enough. 

Let's say it takes 1 ASIC to match the 2.5GH/s on the $150 product; or maybe 2 or 3 to meet the spec, okay, fine.  Once their chosen fab starts & works out the bugs in the prototypes, they should be able to mass produce the chips cheaply, so even if it takes a few chips, they should be profitable.  Anyway, let's say the current FPGA design equivalent runs at 250MH/s, lets say we expect a 5x increase, so 1.25GH/s, so that would mean they need two chips to meet spec. The ASIC will have a much smaller foot print & pin count, so I don't expect a big PCB compared the the BFL singles, even with 2 chips each $150 ASIC product should be small, and cheap to produce. 

A few years ago, I had some involvement with UWB chipsets development.  The lab prototype was made from discrete components which include mixed signal work, which means huge amounts of custom stuff when you put it in to an ASIC.  And yes, there was an FPGA prototype for "compliance" testing.  The total timeframe was little more than a year.  Well more, if you count the amount of time the standards committee took in delaying things.  I don't think BFL has to worry about standard committees, manufacture interoprabilty, or compliance testing.  That big ugly box turned into one chip and a few discrete components, it really was like magic...one day a prototype ASIC magically appeared in a FedEx box, come to think of it I think it was an Intl FedEx box.

When did BFL start?  I don't know the answer.  It may have that fishy smell, if you haven't experienced this kind of development before.  But FPGA's are an intermediate step to ASICs.  If I gave them the benefit of the doubt, and assume they were thinking about ASICs, but made the FPGA product first, because they could get it to market faster.  Then I would work backwards from when the FPGA's were first advertised as being for sale; so give or take Nov/Dec 2011, back up 2 more months of pre-engineering before marketing the FPGA product, I would say a reasonable start would have been Oct or Nov 2011 was when they could have started thinking about the design of the ASIC...about 1 year ago.  It works out for me.  But on the other hand, this is probably a really small outfit, so even if there are only 2 principles, even fairly recent collage grads behind it, I think it would still be reasonable if they work with a design house; as long as the principles have some experience in the FPGA to ASIC route, things will work out...but I would personally be prepared for some delays...engineers are not strong on operations or customer service.

[king_pin]

BFL has not and does not sell on eBay.  

BFL is not registered in Massachusetts ... not sure where that came from?  We are currently registered in Wyoming.

Is that the only thing that you can prove me wrong?   

[BFL_Josh]

Prove you wrong about what? 

[chich18]

I think he means about all the point in his OP he made about something being funny about BFL's new ASIC. You proved him wrong on the owner location.

[Monkey1]

BFL have proved they are a serious company, shipping physical product and not a scam.  the only thing they have been reluctant to reveal is delivery dates etc, probably due to development issues.  When they first started accepting preorders, they probably had not developed the tech, but hopefully by now they have and its a question of asthetics etc?!  After all, they are due to start shipping in 4 weeks!

[king_pin]

I think he means about all the point in his OP he made about something being funny about BFL's new ASIC. You proved him wrong on the owner location.

Yes that is what I mean. You have proven me wrong on one point, now please prove me wrong on the other points that I mention in the first post, so I you can persuade me to buy some of your ASICs.
Now I am a skeptic so if you manage to persuade me I will probably persuade 1/4 of the Bulgarian Bitcoin forum and u can see from the mining statistics how many we are.

BFL have proved they are a serious company, shipping physical product and not a scam.  the only thing they have been reluctant to reveal is delivery dates etc, probably due to development issues.  When they first started accepting preorders, they probably had not developed the tech, but hopefully by now they have and its a question of asthetics etc?!  After all, they are due to start shipping in 4 weeks!

I agree with you, but I think that they are a real but not a serious company based on their PR, support and overall look.
I do think that they will eventually produce some ASICs, but I am willing to bet that:

   BFL won't start shipping before January - February 2013!  

[solareclipse64236]

They specifically said October, who said anything about January 2013?

[vphen]

I care, because I am scared

[QuantumKiwi]

I think he means about all the point in his OP he made about something being funny about BFL's new ASIC. You proved him wrong on the owner location.

Yes that is what I mean. You have proven me wrong on one point, now please prove me wrong on the other points that I mention in the first post, so I you can persuade me to buy some of your ASICs.
Now I am a skeptic so if you manage to persuade me I will probably persuade 1/4 of the Bulgarian Bitcoin forum and u can see from the mining statistics how many we are.

BFL have proved they are a serious company, shipping physical product and not a scam.  the only thing they have been reluctant to reveal is delivery dates etc, probably due to development issues.  When they first started accepting preorders, they probably had not developed the tech, but hopefully by now they have and its a question of asthetics etc?!  After all, they are due to start shipping in 4 weeks!

I agree with you, but I think that they are a real but not a serious company based on their PR, support and overall look.
I do think that they will eventually produce some ASICs, but I am willing to bet that:

   BFL won't start shipping before January - February 2013!  

Your the customer, he doesn't have to talk you into buying at all.

The website of BFL says it all.

Electrical engineers are not #1 on customer support or business, your hounding a race horse with no harness.... Come on, give them a break and let them release such a product before calling them lies.

[Fcx35x10]

i sure hope it's not B.S 

[Derringer]

It looks like typical "geek" small business to me: questionable customer service, a lot of margin for error in delivery dates and effectiveness, but they do eventually ship product and it fundamentally works... took them about nine weeks to get me an FPGA Single but it's whirring away on my desk like a ... little cube of hashing machinery. 

[king_pin]

...
The website of BFL says it all.
...

It says NOTHING! 

[Brian Puccio]

I'm in for a Jalapeno, it's money I can afford to lose and if it pays for itself quickly, great!

[jojo69]

Something I think needs to be said.

There exists motive to cast doubt on BFL's intention/ability to deliver.  Current miners with significant investment in GPU, or even FPGA, infrastructure show increased return on investment for every SC order that is NOT placed.

FUD pays in this case.

Just sayin'

[BFL_Josh]

Indeed, the bottom line is we are working to improve customer service and our shipping times.  We just shipped orders from the first of August, so we are getting caught up there.  I have been working hard on the customer service issue as well as the shipping issues.  We are also working very hard on getting the ASICs out the door on time.  We are really beefing up our production capacity and moving everything we can in house.  We've purchased a pick and place machine, an oven, stenciler and other equipment to manufacture all the boards in house.  This means we can produce as many boards as we need without being at the mercy of board manufacturers and their timing/runs. 

Our ASIC chip is 100% original IP and we will have as many chips as we need, when we need them.  We are standardizing a lot of our equipment, so we can keep massive quantities of inventory on hand (at least 6 months of production work is the goal), allowing us to crank out units - literally - 24 hours a day, 7 days a week if need be.  We've hired more personnel and will be hiring yet more people as we gear up.   

The ASIC generation is going to be much less complex, as well, so there will be less steps to creating a fully functional end unit, and we will also be able to assemble/produce the much faster.  Everything you know about BFL is changing now and will continue to change.  The only thing I can do is assure you we understand the concerns and we are doing everything we can to address the past mistakes. 

[ashjam]

i just paid for two "warmer" units via paypal and email support for order number. A person named pegi replied saying the order number is the paypal transaction number . Did anyone get this same reply ?

I paid with paypal but received an invoice as well as an order number (four digits). So I highly doubt its the paypal transaction ID, they were probably requesting your transaction ID from paypal so they could bring up your order number.

I had replied pegi, hopefully i get an invoice and order number too ..

[tcp_rst]

If they had never, ever delivered a functioning product in the past I'd be far more suspicious.  But they have.

[bitvientiane]

What if they made their original product at a (slight) loss to build a good reputation for themselves so people believe them enough to please a large preorder for the suppossed ASIC?

[tcp_rst]

What if they made their original product at a (slight) loss to build a good reputation for themselves so people believe them enough to please a large preorder for the suppossed ASIC?

I'd say that paranoia runs deep.  And if I was really paranoid I'd say that the OP was helping someone who works for one of the other two companies claiming they'll release an asic based product in the next 6 months.  In the end, no one is making anyone buy anything.  Mining, whether for bitcoin, coal or gold, is risky--you either accept the risk, or you don't.  Those are the options.