Bryan Micon's List of Non-BCST Ponzi's Still Running (with credit rating)

[JoelKatz]

Everyone says "look guys - people borrow at X% per week So I borrow at (X-1)% per week from you, handle all the BS, and we'll share the profits"  At the current size of this community, you could do this for a few hundred coins per month and make a very small profit.

Until your first default.

[1715683319]

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[1715683319]

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[1715683319]

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[Micon]

imho, bitcoin is perfectly suited for Ponzi/HYIP schemes. Not only can you sell the fact that bitcoin speculation can potentially pay off, but you can easily automate the scheme and run it even more anonymously than perfect money and liberty reserve. I'm surprised there isn't a massive bitcoin HYIP forum, and only a handful here. The only difference between the programs here and those other forums is the HYIP admin's didn't have to invest $50,000+ in advertising and listing fees to start their ponzi.

HYIP investment is just another form of gambling. Just like poker you believe you have the skills to game the system and beat everybody else who ends up losing.

1) The mods here gave (still give) stickies to Ponzi lists and before Pirate imploded the Lending forum had PPT stickies - best advertising you can get, and free?

2) I understand there exists "sharp" HYIP players - i.e. getting your principle out before the boom after making some interest - it does appear you could make money doing this.  I would personally never attempt this.  You are making a scammer huge money while profitting extremely small yourself.  Unlike poker, the losers are completely duped - they thought they were "investing."  Also the duped masses must come in teaming numbers for the scammer to make big $ and the +EV HYIP player to profit small.

[matthewh3]

Here is one for you. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77469.0
Not a ponzy but this guy is wasting investors coin fast.
It has lost more value in August than any of the defaulted PPT's.

What happened??

[556j]

Bryan is mad because his poker "friends" think bitcoin is a scam.

 http://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/showthread.php?796-Top-10-Reasons-Why-Bryan-Micon-is-Piece-of-Shit-Scumbag

You can't fix stupid. People that cannot tell the difference between "bitcoin was a currency used in a scam" and "bitcoin is a scam" aren't going to offer anything to bitcoin. Your illegal gambling site stands to gain a small bump. However I believe it would be very small. And it seems poker players have a lot more reasons to avoid your site than just the fact it uses btc. The accusactions of you using site admin status to game your players is interesting.

I think at some point you do more harm to your message than good. I do agree most everything in longterm offers is some variation of class scams. But the way you go about things (hostile, aggressive, illogical) would actually add some credibility to the things you are trying to protect sealswithclubs (I mean the community) from. You could learn some things from Joel on that front. I know perzonally I will avoid swc. Mainly because the admin abuse/bot accusactions seem as likely to me as the ponzi/scam ones. Supported by the way you act here and your googabled reputation.

[Micon]

Bryan is mad because his poker "friends" think bitcoin is a scam.

 http://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/showthread.php?796-Top-10-Reasons-Why-Bryan-Micon-is-Piece-of-Shit-Scumbag

You can't fix stupid. People that cannot tell the difference between "bitcoin was a currency used in a scam" and "bitcoin is a scam" aren't going to offer anything to bitcoin. Your illegal gambling site stands to gain a small bump. However I believe it would be very small. And it seems poker players have a lot more reasons to avoid your site than just the fact it uses btc. The accusactions of you using site admin status to game your players is interesting.

I think at some point you do more harm to your message than good. I do agree most everything in longterm offers is some variation of class scams. But the way you go about things (hostile, aggressive, illogical) would actually add some credibility to the things you are trying to protect sealswithclubs (I mean the community) from. You could learn some things from Joel on that front. I know perzonally I will avoid swc. Mainly because the admin abuse/bot accusactions seem as likely to me as the ponzi/scam ones. Supported by the way you act here and your googabled reputation.

1)  That post is from a long time troll, in a thread populated by long time trolls, on a site populated by long time trolls.  Read the entire thread - click on the OP and see all of his posts, scroll a bit... I think you can see a pattern of trolling + wild, false accusations - it's a culture of stupid, and I've recently exited it.  Not meant to be taken seriously

2)  Freemoney owns SealsWithClubs.  I'm the pro there and help market the site.  The software we use, Mavens, has no such "admin access" - again you are reading a troll whose message certainly worked as intended.   SealsWithClubs has a rock solid history and if players were getting hole-carded by management you would have heard complaints.  Download the software yourself.  Msg Briggsoft as a concerned possible buyer of the software - you just cannot hole card on Mavens.  Some on this board have poked extensively at the software, and I'm proud to say it's passed all tests so far.

3)  I agree I get emotional and sometimes post aggressively.  I promise you it stems from my passion for BTC and desire to make it better.

[Micon]

Also of note, here is the write up of BCST, in Slovenian: 


http://www.racunalniske-novice.com/novice/dogodki-in-obvestila/bitconi-vredni-vec-milijonov-evrov-izpuhteli-v-piramidni-shemi.html?GSM36f88fbc4c3c56feeb257a445ff23069


while the google-translate is worth a chuckle, these are the type of stories these scams generate.  Yes most people are stupid, and will generally read "look, that scam currency again"  - well even though they don't understand, to make bitcoin widely accepted they have to trust it.  It's so imperative that the 90%+ of the humans that will hopefully use bitcoin and won't ever understand it completely trust it - that's what makes it work.   let's start building the trust and not killing it.

[dank]

Also of note, here is the write up of BCST, in Slovenian: 


http://www.racunalniske-novice.com/novice/dogodki-in-obvestila/bitconi-vredni-vec-milijonov-evrov-izpuhteli-v-piramidni-shemi.html?GSM36f88fbc4c3c56feeb257a445ff23069


while the google-translate is worth a chuckle, these are the type of stories these scams generate.  Yes most people are stupid, and will generally read "look, that scam currency again"  - well even though they don't understand, to make bitcoin widely accepted they have to trust it.  It's so imperative that the 90%+ of the humans that will hopefully use bitcoin and won't ever understand it completely trust it - that's what makes it work.   let's start building the trust and not killing it.

Then why is it that you don't come off as a trustworthy guy?

[Dansker]

Doesn't it simply prove that bitcoins are in fact becoming an accepted currency, now that all the scammers are here?

I would be more concerned if there were no scammers; then we'd have to worry!

So by implication, if it's not worth stealing, it's not worth anything ?...lol

Yeah pretty much.
Personally I can't wait for the first time I see a nigerian scammer try to explain to someone how to set up a MtGox account.

You are both right in my book. Thieves won't steal things with no value, they only take things that are in high demand.

[greyhawk]

Update:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=97094.msg1157225#msg1157225

Looks like you keep on winning.

[556j]

Update:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=97094.msg1157225#msg1157225

Looks like you keep on winning.

He will be updating that thread years from now probably.

New status.  To be fair to team Ponzi the interests was not paid out, it was credited to the account and is compounding:

Code:

Week 416: 14,617,865,502,836,800 + 1,023,250,585,198,600 (interest) = 15,641,116,088,035,400

If he exchanged then at today's rate he will have over 162 Quadrillion USD . Woo go Burt!! Just that pesky issue of 21m limit on btc, will have to take out some of the interest a bit early and payoff Gavin to fix that. Or just cash 21m coins every other day.

edit: math fail, fixed now.

[Bitcoin Oz]

Also of note, here is the write up of BCST, in Slovenian: 


http://www.racunalniske-novice.com/novice/dogodki-in-obvestila/bitconi-vredni-vec-milijonov-evrov-izpuhteli-v-piramidni-shemi.html?GSM36f88fbc4c3c56feeb257a445ff23069


while the google-translate is worth a chuckle, these are the type of stories these scams generate.  Yes most people are stupid, and will generally read "look, that scam currency again"  - well even though they don't understand, to make bitcoin widely accepted they have to trust it.  It's so imperative that the 90%+ of the humans that will hopefully use bitcoin and won't ever understand it completely trust it - that's what makes it work.   let's start building the trust and not killing it.

Then why is it that you don't come off as a trustworthy guy?

I wouldnt leave coins with Micon either. But hes not the one holding peoples coins for some unknown use. 

[unclescrooge]

Bryan, you should add TangibleCryptography to your list of ponzis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99034.0

Clearly, 0.5 and 1% weekly, ponzi!

[JoelKatz]

Bryan, you should add TangibleCryptography to your list of ponzis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99034.0

Clearly, 0.5 and 1% weekly, ponzi!

Actually, Tangible Cryptography sounds like more of a publicity stunt than a legitimate investment to me. You'll notice that it didn't last very long and is now fully funded. Unless TC wants to continue it as a publicity thing, they'll likely pay off all their investors very shortly, if they haven't already.

[unclescrooge]

Bryan, you should add TangibleCryptography to your list of ponzis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99034.0

Clearly, 0.5 and 1% weekly, ponzi!

Actually, Tangible Cryptography sounds like more of a publicity stunt than a legitimate investment to me. You'll notice that it didn't last very long and is now fully funded. Unless TC wants to continue it as a publicity thing, they'll likely pay off all their investors very shortly, if they haven't already.

Actually I do agree with you, since earlier TangibleCryptography "complained" about their lack of clients. However the business model is plausible.

[bitlover]

Then why is it that you don't come off as a trustworthy guy?

What? You realize that to "come off as a trustworthy guy" is the first thing most scammers have to learn to do, right? Also, there are legions of trustworthy people that do not appear to be so and that only show their value when it is truly needed.

In other words, the only way to determine the real trustworthiness of somebody is to disregard any personal data and things that can be used to buy good will like "but he donates so much to the poor children" (Sorry starfish & wife, I am only pointing something that scammers can and tend to do) and instead pay attention to the hard and cold numbers, business models, market conditions, and results. 

Also, please realize that ponzi schemes not only benefit the scammer but also the people who manage to get in and then out at the right moment. Those people are also interested in making the ponzi run for as long as possible to maximize their own personal gain. Therefore, third party testimonials need to be disregarded too unless they come -again- with plenty of cold, hard numbers to back them up. And for the record "I invested X and got paid Y as advertized" is not good enough because that's precisely how (and why) ponzi schemes work.

[PatrickHarnett]

In other words, the only way to determine the real trustworthiness of somebody is to disregard any personal data and things that can be used to buy good will like "but he donates so much to the poor children" (Sorry starfish & wife, I am only pointing something that scammers can and tend to do) and instead pay attention to the hard and cold numbers, business models, market conditions, and results. 

No offence.  maybe I should try to emulate the bullies and others that are trying to save everyone from themselves.  Anyway, I think my wife has a much better character than I do.

Disregarding personal data, all you would be left with is the record of loans/investments and deposit repayments that I make.  That might not be a good thing because I ran with 1.5%/week for half a year before dropping it to 1%/week.  Note these are nominal rates, and while it is little point trying to educate people about real rates and market risk premiums, bitcoin is not comparable to USD or most OECD economies, so the rates are different.  Borrowing at 25%APR for a house is not that long ago.

Happy to be a faceless ATM for users.  Don't forget you pin number.

[Metal]

Darn. Looks like there are completely legitimate businesses that can provide bitcoin-long-term-offer-esque returns after all:

http://www.reddit.com/r/finance/comments/zcwp9/can_someone_explain_how_someone_could_be_stupid/

Don't ask me how this is even legal.

[Mosrite]

Byron Micon is the Ponzi Breaker. He jacks fools.

[dust]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=60117.msg1165301#msg1165301
EIEIO and by extension GIPPT in trouble.

[Kluge]

Jesus, I was finally added. Micon, I've had principal and interest for loans listed -- it's been that way since I started taking deposits in March. I made loans (back in January) before I took deposits, and have been returning deposits for months, now, because I dislike the risk. My deposit amounts have been decreasing, not increasing. Most lendees have verifiable forum names. My name, phone number, and address are about as public as possible without publicly posting my ID. It doesn't really matter if people are willing to pay more for short-term loans than what you consider reasonable - that doesn't make the lender a ponzi-operator. -But, knowing that (or ignoring it because knowing what you're talking about takes too long) and still listing what I do as operating a ponzi implies you are a lazy loud-mouth troll.... or a dullard. (or both)


Now, let's look at what your actions have done. Knowing Pat on a much more personal level (we talk daily -- almost everyone in the lending cartel talks daily with each other), I can vouch for him as an honest, hard-working person - intelligent in the field he works professionally, as well as in what he does on this forum. He's basically facing a run, now. I've been put in a similar situation (not related to depositors fleeing, but bad loans leaving me starved for working capital), where I've had to call in loans (voluntarily, for them) at a loss. Pro-rating interest and then also having them asked to return the funds early would be kind of obnoxious. Generally, lendees get to keep all the interest they would've otherwise paid, and just return principal, since we're grateful they returned principal at all, given we need it *now* to pay out depositors. If any financial institution on Earth were faced with depositors fleeing at the rate we've experienced the past month, they would've all crumbled. It's not because they're ponzis, but because they (and we) rely on consumer confidence. We need that trust, and we can't have 50% of deposits jumping out the window all within a few weeks, because it requires we liquidate our assets at a loss -- a big loss. Lenders now leaving the market may indicate they operated a ponzi (and just happened to be returning deposits in all cases of people involved with the lending cartel), but, more likely, I'd imagine it indicates they're deeply annoyed by a small handful of people waltzing around with a shit-brush and smearing it on their faces every day, do not enjoy working capital starvation through the exodus of depositors, and of course, have a lot of bad loans popping up because lendees were quietly using funds to put into a Pirate account. Negative trends take away that light at the end of the tunnel -- but maybe you're just weeding out people who jump too soon - Idunno.

Keep doing what you do until you feel better about yourself, though - I'll be sticking around with ya.