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Author Topic: How to make an Electrum 2.x seed using only dice?  (Read 1004 times)
zowki (OP)
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May 10, 2015, 04:18:59 PM
 #1

Is there a method like this except for Electrum 2.x 13 word seeds?

Method for Electrum 1.x 12 word seeds:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=878614.0

I'm basically looking for a way to make electrum seeds without having to trust a computer. I'm worried that my copy of electrum could be compromised and only generate predictable seeds.
btchris
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May 11, 2015, 01:03:41 PM
 #2

Here is a way to do this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=973997.msg10644190#msg10644190
zowki (OP)
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May 11, 2015, 01:12:53 PM
 #3


Thanks for the suggestion but that doesn't help if my copy of electrum is compromised. The program might ignore the entropy I provide and make a predictable seed instead.

I'm looking for a way like I described in my first post where you don't even need to use a computer to generate the seed (use the physical world only).
btchris
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May 11, 2015, 02:38:15 PM
 #4

Thanks for the suggestion but that doesn't help if my copy of electrum is compromised. The program might ignore the entropy I provide and make a predictable seed instead.

I'm looking for a way like I described in my first post where you don't even need to use a computer to generate the seed (use the physical world only).

Got it.

You can actually use the same method as in the first post you referenced, with a few small changes.

1. Use at least 13 words (more is OK too).

2. Enter the result into Electrum 2.x to see if the result is valid (via a wallet restore). If it's invalid, the button to continue will be grayed out.

3. Use one of these two methods to modify your seed, and return to step 2 to see if it's valid:
  • Add a 1 digit to the end (with or without a space, doesn't matter), or increment that digit.
  • Re-roll the last word.

On average, you need to perform step 3 about 130 times before before you end up with a valid Electrum 2.x seed, however it's possible that you could need fewer or many more. For example, there's about a 14% chance you'll need to do step 3 500 or more times....

Also, be sure to take note of my response in that other thread, which remains important for generating an Electrum 2.x seed:

Quote
you need a deterministic way to decide which die is #1, which is #2, etc. For example, you could roll them each one at a time, or you could use six different colored dice with each color always representing the same die #, or you could just always read the dice from left-most to right-most however they happen to fall (easy to do objectively if you have Travel Yahtzee). If you don't have some such deterministic method, you will almost certainly introduce bias as you read off the dice in your own personal order.
Abdussamad
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May 11, 2015, 04:46:19 PM
 #5

I'm basically looking for a way to make electrum seeds without having to trust a computer. I'm worried that my copy of electrum could be compromised and only generate predictable seeds.

If your computer is compromised then it doesn't really matter how you generate a seed. Mal-electrum could simply send the seed to the hacker after you've created a wallet with it.

I suggest shuffling a deck of cards and then making a string out of the result. Say some thing like
1s-2c-ad

for 1 of spades, 2 of clubs, ace of diamonds etc. for the whole deck

Then do an md5sum of that and restore your wallet using the resulting hex digits:

Code:
echo -n "1s-2c-ad..."|md5sum

This will create non-bip32 wallet but it can be done on electrum 2.x because it is backward compatible with 1.9.8 wallets.

ThomasV
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May 12, 2015, 11:26:33 AM
 #6

you can use the make_seed command and pass custom entropy

Code:
electrum make_seed --entropy <random number>

Electrum: the convenience of a web wallet, without the risks
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