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Author Topic: Is asking for a feedback is wrong  (Read 1606 times)
rivoke
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May 13, 2015, 03:51:23 PM
 #21

Just to clear my doubt Please let me know
Is asking for a feedback is wrong??
You answer may be helpful and give me more information about the forum

IMO, asking for feedback means forcing indirectly.
I think it better for someone to give some feedback without being asked because if you ask too much that you're more likely try to buying trust.
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May 13, 2015, 04:26:48 PM
 #22

Just to clear my doubt Please let me know
Is asking for a feedback is wrong??
You answer may be helpful and give me more information about the forum

IMO, asking for feedback means forcing indirectly.
I think it better for someone to give some feedback without being asked because if you ask too much that you're more likely try to buying trust.

I think you are not forcing him if you say that "You can give me a feedback", Its now upto him will he going to give you a positive feedback. He is not forcing you he is just reminding you, And if you see that this guy is trustworthy and already has good trust, you can also give him a trust.
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May 13, 2015, 04:42:37 PM
 #23

If you ask me to hold 5 BTC for you for safekeeping for a few weeks then at the end of the transaction it would be appropriate for you to leave a positive feedback for me. However if I were to leave positive feedback for you in that deal then it would be little more then me selling trust which is not something that should be done.

If no money is ever risked on someone then previous trades would show very little about how trustworthy that person is.

I agree with the bolded part but still a person shouldn't ask for it. If you hold 5 BTC for me and are trustworthy, why would you need my trusted feedback? You are trusted and that will stand irrespective of my feedback or anyone else's feedback. It would be my choice whether I leave you a feedback or not and if I don't, that's not wrong as well. For me, feedback isn't important but a person being honest and trustworthy is more important irrespective of his feedback.

I have had dealings with a user for more than 2 years and I guess I have exchanged about $1000 with him in this time but still I haven't left him positive feedback as that isn't important to me. I still have deals with him and he has with me.

I worthy feedback which is given without being asked for rather than the feedback you ask for. Do you ask for honesty in real life or tell any person, "Hey, please trust me and recommend me after having a deal with me"? It's not right to do that no matter how much money you exchange with someone. It's not wrong to ask for feedback but it isn't good as well to ask for trust.


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May 13, 2015, 04:52:19 PM
 #24

Escrows like to get additional feedback so they can show additional vouches so they can better sell their service. Also even if you have a high trust rating if all of your trades were from a long time ago and you have not traded at all for a long time then some may question your continued integrity. It is not so much about needing to show as being trusted, it is getting additional feedback regarding their ability to be trusted and their professionalism.

I wouldn't ever force, or attempt to force someone to give a positive rating, or attempt to coerce them into removing a negative rating (for example by sending retaliatory negative feedback) however my standard closing after I finish an escrow deal is to ask for positive trust, and/or a review on my escrow thread and/or a tip if they feel everything went smoothly, and I won't follow up if none have been received. Nevertheless the above example is an example of when positive trust should be given, especially if it was for that large of an amount.   

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May 13, 2015, 10:18:39 PM
 #25

It's not wrong to ask for feedback but one shouldn't demand it or have an exchange (if I give you feedback, you also need to give me feedback). There are many members who actually do that just to build up trust. One should leave feedback if he/she wishes to and in fact not when asked to leave. It's important to not leave feedback just after 1-2 trades as it hurts the trust system if the user abuses it and scams another member.
I would disagree with this. If one person took on zero risk in a transaction then it would be less appropriate to leave trust feedback while if money was risked then a positive rating is almost certainly appropriate. Even if only one trade was done then it would be appropriate to leave trust if money was risked while this would not be the case if no money was risked.

Anyone specifically trading with someone just for the trust that comes with the trade should not receive positive trust and is highly suspicious in my book.

Here you emphasize that trust should be based on the amount of risk undertaken by a party.  But just a few posts above you emphasize that this is trust feedback system not a trade feedback system.  These two viewpoints are incommensurate.  In your first opinion you suggest that people can leave feedback for any cause, no matter the risk.  The latter opinion tries to correlate the validity of trust with the risk involved. How can you hold both these conflicting opinions simultaneously (or are you just posting to increase your signature pay?---NB: I only add this paranthetical because that is exactly what you have done to me many times when I disagree with you---more recently you took it to even greater extremes, leaving me negative feedback multiple times from multiple accounts just because I disagreed with you).
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May 14, 2015, 02:08:59 AM
 #26

It's not wrong to ask for feedback but one shouldn't demand it or have an exchange (if I give you feedback, you also need to give me feedback). There are many members who actually do that just to build up trust. One should leave feedback if he/she wishes to and in fact not when asked to leave. It's important to not leave feedback just after 1-2 trades as it hurts the trust system if the user abuses it and scams another member.
I would disagree with this. If one person took on zero risk in a transaction then it would be less appropriate to leave trust feedback while if money was risked then a positive rating is almost certainly appropriate. Even if only one trade was done then it would be appropriate to leave trust if money was risked while this would not be the case if no money was risked.

Anyone specifically trading with someone just for the trust that comes with the trade should not receive positive trust and is highly suspicious in my book.

Here you emphasize that trust should be based on the amount of risk undertaken by a party.  But just a few posts above you emphasize that this is trust feedback system not a trade feedback system.  These two viewpoints are incommensurate.  In your first opinion you suggest that people can leave feedback for any cause, no matter the risk.  The latter opinion tries to correlate the validity of trust with the risk involved. How can you hold both these conflicting opinions simultaneously (or are you just posting to increase your signature pay?---NB: I only add this paranthetical because that is exactly what you have done to me many times when I disagree with you---more recently you took it to even greater extremes, leaving me negative feedback multiple times from multiple accounts just because I disagreed with you).
If you risked a large amount of money when trading with someone then you obviously needed to trust them enough to take such a risk. If you take risk with someone then there is no way around the fact that you trust them.

Giving trust because of risk taken is one reason why giving a trust rating is appropriate, however is not the only reason why one is appropriate.

Giving a trust rating when zero is risked, especially for very small transactions makes no sense because you did not need to trust them to engage in such trades.

There are other non-trading reasons to give trust feedback, e.g. you witness someone engaging in trustworthy behavior and/or scammy behavior and/or witness them scamming and/or them admitting to scamming (as in your case).

I personally find it hard to believe that someone could possibly be thickheaded enough to seriously not see this conclusion based on my posts and the only reasonable conclusion as to the reason for you comments would be that you are trying to stir up trouble

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May 14, 2015, 05:15:00 AM
 #27

certain people have been known to leave feedback for members while being on the default trust list.  this has a big impact on the receiving members trust rating.  later you find that they are just shills of the other account and do questionable things with said feedback.
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May 14, 2015, 05:59:52 AM
 #28

certain people have been known to leave feedback for members while being on the default trust list.  this has a big impact on the receiving members trust rating.  later you find that they are just shills of the other account and do questionable things with said feedback.

There is mainly one thing that people do with trust, take loans, as long as you require a collateral and use escrow you will always be safe, i almost never take in count the trust and you shouldnt either. People who care about feedback is probably because they want to do something bad with it

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May 14, 2015, 03:40:48 PM
 #29

It's not wrong to ask for feedback but one shouldn't demand it or have an exchange (if I give you feedback, you also need to give me feedback). There are many members who actually do that just to build up trust. One should leave feedback if he/she wishes to and in fact not when asked to leave. It's important to not leave feedback just after 1-2 trades as it hurts the trust system if the user abuses it and scams another member.
I would disagree with this. If one person took on zero risk in a transaction then it would be less appropriate to leave trust feedback while if money was risked then a positive rating is almost certainly appropriate. Even if only one trade was done then it would be appropriate to leave trust if money was risked while this would not be the case if no money was risked.

Anyone specifically trading with someone just for the trust that comes with the trade should not receive positive trust and is highly suspicious in my book.

Here you emphasize that trust should be based on the amount of risk undertaken by a party.  But just a few posts above you emphasize that this is trust feedback system not a trade feedback system.  These two viewpoints are incommensurate.  In your first opinion you suggest that people can leave feedback for any cause, no matter the risk.  The latter opinion tries to correlate the validity of trust with the risk involved. How can you hold both these conflicting opinions simultaneously (or are you just posting to increase your signature pay?---NB: I only add this paranthetical because that is exactly what you have done to me many times when I disagree with you---more recently you took it to even greater extremes, leaving me negative feedback multiple times from multiple accounts just because I disagreed with you).
If you risked a large amount of money when trading with someone then you obviously needed to trust them enough to take such a risk. If you take risk with someone then there is no way around the fact that you trust them.

Giving trust because of risk taken is one reason why giving a trust rating is appropriate, however is not the only reason why one is appropriate.

Giving a trust rating when zero is risked, especially for very small transactions makes no sense because you did not need to trust them to engage in such trades.
Great, got it.  So you shouldn't give feedback when you don't risk something, I see.
Quote

There are other non-trading reasons to give trust feedback, e.g. you witness someone engaging in trustworthy behavior and/or scammy behavior and/or witness them scamming and/or them admitting to scamming (as in your case).
You are outright lying here. It's doubtful that you were even on the forums 2.5 years ago when TF accused me.  How would you have "witnessed" anything?  Taking the word of a known scammer isn't witnessing.
Quote

I personally find it hard to believe that someone could possibly be thickheaded enough to seriously not see this conclusion based on my posts and the only reasonable conclusion as to the reason for you comments would be that you are trying to stir up trouble

You're cute!  I know you can't resist the ad hominem, but it's fun that you've changed your signature "you are an idiot" for the more Charlie Brown style "thickheaded".  With respect to stirring up trouble, is that what you were doing to me when you trolled me on multiple threads with multiple acounts and left multiple negative feedbacks for me using multiple accounts in a (failed) attempt to get me kicked out of a signature ad campaign?

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May 14, 2015, 03:49:04 PM
 #30

-snip-
Taking the word of a known scammer isn't witnessing.
 -snip-

Using "known scammer" everytime is certainly for derailing.

We can take your and others' words.

SaltySpitoon's post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303613.msg3269384#msg3269384

Blazr's post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303613.msg11163154#msg11163154

Grue's post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303613.msg3251561#msg3251561

r3wt's post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303613.msg3252882#msg3252882 & https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303613.msg3255011#msg3255011

There was a rule that if anybody want to use a bot, the name should contain "bot" in it but tspacepilot wrote "b0t": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303613.msg3252956#msg3252956

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May 14, 2015, 04:23:39 PM
 #31

MZ, I'm not sure why we're continuing this here, but if you're going to keep doing this, I'm going to have to keep replying.
-snip-
Taking the word of a known scammer isn't witnessing.
 -snip-

Using "known scammer" everytime is certainly for derailing.
It's not "derailing".  It's an apt characterization of the one guy who brings the accusation.  He accused, I disputed.  Everyone walked away.  He was shown to be a liar and a theif.  I was shown to be a peaceful and helpful citizen who did many small projects and had a lot of fun on these boards without causing an issue.
Quote
None of those people have any evidence beyone what TF and I say to each other.  They are parsing the argument in the context where I was an unknown noob and he was on default trust.  He was making up all kinds of things in that discussion as if they were facts and his reputation (at the time) meant that people believed his word over mine.  This should no longer be the case.  Hindsight, as they say, provides a 20-20 vision.  If you don't have a bias against me (as QS does), then you ought to be able to see exactly what happened there for what it was.  TF got mad and tried to push me around, I wouldn't take it and walked away.  History has vindicated me.
Quote
There was a rule that if anybody want to use a bot, the name should contain "bot" in it but tspacepilot wrote "b0t": https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303613.msg3252956#msg3252956
As has been said multiple times in multiple places, I didn't receive the rules until after TF kicked me.  This is depsite asking him about rules for bots even as I was experimenting (note, I never got out of the experimental phase), he replied to several of my questions about node.js, but never got back to me about the rules until our email exchange after he kicked me out.
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May 14, 2015, 07:51:19 PM
 #32

Just to clear my doubt Please let me know
Is asking for a feedback is wrong??
You answer may be helpful and give me more information about the forum

Edit : I'm here asking to all member who left positive feedback on my account to remove it if it was asked by me from you.
Please don't remove any negative feedback because I think I deserves it.
From now I will make a criteria to judge people and to also judge where to leave negative trust and where positive all who will ask for a feedback will definitely get a negative feedback from me.


Depends who asks and who is asked.

Dogie trust abuse, spam, bullying, conspiracy posts & insults to forum members. Ask the mods or admins to move Dogie's spam or off topic stalking posts to the link above.
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May 14, 2015, 08:25:40 PM
 #33

If someone asks me to leave them positive feedback, after a trade or if they provided me with a service, I almost never do it.

why though? When I buy something on eBay and all goes smoothly, if the seller politely requests feedback, whats the problem? It helps them and their eBay business, I got good service, it is just courteous. I leave honest feedback, good or bad, every time in fact. Having been involved in various businesses in my life, I appreciate the value of customer feedback. I also realize many people aren't really thinking about it, so a polite reminder is no problem to me.

Are you one of those people who refuse to leave a tip in restaurants, on principal alone? No offense, because the choice is entirely yours, but your reply to OP just seems stingy. Fill me in on your logic regarding your use of the feedback system because I can see no harm in a request for feedback after a deal has been done. Are there people only doing trades to inflate their trust rating, hoping to catch bigger fish later on? If so, what good is the trust system anyway?
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May 14, 2015, 08:33:40 PM
 #34

If someone asks me to leave them positive feedback, after a trade or if they provided me with a service, I almost never do it.

why though? When I buy something on eBay and all goes smoothly, if the seller politely requests feedback, whats the problem? It helps them and their eBay business, I got good service, it is just courteous. I leave honest feedback, good or bad, every time in fact. Having been involved in various businesses in my life, I appreciate the value of customer feedback. I also realize many people aren't really thinking about it, so a polite reminder is no problem to me.

Are you one of those people who refuse to leave a tip in restaurants, on principal alone? No offense, because the choice is entirely yours, but your reply to OP just seems stingy. Fill me in on your logic regarding your use of the feedback system because I can see no harm in a request for feedback after a deal has been done. Are there people only doing trades to inflate their trust rating, hoping to catch bigger fish later on? If so, what good is the trust system anyway?
When you trade with someone on eBay then any feedback that you leave is weighed equally to everyone else's feedback. With the trust system on this forum, certain people's trust ratings are weighed significantly more heavily then others. This means that some people actively seek to trade with people who have this significant trust weight.

Also eBay uses a trade feedback system. This forum uses a trust feedback system  there is a huge difference.

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