Britcoin 2.0 Under New Management: Cryptocurrency For The Masses

[greenmo]

http://marketcapcoin.com/session.php?symbol=BritCoin

The current price of Brit is $0.000368

Would anyone want to sell me 100k at the last price?

37 quid for 100K BRIT -- Says it all!  Development (not only tech-wise) is the important thing.

By the way, I think a 'long tail' emission like in XMR and Doge would be good -- We want people to keep staking forever.

[will7am]

http://marketcapcoin.com/session.php?symbol=BritCoin

The current price of Brit is $0.000368

Would anyone want to sell me 100k at the last price?

37 quid for 100K BRIT -- Says it all!  Development (not only tech-wise) is the important thing.

By the way, I think a 'long tail' emission like in XMR and Doge would be good -- We want people to keep staking forever.

Actually that's $37 - not pounds lol

How would a long tail emission work?  I don't keep up to date with XMR or DOGE much

[greenmo]

http://marketcapcoin.com/session.php?symbol=BritCoin

The current price of Brit is $0.000368

Would anyone want to sell me 100k at the last price?

37 quid for 100K BRIT -- Says it all!  Development (not only tech-wise) is the important thing.

By the way, I think a 'long tail' emission like in XMR and Doge would be good -- We want people to keep staking forever.

Actually that's $37 - not pounds lol

How would a long tail emission work?  I don't keep up to date with XMR or DOGE much

Oh right, copied the numbers wrong.  Seems it was GBP 26 then, at today's USD-GBP exchange rate.

The long tail means that some small amount of coins continue to be created for a very long time.  XMR and DOGE are proof-of-work coins of course -- It makes sense because you'd always want someone to mine them.  Of course, miners get transaction fees anyway from existing coins so don't really *need* the subsidy (from new coins), but the tail emission would help the coin if the coin became less popular for a while -- You'd have people mining even if there were very few transactions happening.

[greenmo]

http://marketcapcoin.com/session.php?symbol=BritCoin

The current price of Brit is $0.000368

Would anyone want to sell me 100k at the last price?

37 quid for 100K BRIT -- Says it all!  Development (not only tech-wise) is the important thing.

By the way, I think a 'long tail' emission like in XMR and Doge would be good -- We want people to keep staking forever.

Actually that's $37 - not pounds lol

How would a long tail emission work?  I don't keep up to date with XMR or DOGE much

Oh right, copied the numbers wrong.  Seems it was GBP 26 then, at today's USD-GBP exchange rate.

The long tail means that some small amount of coins continue to be created for a very long time.  XMR and DOGE are proof-of-work coins of course -- It makes sense because you'd always want someone to mine them.  Of course, miners get transaction fees anyway from existing coins so don't really *need* the subsidy (from new coins), but the tail emission would help the coin if the coin became less popular for a while -- You'd have people mining even if there were very few transactions happening.

Therefore, it helps the security of the chain by keeping more people mining or staking in the long term.

[VanityWallets2015]

What is going on? Another premine? Erm, no!? Disagree.

By all means increase the stake so initial and current investors retain the same proportion of investment in the coin/brand and let stakeholders distribute and contribute to a foundation. I wouldnt be happy for my investment to be reduced from 5% to 1% because of an additional premine.

The existing blockchain must be continued and respected!

If I were you I would communicate with this "Ken" chap to see what he is doing, although I suspect Ken doesnt even exist, why would you buy something to take it offline? Bit weird.

A foundation and roadmap should be made, and largely decided, by its richlist and main investors (an additional premine is unacceptable as this would devalue any initial investment by current stakeholders.)

You do know BRIT is worthless right now?  As in you would have a hard time finding an exchange or person to trade with.

Forking the chain and adding an extra 1m coins (just throwing this figure out there) to put together a team would mean an increase of less than 10% to the coin supply, but enable Britcoin to progress.  No one is going to work on Brit if they don't feel like they have a stake in the development.

We can do this addition coin fork in a open and democratic way, with an application process and clear roles and bounties.  Like I said, Britcoin is pretty much worth $0.0000001 per coin, so I don't think the coin supply is the biggest problem right now.

As for Ken, I assure you he was real lol  Sadly no one has heard anything from him for awhile, which is a shame.

As far as "getting on Bittrex" being necessary;

1 - in the future banks and regulated exchanges will be important, not existing exchanges
2 - coins can be added anytime, the important thing is a consistent blockchain from day zero
3 - some people are developing decentralised exchanges for buy and sell orders
4 - you can now create currencies and assets across existing platforms - bitshares, nxt, horizon so britcoin is not currently exclusive

1. - Yes in the future, but I can't see HSBC working with Britcoin any time soon.  Until then getting on Bittrex, Polo and Shapeshift is important.
2. - Bittrex won't have a problem with us adding more coins, that's ridiculous.
3. - Getting on openledger.info would be great, I know some people from BTS and could have a word.  As for other decentralized exchanges, they don't exist yet afaik.

The main "customer" for Britcoin is HM Treasury, they are after all the largest investment vehicle and success would be dictated by their level of interest or support.

The main customer for Brit are the British public, I'd rather stay away from HM Treasury tbh  

I just think it's unfair for people who have supported Britcoin for a long time, nearly two years, who invested money in good faith and to date have little in return, buying and selling on Bittrex just to keep the coin there etc etc, so I would appreciate a vote in any developments for the proportion of my stake.

The chain is not broken as such, so as long as there are backups of the blockchain to this point then at least everything is in good order.

I think it is important that existing stakeholders receive additional coins by increasing POS only for a fixed period to help increase distribution - I am happy to do a giveaway and contribute coins ongoing.

To create an additional "premine" on the chain, is the equivalent of banks printing money against thin air (quantitative easing) which is partly why the blockchain was invented to prevent that sort of behaviour.

I would suggest;

Implementing an increased POS for a fixed period, say 2 years.
Increase the POS to 100% - 200% per month for the fixed period.
Form a foundation with contracts with stakeholders to fund a foundation from the stake.
Allow the coin to be governed by its stakeholders.

As I said I am from the UK, own 500,000 of these with over 12,000 already dedicated for a giveaway.

You can be sure that I will use my investment for the growth of Britcoin.

** I dont care about Britcoin being on exchanges, the important thing is to recognise legal rights of stakeholders/investors (without doing so voids the nature of consensus of the chain) and then increase global uptake and distribution. **

Also get the old website from archive.org if Wil hasn't sold it and get that up with the new wallet.

Price: there can only be one BRITcoin, I think with public uptake each coin will in future be worth a minimum of £1.00 each, as I said before in order to do so the banks and HM Treasury do have to become "partners" to increase the amount of cash liquidity into the brand.

Do you have a slack?

[gjhiggins]

legal rights of stakeholders/investors

That one's easy.

None. Zip. Nada. Zilch. Nullus sausagus.


Cheers

Graham

[VanityWallets2015]

legal rights of stakeholders/investors

That one's easy.

None. Zip. Nada. Zilch. Nullus sausagus.


Cheers

Graham

Hi Graham,

Can you explain the "non-legal" rights of stakeholders?

For conventional currencies, the issuer (or directors appointed to manage an economy within a currency e.g. the Bank of England with pound sterling) are stakeholders, e.g. they manage the currency for the best interests of its users (other banks and general public) to maintain its value against other currencies.

So given that investors are stakeholders (e.g. any business, person or asset that chooses to use a currency for purchasing and selling), in the traditional sense, what you are saying Graham is that Bitcoin and all digital currencies can be FUCKED at any time by a handful of people despite people (stakeholders) owning the coins, and anyone can divert investment for their own means if they are willing to do a bit of developing.

You do realise what you have just demonstrated with that statement that means that digital currencies are machines of theft, and that Bitcoin and digital currencies are a con, and no better than fiat? And therefore ONLY proof of work coins that work purely on consensus and open voting can be trusted.

Satoshi invented Bitcoin (without the foresight of ASICS) to be run in consensus, that is that all stakeholders have a say, after all that is the whole point of the blockchain. So why would people think it is OK to sabotage something that people have invested in?

Just because there are no formal regulations does not mean that digital currencies do not conform to existing legislation.

The governments will be watching everything people are doing and just waiting for the honeypot to catch enough people.

Any change that is implemented without the stakeholders would invalidate the trust nature of the blockchain and therefore abuse its trust and potentially damage the future integrity of a brand or coin. You may think that is rubbish now, but I guarantee when finTech moves into the blockchain there will be a set of key regulations and checkpoints that any digital currency will have to pass in order to be listed on any exchanges, which will be regulated.

If the blockchain is about trust, then POS digital currencies that are manipulated without consensus during its lifetime are no investment vehicle and will not pass stringent tests in the future.

THINK before you do anything!

[greenmo]

I just think it's unfair for people who have supported Britcoin for a long time, nearly two years, who invested money in good faith and to date have little in return, buying and selling on Bittrex just to keep the coin there etc etc, so I would appreciate a vote in any developments for the proportion of my stake.

The chain is not broken as such, so as long as there are backups of the blockchain to this point then at least everything is in good order.

I think it is important that existing stakeholders receive additional coins by increasing POS only for a fixed period to help increase distribution - I am happy to do a giveaway and contribute coins ongoing.

To create an additional "premine" on the chain, is the equivalent of banks printing money against thin air (quantitative easing) which is partly why the blockchain was invented to prevent that sort of behaviour.

I would suggest;

Implementing an increased POS for a fixed period, say 2 years.
Increase the POS to 100% - 200% per month for the fixed period.
Form a foundation with contracts with stakeholders to fund a foundation from the stake.
Allow the coin to be governed by its stakeholders.

As I said I am from the UK, own 500,000 of these with over 12,000 already dedicated for a giveaway.

You can be sure that I will use my investment for the growth of Britcoin.

** I dont care about Britcoin being on exchanges, the important thing is to recognise legal rights of stakeholders/investors (without doing so voids the nature of consensus of the chain) and then increase global uptake and distribution. **

Also get the old website from archive.org if Wil hasn't sold it and get that up with the new wallet.

Price: there can only be one BRITcoin, I think with public uptake each coin will in future be worth a minimum of £1.00 each, as I said before in order to do so the banks and HM Treasury do have to become "partners" to increase the amount of cash liquidity into the brand.

Do you have a slack?

No slack yet, but there's an IRC channel called #britcoin3 on freenode.

Nothing's been decided yet about putting extra coins on the chain.  I think a temporary higher interest rate is also potentially something that could work, but then investors would be reluctant to give away their high-staking coins for community goals.

What do people think about the 'long tail' idea?  That's something that would eventually break the 22 million coin limit, but I think that we should be able to have a do-over in coming up with the rules for this system -- This is still early in the crypto game and everyone is finding their feet!

(I have much respect for XMR and Dogecoin for going with the long tail model.  I think Bitcoin has made a mistake by not going for it.)

[will7am]

I just think it's unfair for people who have supported Britcoin for a long time, nearly two years, who invested money in good faith and to date have little in return, buying and selling on Bittrex just to keep the coin there etc etc, so I would appreciate a vote in any developments for the proportion of my stake.

The chain is not broken as such, so as long as there are backups of the blockchain to this point then at least everything is in good order.

I think it's more unfair for Britcoin supporters that there are no seed nodes running v3.0, no official website, no exchanges, no regular new developments and next to no marketing (except for your efforts, thanks) being done on this project.  This coin will fade in to obscurity unless something drastic is done, which is a lot worse for supporters than adding new coins and getting together a team.

You do have a vote in what happens with Britcoin, even more so since you have a large bag, everyone who's involved does.  But sometimes your vote/opinion/suggestion doesn't get enough support to be implemented.  But that doesn't mean the system is broken, just means it was considered and rejected by too many people and is how this should be done.

I think it is important that existing stakeholders receive additional coins by increasing POS only for a fixed period to help increase distribution - I am happy to do a giveaway and contribute coins ongoing.

To create an additional "premine" on the chain, is the equivalent of banks printing money against thin air (quantitative easing) which is partly why the blockchain was invented to prevent that sort of behaviour.

I would suggest;

Implementing an increased POS for a fixed period, say 2 years.
Increase the POS to 100% - 200% per month for the fixed period.
Form a foundation with contracts with stakeholders to fund a foundation from the stake.
Allow the coin to be governed by its stakeholders.

As I said I am from the UK, own 500,000 of these with over 12,000 already dedicated for a giveaway.

You can be sure that I will use my investment for the growth of Britcoin.

I don't get why you think adding new coins is ruining the sanctity of with the blockchain (ETH don't even have a fixed supply) but then you want to change the PoS payouts?  Aren't they just different ways of doing the same thing?

I think 5% annually is already high enough in my opinion.  You also have to realize that 100k Britcoins is worth around £25 at the last price, you're not going to find anyone willing to do significant long term work for that.  I was listening to Evan Duffield on letstalkbitcoin (I think?) a few months ago and he said he puts a part of the success of Dash down to the fact that the team working on the coin hold a significant holdings of the coins, around 10%.  He said (and I saw it happen to myself with Brit) that what happens to most coins is the people who work on the coin end up selling coins to cover the time/cost of running the project and then lose interest because they no longer have a large stake in the project.
 

** I dont care about Britcoin being on exchanges, the important thing is to recognise legal rights of stakeholders/investors (without doing so voids the nature of consensus of the chain) and then increase global uptake and distribution. **

Also get the old website from archive.org if Wil hasn't sold it and get that up with the new wallet.

Price: there can only be one BRITcoin, I think with public uptake each coin will in future be worth a minimum of £1.00 each, as I said before in order to do so the banks and HM Treasury do have to become "partners" to increase the amount of cash liquidity into the brand.

As mentioned I'm not sure you have legal rights of stakeholders/investors?  This is an open source project and no promises were made that the price you pay for 1 Brit will be worth more or less after 1, 5, 10 years.

I've got the old website on my old laptop but I no longer own britcoin.io, I am trying to get britcoin.com sorted but the owner hasn't emailed me back for a few days.  Will let everyone know how I get on with that.



I'm putting together a team of people who want to work on Britcoin (in return for a small bag of Brits) for the long term and if you want to be part of that then that's great.  I'm planning on using Slack to coordinate efforts.  I'll get a plan written down soon and let everyone know when it's ready, first I need to speak to some individuals.

[greenmo]

To create an additional "premine" on the chain, is the equivalent of banks printing money against thin air (quantitative easing) which is partly why the blockchain was invented to prevent that sort of behaviour.

Well, QE was something to bail out private banks, wasn't it?  We're talking about using Britcoins to pay to keep Britcoin running, maintained, and supported, which is more like the the BoE using some of the money they print to pay for petrol, printing presses, educational leaflets, whatever.  (Which is surely better than the BoE employees, including unpaid interns, having to pay for that from their own pockets!)

EDIT: Will start using the Britcoin3 account here from now on.

[will7am]

To create an additional "premine" on the chain, is the equivalent of banks printing money against thin air (quantitative easing) which is partly why the blockchain was invented to prevent that sort of behaviour.

Well, QE was something to bail out private banks, wasn't it?  We're talking about using Britcoins to pay to keep Britcoin running, maintained, and supported, which is more like the the BoE using some of the money they print to pay for petrol, printing presses, educational leaflets, whatever.  (Which is surely better than the BoE employees, including unpaid interns, having to pay for that from their own pockets!)

This.  Also increasing the PoS payouts is closer to QE than adding new coins, since just like QE the new coins will go in to the hands of those who have the most coin already.  At least if we mint 1m new coins we can have a plan in place as to where exactly those coins go and can track them via the blockchain.

To be honest if there was an exchange where I could buy 1m coins at the last price then I'd prolly do that and not add additional coins, but the fact is Brit has 0 volume.  So long term I don't think people will have a problem, especially considering I suspect over 3m-5m Brits have been lost since launching due to people forgetting about them or HD failures etc.

[gjhiggins]

Can you explain the "non-legal" rights of stakeholders?

I'm sorry but I can't parse the phrase ‘“non-legal” rights’, it’s an oxymoron, a contradiction in terms. Only law can confer “rights” and in the context of FOSS it only has one meaning, it refers to the intellectual property rights being ceded by the author of the code and imposes certain terms and conditions as detailed in the accompanying licence:

Code:

Copyright (c) 2014 BritCoin Developers

Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy
of this software and associated documentation files (the "Software"), to deal
in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights
to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell
copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is
furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions:

The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in
all copies or substantial portions of the Software.

THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR
IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY,
FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE
AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER
LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM,
OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN
THE SOFTWARE.

There are no rights accorded to purchasers of altcoins from cryptocurrency exchanges other than those detailed in the sales contract offered by the exchange and accepted by the purchaser. Do you have the receipt?

I am acutely aware of a variety of misconceptions abounding in the altcoin domain, one of which is a deeply misleading analogy with the tightly-regulated stocks/shares markets. The two are sharply different in a whole slew of crucial risk-assessment aspects.

I understand that you find the situation iniquitous, could I encourage you to understand that “getting in on the ground floor” is a story that appeals to speculators the world over, over and over again. “Easy money”, “Rake it in while you pick your nose and watch TV”, “It’s different this time”, “HODL!!”.

You have control over a chunk of the wealth of this coin. I think it’s a shame that your personal value system appears so impoverished as to compel you to assess this wealth in terms of an external, corrupt, hostile value system.

I don’t know whether the “THINK” comment was directed at me but may I reassure you that I have merely a passing interest in the coin (I share some of your opinions in different degrees) and only sought to dispel a misconception that might otherwise cost you dearly in unfavourable circumstances.

Cheers

Graham

[britcoin3]

CryptoBE, who had a block explorer for Britcoin back in the day, say they'll do us one without a richlist for Britcoin 3.0 at quite a discount for an old coin (because animalroam knows me from the piggyteam).  We can have a permanent one for 0.1 BTC or a 6-month one for 0.075 BTC.  I think we might as well only consider the permanent one.

(A block explorer runs a node with almost full uptime, which we really do need.  I'm trying to set one up on a cloud server now but have to leave off it for a while as it was spamming the TOR network.)

As for the Mac wallet, I think we can probably get one of those for GBP 20-25 -worth of Bitcoin from someone with a Mac who compiles wallets.

Anyone want to pay for these? :8]

Mo

[britcoin3]

Payment address for block explorer is on this page:
http://invoices.cryptobe.com/de456d3562d501aab31d6f5851c7e31d770ca952

They say they'll make it at 0.075 BTC and then give us a 2-week grace period to get it up to 0.1 BTC if we want to make it permanent.

_{Why no rich list?  It's a separate application they added afterwards and isn't optimised for a large number of blocks.}

[VanityWallets2015]

There are no rights accorded to purchasers of altcoins from cryptocurrency exchanges other than those detailed in the sales contract offered by the exchange and accepted by the purchaser. Do you have the receipt?

Cheers

Graham

Hi Graham, thanks. What I am merely suggesting is that just because the underlying software is open-source, the layer of IP (intellectual property) that is the coin configuration model, naming convention and brand as a combination are of significant value in the sector. Of course any additional development added to the blockchain basic Bitcoin source, e.g. proprietory development, also adds key value.

When I mentioned legal position, any government, or authority can apply legislation in retrospect to the detriment of, or the governance of a sector. So just because there is no legislation now it cannot be assumed that todays development will not be looked at in retrospect.

I'm not looking out for me as an individual, but for the team and investors, I just had a terrible experience with Colossuscoin where Cryptsy has 1.2 billion of my coins, however the team have decided to do Colossuscoin V2 and decided that despite me owning those they will not be providing me with the same amount from the new chain. I find this pretty disgusting, which is why i am saying that there will be regulations to protect consumers, in fact there already is, but people think because the software is open-source that people do not have any protection, remembering that anyone can fork the chain and take a community with it.

That's all I was trying to get across, (the think bit was just a general comment not directed at anyone in particular) if the team acts professional, and works in consensus I think it has a good chance of success.

To the other stuff;

Glad people have picked this up, I contacted Wil ages ago to do something, but I didn't have a budget for financial responsibility, so happy to support and contribute.

I can easily create a new website if needed. I will still run the Britcoin Revival and get people on the V3 blockchain once we have decided on a clear roadmap of development.

22 million coins is not really many at all - the value is not in the number of coins but in the community and its consumption, for example, DMD will have value because it is Diamond and its "brand" digital diamond would be valuable in this space (Most coin values are artificially valued anyway, the real value will only be visible upon mainstream adoption.)

Would people rather have 1 million Britcoins or 10 Britcoins? At the current issuance the max count is less than 0.5 Britcoin per person in the UK, I think it is unlikely that Britcoin will peer a 1:1 value with Bitcoin, depends on what everyone thinks on the coin supply.

If you want a better corporate roadmap and fasttrack uptake I would recommend;

- increasing to a high POS for a fixed period (as mentioned before)
- adding a "tail off" POW and smaller long term POS after the fixed high POS period (having both like DMD is a good idea)
- creating an "airdrop fund" where Britcoins are given to;
--- HM Treasury (airdrop a resonable supply per month)
--- World & British Banks (airdrop a smaller proportion as a one-off)
--- Charities (airdrop smaller proportions regularly)
- creating a direct purchase avenue (e.g. sell for £1.00 each, but buy back available at £0.75p) which will help keep coins in circ (uness exchanges are willing to add the coin)
- having multiple faucets (I will be running one just from my coin stake anyway)

* the airdrops are to encourage Britcoin as an investment vehicle for treasury money, bank money to stabilise and help regulate the coin. donating to charities would increase adoption as it would encourage them to accept Britcoin. Ultimately HM Treasury / BoE will most likely deliver their own digital vehicle but from a consensus perspective it would be valuable for all parties to work together to establish and deliver the brand. I suspect there are bumpy roads ahead but ultimately all money absorbed by digital currencies is fiat money from one location or another *

Hope that helps, I will contribute 0.01 BTC for the node, once we've decided on a route forward.

Good luck.

[will7am]

Payment address for block explorer is on this page:
http://invoices.cryptobe.com/de456d3562d501aab31d6f5851c7e31d770ca952

They say they'll make it at 0.075 BTC and then give us a 2-week grace period to get it up to 0.1 BTC if we want to make it permanent.

_{Why no rich list?  It's a separate application they added afterwards and isn't optimised for a large number of blocks.}

Just sent 0.025 BTC to get the ball rolling   Well done Mo, lets get the explorer online asap

[gjhiggins]

When I mentioned legal position, any government, or authority can apply legislation in retrospect to the detriment of, or the governance of a sector.

Ah, in your model HMG can retrospectively decree that some selectively-determined prior trades in Britcoin were illegal. We have quite different understandings of the issue. I take a substantial part of mine from http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN06454/SN06454.pdf


Cheers

Graham

[bhokor]

Hi all, someone knows if there are actually some bounty for creation of an unique paper wallet for this coin?, Original dev is not here since 2015 and he dont answer the PM´s, thanks in advanced

[greenmo]

Payment address for block explorer is on this page:
http://invoices.cryptobe.com/de456d3562d501aab31d6f5851c7e31d770ca952

They say they'll make it at 0.075 BTC and then give us a 2-week grace period to get it up to 0.1 BTC if we want to make it permanent.

_{Why no rich list?  It's a separate application they added afterwards and isn't optimised for a large number of blocks.}

Just sent 0.025 BTC to get the ball rolling

Looks like the amount on the invoice hasn't updated, but AnimalRoam tells me they have indeed received it :8]  He'll try to fix the invoice not updating if he can.

Hi all, someone knows if there are actually some bounty for creation of an unique paper wallet for this coin?, Original dev is not here since 2015 and he dont answer the PM´s, thanks in advanced

Not at the moment perhaps, but check back in a few weeks ;8]  Do you have a portfolio of work?

[animalroam]

New invoice is here: http://invoices.cryptobe.com/f913c4871c3cd5d62791d150886b99e32b025391

The previous deposit from the old invoice has been carried over.