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[coinrolls2]

scammer!!!

This seems to be all you have to say

I don't think there is any evidence that the OP is a scammer, whether investing in his/her operation is legal is another story.

CR

[1715113299]

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[Bitcoin Oz]

I hope this is allowed on GLBSE as it seems legal to me in comparison to the last guy that tried it. Good luck.

[bitcoinbear]

You keep talking about growing these plants indoors, why not put them outside in the sun where they belong? (sunlight is much cheaper than electricity for lighting, right?)

[WorldOfBitcoin]

The bigger picture*

Rather then investing in start up dispensary's (we already got a ton, more then Starbucks)

; dispensary's have the problem of not being allowed banking services. <This is recent! I used to use my credit card all the time at my old one.

accepting Credit card's, checking and saving accountants is very hard and almost all major banks refuse;

Dispensary's are left holding large amounts of cash and during raids they take big hits.

I think the real opportunity is to offer a completely cashless system. The only risk is lost product.

Using bitcoins would also give the customers an added layer of Anonymity then debit/credit as well.


***update Just got informed any FDIC bank is now officaily barred from doing business with dispensary's in Colorado  



http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2011/09/banks_refusing_to_deal_with_medical_marijuana_disp.php

http://www.denverpost.com/news/marijuana/ci_19016660

[isthisreallife]

Good luck to you Sir!

If I were you I'd change the thread title though... I was pretty sure I was clicking on yet another Pirate Piss Take thread.

I also second the idea of developing a bitcoin payment system for dispensaries, and would be keen to help anyone who takes up the challenge. Fuck the banks and their hypocrisy. They're happy to facilitate all sorts of morally dubious ventures, yet helping the sick is too much for them?

[bitcoinbear]

Good luck to you Sir!

If I were you I'd change the thread title though... I was pretty sure I was clicking on yet another Pirate Piss Take thread.

I also second the idea of developing a bitcoin payment system for dispensaries, and would be keen to help anyone who takes up the challenge. Fuck the banks and their hypocrisy. They're happy to facilitate all sorts of morally dubious ventures, yet helping the sick is too much for them?

I agree the title is crap, and should be more descriptive.

Bitcoins provides the perfect solution to the problem these people are facing. I would also say that now everybody knows they will have large amounts of cash on hand, so they will continue to be targets for theft, as well as anybody going in/out who must be carrying cash as well. Switching to bitcoins would reduce that risk.

[Nefario]

Hey Viceroy, everyone.

I think this is a really cool project which I'd like to see go ahead.

So after spending some time doing research and thinking about this I certainly don't think that this (as it is) is something that GLBSE could host as a project, it would be unfairly putting all assets listed on GLBSE at risk.

As Viceroy has said, this is being legalised in Colorado which lets face it, is awesome. The problem comes from the federal government and federal agencies.

If GLBSE was a Colorado registered business then there wouldn't be any problem with this, but since we're registering in the UK very soon this is not the case. A company registered and operating in Colorado would have the protection of the state as long as it follows state rules.

Something like GLBSE, which operates from outside the US would get swatted down by the FBI (and several other federal agencies, ICE maybe?) so fast, and I'd end up being extradited to Washington to be prosecuted as a drug lord (ok not this bad but you get the idea).

The level of risk/reward for this project seems to be sufficiently high that it would merit it's own website, OK it wouldn't be a market that would allow investors to move out if they wanted to but could allow the management of many small investors for the long term.

I would recommend having one person from the project sell bonds, i.e. make a very large personal loan with many many smaller investors, and then as the single person invest the funds. You don't need a market to do this.

Thinking about it some more, we wouldn't even be able to allow pass through bonds, due to the danger of being taken down as a source of funding for federally illegal drugs production.

Nefario.

[bitcoinbear]

Much better title, thanks for changing it.

I would recommend having one person from the project sell bonds, i.e. make a very large personal loan with many many smaller investors, and then as the single person invest the funds. You don't need a market to do this.

Thinking about it some more, we wouldn't even be able to allow pass through bonds, due to the danger of being taken down as a source of funding for federally illegal drugs production.

Nefario.

Could one person offer bonds and hint hint nudge nudge wink wink, invest the procedes into a "high return business" thus bypassing the restrictions, or by asking this question am I ruling that possibility out for everybody?

[Nefario]

Much better title, thanks for changing it.

I would recommend having one person from the project sell bonds, i.e. make a very large personal loan with many many smaller investors, and then as the single person invest the funds. You don't need a market to do this.

Thinking about it some more, we wouldn't even be able to allow pass through bonds, due to the danger of being taken down as a source of funding for federally illegal drugs production.

Nefario.

Could one person offer bonds and hint hint nudge nudge wink wink, invest the proceedes into a "high return business" thus bypassing the restrictions, or by asking this question am I ruling that possibility out for everybody?

I know what you mean, I still think it's a bad idea(not specifying what funds are being used for leaves the asset open to abuse).

Really the best thing to do is have someone who is in Colorado (and therefor under state protection) do the borrowing and lending(set up a site in Colorado), anyone else is going to become a target for the feds, and if they're on GLBSE then will make that a target too.

[Bitcoin Oz]

Much better title, thanks for changing it.

I would recommend having one person from the project sell bonds, i.e. make a very large personal loan with many many smaller investors, and then as the single person invest the funds. You don't need a market to do this.

Thinking about it some more, we wouldn't even be able to allow pass through bonds, due to the danger of being taken down as a source of funding for federally illegal drugs production.

Nefario.

Could one person offer bonds and hint hint nudge nudge wink wink, invest the procedes into a "high return business" thus bypassing the restrictions, or by asking this question am I ruling that possibility out for everybody?

Of course. But that defeats the purpose and people would just claim you are running a ponzi with no business model because you cant state at all what the bond is for and thus would get very few investors imo.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=105437.0  is a better way to manage it.

[Nefario]

Much better title, thanks for changing it.

I would recommend having one person from the project sell bonds, i.e. make a very large personal loan with many many smaller investors, and then as the single person invest the funds. You don't need a market to do this.

Thinking about it some more, we wouldn't even be able to allow pass through bonds, due to the danger of being taken down as a source of funding for federally illegal drugs production.

Nefario.

Could one person offer bonds and hint hint nudge nudge wink wink, invest the procedes into a "high return business" thus bypassing the restrictions, or by asking this question am I ruling that possibility out for everybody?

Of course. But that defeats the purpose and people would just claim you are running a ponzi with no business model because you cant state at all what the bond is for and thus would get very few investors imo.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=105437.0  is a better way to manage it.

Quite possibly.

[btctraderr]

Interesting idea, since GLBSE is a no go, what is next for smaller investors? What kind of returns are you targeting? How do you seek to achieve this? Need numbers, dates, timelines for many in the bitcoin community to consider it for large investments. I don;t see what you've got to loose by being transparent with your business plan- and such an effort would give alot of credibility to the cause.

[phungus]

"What about the use of Aquaponics?"

The AeroFlo system is as close as we want to get at this time it is part hydroponic, part nutrient film technique, part aeroponic. 

Aquaponics (growing vegatable matter and fish in one system) is AWESOME but not ideal for this purpose.  There is no reason for us to grow fish and doing so takes up floor space that could be used for more profitable operations.  We are not trying to feed the world but instead trying to turn a large profit based on black-market pricing before prohibition ends. 

If you did some experimentation, you might find that the fish more than make up for themselves in fertilizer, soil ammendment, and material costs, and also possibly labor due to not having to move huge volumes of soil around. It takes lots of guys to fill up pots and mix large quantities of soil, transplant plants, etc. An aquaponics operation simplifies a lot of this in the same way hydroponics can.

I wouldn't rule it out.

Nor would I rule out fish as a secondary market, especially in the land-locked / semi-desert areas of Southern Colorado (and neighboring states).


You will need a plan to recycle your soil properly.


p

[phungus]

You keep talking about growing these plants indoors, why not put them outside in the sun where they belong? (sunlight is much cheaper than electricity for lighting, right?)

Sunlight is MUCH cheaper than $35 per light per pound per month it is true.  Of course at a thousands of dollars per pound putting this grow outdoors is not really a viable option.  There are several issues with outdoor growing including:
1. Security is harder to enforce in an open field than behind locked doors.
2. Taunting the DEA by growing acres of marijuana outdoors is not going to do any good.
3. Plants grown outdoors are at the mercy of mother nature where they are regularly exposed to pests and pathogens.
4. Colorado is in the middle of a MASSIVE multi-year drought.
5. Unlike other plants cannabis plants have a gender, they are female and exposing them to pollen will destroy the plant.
6. Growing outdoors takes longer than growing indoors and is not an efficient use of space. (4-6 cycles for indoor vs 1 cycle).
7. Outdoor grown marijuana is lower quality than indoor by every standard measure.
8. You cannot grow outdoors in Colorado in the winter so you would have NO production for half the year.

A large, well built greenhouse with a properly designed and installed subterranean heating and cooling system would negate nearly all of your concerns and is done every day in many parts of the world in all seasons.

p

[RodeoX]

This could be really risky/profitable.  I'm going to do some homework this weekend.

[bitcoinbear]

Would solar power give a return on investment on the power costs? Also, do LED lights offer any benefits in the real world? I hear all kinds of claims for them and it's hard to filter out the snake oil merchants

I would think LED lights would have a different spectrum which might not match up with the optimal for plants. Maybe you could engineer an LED light to the absorption wavelength of chlorophyl? You would essentially have the most efficient grow light!

[dank]

LED's are capable of growing quality cannabis, you need a few different spectrums, but they aren't really capable of growing large amounts.  Specially for the price.

[dank]

LED's are capable of growing quality cannabis, you need a few different spectrums, but they aren't really capable of growing large amounts.  Specially for the price.

Yep, that about says it.  I believe the future is LED lighting, not the "UFO" but more sophisticated multi-watt bulb systems.  The idea is that plants do not need the entire spectrum they only need a few wavelengths.  Reports in the industry show that LEDs work well for the vegetative phase but not for flowering.  Compare LED's to a big fat sodium lamp and you will see that LED is FAR more efficient.  

This all came from NASA who grew vegatables in space using LED lights which produce less heat as they are so much more efficient.  The problem is the necessary spectrum is not well known and larger multi-watt LED bulbs are still relatively new.

To the question about Solar... solar never works.  It costs far too much to install solar panels.  A typical home might need a $20-30,000 array and that only covers a few thousand watts.  We need hundreds of thousands of watts.  Interestingly in Boulder medical marijuana facilities are required to use electricity, in part, from renewable sources.  Can you imagine the outrage that would cause in any "standard" industry?  

Businessman:
No I WILL NOT PUT $1,000,000 in SOLAR PANELS ON THE ROOF OF MY GROCERY STORE

Boulder City Council:
Then you cannot be here

Businessman:
Then people in Boulder will need to drive 45 minutes to Denver to shop. (leaves in a huff).

Have you considered using some of your cannabis for biodiesel hemp fuel?  You'll get more energy out of it if you use nicely grown flowers rather than hemp.

[dank]

Hemp IS the same plant but hemp has been bred to grow fast and tall and create a fibrous, almost bamboo like, tree.  In the process of breeding one unintended result is that the THC largely disappeared from the plant.  (THC is the chemical that gets you HIGH).  So hemp will not get you high, so it makes little sense that it is illegal... but it is.  There is a federal law against all cannabis sativa, hemp and the kind that gets you high.  Colorado is in the process of overturning these antiquated laws but even when they do it won't make sense.  Hemp is grown in China, they are the largest producer of it.  There is no viable way to compete against Chinese hemp farmers.

Oil is made from seeds (hemp, pot, whatever).  The seeds are pressed and oil comes out.  Seeds are not what you want in medical cannabis, when the plant goes to seed the THC decreases significantly.  So yes seeds can be made into oil, but you'd need to compete with the Chinese which is almost impossible until they demand living wages.

As a point of interest when Henry Ford invented the Model T it was designed with "plastic" hemp body panels and it was designed to run on hemp based bio-deisel.  Here's a link: http://rense.com/general67/FORD.HTM

I don't mean hemp seed oil, I mean use the whole plant to make cannabis biodeisel.  I've read hemp is good for biodeisel but fully flowered plants will give you more energy.  It'd be cool if you could grow some weed for fuel and use it in generators, sorta like a perpetual energy machine.  Would have to look at the numbers.

[dank]

You need to move here and join us in Colorado.  Happy to experiment but I can tell you that there is not yet any way to grow that much hemp in the US without the Fed shutting you down (you'd need hundreds of acres).  This year Colorado passed a law to allow for experimentation with "remediation" and hemp.  We are going to do a multi-year study to determine the efficacy of using hemp to remove harmful pollutants from dirt.  Hemp is an amazing plant. 

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2012/05/marijuana_industrial_hemp_stud.php

It'd be interesting to see how much energy you can turn out with a couple good plants, I'm sure it couldn't power the facility but I wouldn't be surprised the slightest if it outperforms solar energy.

You should add mycelium to the study.