A bitcoin miner in every hand

[alh]

It looks like BitFury has beaten 21Inc to the "light bulb division" and that Sfards will take over the "Lava Lamp division", and all without any obvious $116 Million VC money.

21Inc better get cracking or the only thing left will be the "Toaster division"....  

I wonder if BitFury's lamp will have user configurable mining or not?

[1714652267]

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[JorgeStolfi]

It looks like BitFury has beaten 21Inc to the "light buld division" and that Sfards will take over the "Lava Lamp division", and all without any obvious $116 Million VC money.

They better get cracking or the only thing left will be the "toaster division".... 

I wonder if BitFury's lamp will have user configurable mining or not?

A more interesting question is: if Joe Plumber has to choose between an ordinary lamp and a BitFury mining lamp, which one should he pick, and why?

[s1gs3gv]

Profile on one of 21 inc's investors Vinod Khosla http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/vinod-khosla-be-wary-stupid-advice

[alh]

Profile on one of 21 inc's investors Vinod Khosla http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/vinod-khosla-be-wary-stupid-advice

I won't argue that the pedigree of the investors isn't impressive, way more than mine. What I am interested in though is what 21 Inc actually does.

[s1gs3gv]

Profile on one of 21 inc's investors Vinod Khosla http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/vinod-khosla-be-wary-stupid-advice

I won't argue that the pedigree of the investors isn't impressive, way more than mine. What I am interested in though is what 21 Inc actually does.

It almost doesn't matter. The large investments in 21 inc and presence of firms like Khosla's and Andreessen's are a tell, a bit like that volume spike on a coin's OHLC chart a few days ago …

The IOT with integrated micro mining will be like any other new and promising field .. it will develop at first by fits and starts and you'll have your Netscapes and Alta Vistas and eventually a Google and a Facebook will emerge. 21 may or may not become successful but their funding signals that this is going to happen and it is going to be big.

Time to start building your killer apps for the platform

[JLynn171]

https://medium.com/@21dotco/a-bitcoin-miner-in-every-device-and-in-every-hand-e315b40f2821

Will it fly ?

It seems like a article just to get them publicity.  We are so far from in every hand, we need a lot more exposure.

And in every device just will never happen.  Some devices would be great other devices make no sense.  Like something you want longer battery life on... you would not put a miner in it.

You dont think technology will be able to overcome short battery life on devices? i Figured we would already have overcome this small step, but the constant flow of data and the heat caused by would mean alot of these devices have short lifespan which would mean more turn around on replacements and even more money in big companies pockets...

Sure they could put bigger batteries.  But most likely having a miner in your pocket all day does not seem like ideal product.

Do you honestly believe every device makes sense being a miner?

Exactly I don't believe this will happen, just 2 days back I read a guy reporting that he almost fried his Laptop when he tried solo mining and he let it run for 4 hours and it got extremely hot.
 
And if laptops can't take the heat from mining how will phone be able to resist that, I think the phones might blast, if someone tries to do that.

ya laptops arent really made for todays mining

[notlist3d]

https://medium.com/@21dotco/a-bitcoin-miner-in-every-device-and-in-every-hand-e315b40f2821

Will it fly ?

It seems like a article just to get them publicity.  We are so far from in every hand, we need a lot more exposure.

And in every device just will never happen.  Some devices would be great other devices make no sense.  Like something you want longer battery life on... you would not put a miner in it.

You dont think technology will be able to overcome short battery life on devices? i Figured we would already have overcome this small step, but the constant flow of data and the heat caused by would mean alot of these devices have short lifespan which would mean more turn around on replacements and even more money in big companies pockets...

Sure they could put bigger batteries.  But most likely having a miner in your pocket all day does not seem like ideal product.

Do you honestly believe every device makes sense being a miner?

Exactly I don't believe this will happen, just 2 days back I read a guy reporting that he almost fried his Laptop when he tried solo mining and he let it run for 4 hours and it got extremely hot.
 
And if laptops can't take the heat from mining how will phone be able to resist that, I think the phones might blast, if someone tries to do that.

ya laptops arent really made for todays mining

They never were really meant for it.  You have a limited airflow it can get hot depending on laptop.  Turn processor or GPU up on high intensity bad things can happen.

And worst thing is unlike a desktop you cant RMA part's.  Most of time laptops have to be sent in whole.  So means you use access.  In day's of GPU's it was common to clock one to high or use it to long and need to get a RMA.

Asics have simplified things a lot as far as equipment.

[SebastianJu]

https://medium.com/@21dotco/a-bitcoin-miner-in-every-device-and-in-every-hand-e315b40f2821

Will it fly ?

It seems like a article just to get them publicity.  We are so far from in every hand, we need a lot more exposure.

And in every device just will never happen.  Some devices would be great other devices make no sense.  Like something you want longer battery life on... you would not put a miner in it.

You dont think technology will be able to overcome short battery life on devices? i Figured we would already have overcome this small step, but the constant flow of data and the heat caused by would mean alot of these devices have short lifespan which would mean more turn around on replacements and even more money in big companies pockets...

Sure they could put bigger batteries.  But most likely having a miner in your pocket all day does not seem like ideal product.

Do you honestly believe every device makes sense being a miner?

Exactly I don't believe this will happen, just 2 days back I read a guy reporting that he almost fried his Laptop when he tried solo mining and he let it run for 4 hours and it got extremely hot.
 
And if laptops can't take the heat from mining how will phone be able to resist that, I think the phones might blast, if someone tries to do that.

ya laptops arent really made for todays mining

They never were really meant for it.  You have a limited airflow it can get hot depending on laptop.  Turn processor or GPU up on high intensity bad things can happen.

And worst thing is unlike a desktop you cant RMA part's.  Most of time laptops have to be sent in whole.  So means you use access.  In day's of GPU's it was common to clock one to high or use it to long and need to get a RMA.

Asics have simplified things a lot as far as equipment.

I think its a myth that you cant exchange parts on your notebook. I already changed mainboards on two different notebook models i owned. No problems. And other parts, like exchanging GPU to a bigger one, RAM and so on arent difficult. Whats correct is that youre limited at how much you can upgrade.

21 is stilly a mystery for me. I fear it will be bad for bitcoin because people will feel scammed. But ill give them the benefit of the doubt.

[JorgeStolfi]

Still no information about the hashpower and consumption of the 21.co chips?

Usually, when a company hides "strategic" data, it is because the data is disappointing, or worse...

[brontosaurus]

Still no information about the hashpower and consumption of the 21.co chips?

Usually, when a company hides "strategic" data, it is because the data is disappointing, or worse...

Their 14nm effort is apparently targeted to 0.15 J/(Gh/sec) at chip level at rated speed. Since 14nm gives roughly 50% power reduction versus a 28nm design then they're still using a cell based approach, ie it's nothing new. It's fine if you're playing with someone else's money and they have very deep pockets, there's 40nm designs that will do much better than this.

Not that it's important - this is just another in a long line of hyped up projects where it doesn't matter if they fail as long as the initial investors get their return when the inevitable IPO hits the stock market.

[RoadStress]

Still no information about the hashpower and consumption of the 21.co chips?

Usually, when a company hides "strategic" data, it is because the data is disappointing, or worse...

Since they are not selling miners to the public why should they make public their chips tech data? Their plan is to sell appliances, not mining chips.

[alh]

Besides, why worry about additional public disclosures? It seems like they already got their $116 million. What more is there to gain from additional disclosure? If we see more it may be because they are trolling for more money.

[s1gs3gv]

IOT market to triple to $USD 1.7 Trillion by 2020

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/internet-things-market-triple-1-140200967.html

[jimmothy]

IOT market to triple to $USD 1.7 Trillion by 2020

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/internet-things-market-triple-1-140200967.html

IOT = good idea*

Inefficient/expensive miner in everything = bad idea

*specifically non-21 inc related ideas. Everything I've heard from 21 inc seems like a poorly thought out solution to a nonexistent problem.

[s1gs3gv]

IOT market to triple to $USD 1.7 Trillion by 2020

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/internet-things-market-triple-1-140200967.html

IOT = good idea*

Inefficient/expensive miner in everything = bad idea

*specifically non-21 inc related ideas. Everything I've heard from 21 inc seems like a poorly thought out solution to a nonexistent problem.

Thats funny jimmothy. I think IOT is a bad idea and micro-mining is a good idea.

IOT is a bad idea because there are significant security issues with existing software and hardware infrastructure that need fixed before we start putting more 'things' on the internet. As an illustration of this thesis, visit DARPA's Cyber Grand Challenge at http://www.cybergrandchallenge.com where they begin by explaining:

With the coming advent of the Internet of Things, data insecurity is on track to become physical insecurity. The same code that powers today’s networked computers – code that is routinely compromised by attackers – is making its way into our vehicles, our smart homes, our augmented reality, and our connected culture. This future requires fundamentally new thinking about how networked devices will be defended.

Micro-mining is a good idea because it will decentralize the network, disenfranchise big players like KNC and enfranchise people who don't currently participate. As an illustration of how seriously people take this thesis, you need look no further than the amount of money 21 inc. has raised and the quality of their investors.

[JorgeStolfi]

Leaked image of a 21.co household appliance with embedded mining chip

(This is only a low-power protopype with Wifi, NFC, Bluetooth, and USB. The production version will have also G3/G4, HDMI, and a power plug rated 30A.)

[jimmothy]

IOT market to triple to $USD 1.7 Trillion by 2020

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/internet-things-market-triple-1-140200967.html

IOT = good idea*

Inefficient/expensive miner in everything = bad idea

*specifically non-21 inc related ideas. Everything I've heard from 21 inc seems like a poorly thought out solution to a nonexistent problem.

Thats funny jimmothy. I think IOT is a bad idea and micro-mining is a good idea.

IOT is a bad idea because there are significant security issues with existing software and hardware infrastructure that need fixed before we start putting more 'things' on the internet. As an illustration of this thesis, visit DARPA's Cyber Grand Challenge at http://www.cybergrandchallenge.com where they begin by explaining:

With the coming advent of the Internet of Things, data insecurity is on track to become physical insecurity. The same code that powers today’s networked computers – code that is routinely compromised by attackers – is making its way into our vehicles, our smart homes, our augmented reality, and our connected culture. This future requires fundamentally new thinking about how networked devices will be defended.

Your opinions are contradictory.

If IOT devices are insecure, so are microminers (since they are just IOT + bloatware miners).

The IOT however isn't the backbone for a multibillion dollar transaction network, so a hack, although might cause inconveniences, is not really a big deal. On the other hand a hack of 21 inc's army of microminers could be catastrophic. I think we can all agree that a hacker is infinitely more likely to attempt a 51% attack than a company who has invested tens of millions into bitcoin/mining.

Micro-mining is a good idea because it will decentralize the network, disenfranchise big players like KNC and enfranchise people who don't currently participate.

Firstly, 21 inc's plan won't be decentralized. They've already said all the miners will be using their pool. Most likely all btc will be stored on their servers to avoid dust clogging up the blockchain.

Secondly, you keep pretending that micromining will somehow remain competitive.  Rebranding home mining as "micromining" and unnecessarily adding costs/inefficiencies/gimmicks doesn't magically make it more profitable.

As an illustration of how seriously people take this thesis, you need look no further than the amount of money 21 inc. has raised and the quality of their investors.

CueCat raised $180 million from equally high profile investors/companies and the end result was "fails to solve a problem which never existed". Sounds exactly like 21 inc.

[alh]

Micro-mining is a good idea because it will decentralize the network, disenfranchise big players like KNC and enfranchise people who don't currently participate. As an illustration of how seriously people take this thesis, you need look no further than the amount of money 21 inc. has raised and the quality of their investors.

This is only true if the micro miners select a variety of pools, and not just the inevitable 21 Inc. pool. If the 1 million micro miners are all part of a single pool, then all you have done is distribute the hardware, and done nothing to decentralize the network. It's the number of reasonable sized pools that matter not the number of physical bits of mining hardware (IMHO).

I am always curious about peoples perceptions on what it means to be decentralized. To me, ten roughly equal sized pools is decentralized, even if they all ran the exact same type of hardware. Some folks seem to think that sheer number of mining hardware units does it (e.g. the micro miners). I am also curious as to the reasons behind the rabid desire for a decentralized network.

I too am not keen on "The Internet of Things" concept in general. Although, it will no doubt accelerate the push to IPv6 in my opinion.

[s1gs3gv]

Your opinions are contradictory.

Not at all. Your understanding is incomplete. We've both clearly expressed our views. Lets see how things play out

[s1gs3gv]

This is only true if the micro miners select a variety of pools, and not just the inevitable 21 Inc. pool. If the 1 million micro miners are all part of a single pool, then all you have done is distribute the hardware, and done nothing to decentralize the network. It's the number of reasonable sized pools that matter not the number of physical bits of mining hardware (IMHO).

Of course.