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Author Topic: How to choose a coin to mine?  (Read 2651 times)
Grout (OP)
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May 20, 2015, 02:00:59 PM
Last edit: May 20, 2015, 02:17:30 PM by Grout
 #1

Hi,

I've been encouraged (well, not that nicely, but I choose to take the positive part of the message) to do my research and choose a coin instead of just putting my rig for rent for others to use.

As a newcomer, this is a daunting task. There are hundreds of coins out there, each with their ecosystem, technology and specificity, and the usual trail of misinformation, FUD and general trolliness that you find in a tech environment, especially since money is involved. Some people want to keep this game for 'people in the know'. Some believe so much in their coin they trash everyone else. Some voluntarily spread misinformation for their own gain.

I just spent a few hours on cryptsy, trying to get a feel of the evolution of a coin's value, compared to BTC. There is a clear pattern for the majority of altcoins: a meteoric rise at launch thanks to the hype, the occasional pump and dump, and a stabilization later at a low value. This information doesn't really help to choose a coin, but it can help to avoid one. You don't want to pick a coin just because it has a great value during a pump and dump.

So what are good criterias to pick a coin to mine (remember, this is from a miner's perspective, not a trader's)?
- Technology. This is the one that naturally attracts me the most because it hits closest to home. But a good technical base isn't everything. We see shitty products with great hype everyday, and great products struggling because of bad PR. That's marketing 101.
- Community. If the coin has a good community, you can hope it will last, maybe?
- Ecosystem. What can you actually do with that coin, apart from trading it for others?
- Pure technical analysis comparing the coin's difficulty, your hashrate on that algo and the coin's value. This is basically what autoswitch/autoconvert multipools do. So I don't really see the point of doing the same thing just to avoid a few % fees.
- Comparison sites like whattomine? At first glance, it doesn't list any Quark coin, which seem to be - by far - the most profitable algo at the moment. So... not a great start.
- Diversify with a site like hamsterpool. Mining several coins and holding them, hoping one will succeed?

I will systematically ignore posts that are off-topic or non-constructive, and I encourage everyone to do the same. Also try to avoid posts that just say 'you are wrong' without adding anything to the conversation. Let's keep this thread on topic: How do you choose a coin to mine?
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May 20, 2015, 02:17:58 PM
 #2

I just wonna say that if you plan to mine a coin and wait for it to rise in value, then you'd better buy it and save the hassle.
If you have a good margin on mining, which happens to the few people who can optimize the miner themselves or have very low electricity cost, then mine the coin with better margin, sell it for BTC and back to point one.

Or

You are a believer and you mine a coin to help with its network; in this case you shouldn't care about profits etc.

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May 20, 2015, 04:26:19 PM
 #3

Hi,

I've been encouraged (well, not that nicely, but I choose to take the positive part of the message) to do my research and choose a coin instead of just putting my rig for rent for others to use.

As a newcomer, this is a daunting task. There are hundreds of coins out there, each with their ecosystem, technology and specificity, and the usual trail of misinformation, FUD and general trolliness that you find in a tech environment, especially since money is involved. Some people want to keep this game for 'people in the know'. Some believe so much in their coin they trash everyone else. Some voluntarily spread misinformation for their own gain.

I just spent a few hours on cryptsy, trying to get a feel of the evolution of a coin's value, compared to BTC. There is a clear pattern for the majority of altcoins: a meteoric rise at launch thanks to the hype, the occasional pump and dump, and a stabilization later at a low value. This information doesn't really help to choose a coin, but it can help to avoid one. You don't want to pick a coin just because it has a great value during a pump and dump.

So what are good criterias to pick a coin to mine (remember, this is from a miner's perspective, not a trader's)?
- Technology. This is the one that naturally attracts me the most because it hits closest to home. But a good technical base isn't everything. We see shitty products with great hype everyday, and great products struggling because of bad PR. That's marketing 101.
- Community. If the coin has a good community, you can hope it will last, maybe?
- Ecosystem. What can you actually do with that coin, apart from trading it for others?
- Pure technical analysis comparing the coin's difficulty, your hashrate on that algo and the coin's value. This is basically what autoswitch/autoconvert multipools do. So I don't really see the point of doing the same thing just to avoid a few % fees.
- Comparison sites like whattomine? At first glance, it doesn't list any Quark coin, which seem to be - by far - the most profitable algo at the moment. So... not a great start.
- Diversify with a site like hamsterpool. Mining several coins and holding them, hoping one will succeed?

I will systematically ignore posts that are off-topic or non-constructive, and I encourage everyone to do the same. Also try to avoid posts that just say 'you are wrong' without adding anything to the conversation. Let's keep this thread on topic: How do you choose a coin to mine?

The following rant drifted off from the main question in the subject line, buit I guess the
short answer is whatever is most profitable at the moment.

The process for investing in a coin is very similar to choosing a stock and basicaly depends on your investment
goals.

If you want to pick a new altcoin for the purpose of holding it for the long term you really need to invest a lot of
time doing your homework. It's a lot more difficult than picking a stock. Stock trading is heavilly regulated and
requires companies to file reems of docunebts about the company's assets and operations. There is no such
documentation crypto coins.

The lack of regulation also attracts a certain sub-class of people who don't like to play by the rules. Although
pump and dump schemes are common in the stock market the scammers have a much easier time in crypto.

Most long term stock investors buy large established stable companies with predictable growth and steady income.
There aren't any crypto coins that even come close. 

Another factor to consider is what can you buy with the coin. Well not much. You can play poker and go shopping
on the silk road but that's about it right now. I haven't seen any take up by online retailers. In fact a local pub
hosting the only Bitcoin ATM in town stopped accepting BTC for beer purchases. Very sad.

That doesn't leave a lot of ways to invest in crypto. Whether mining or buying on an exchange the fact remains
what do you do with the coins once you acquire them? you could choose to hold the largest, most established
coin but that is still highly speculative. You could trade in and out of fiat or altcoins based on technical analysis.
There isn't any fundamental analysis possible due to the lack of verifiable information.

Considering the typical lifecycle of most coins, as you noted, the sweet spot is when a coin is new. The
obvious strategy is to mine and instadump before the initial hysteria wears off. This is what multipools
excell at, except that the time between mining and exchanging coins results in a reduction in payout.
 
It's a lot of work to keep on top of every new coin that gets released, setting up a wallet, making
sure there is an exchange where you can trade it, determining which coins have better mining payouts, etc.

I don't mind paying a fee for someone else to do all that work. This reduces my time investment but not my
profit because time is money.

We all hope that crypto catches on in the real world but even if it does I don't see a future for altcoins. At most
I see 2 or 3 coins possibly rising up and becoming mainstream.

Online electronics retailers should be at the forefront of crypto currency adoption. They already have a large
geek client base and provide a gateway between the geek world and mainstream. But how would they manage
currency exchange? They don't have to now because the credit card companies take care or if. Any mainstream
acceptance of crypto currency would require buyin from banks and credit card companies and that would
attract the attention of government regulators which could be both good and bad. Will it ever happen? Who knows?

And one final note, don't forget about the tulips.


AKA JayDDee, cpuminer-opt developer. https://github.com/JayDDee/cpuminer-opt
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5226770.msg53865575#msg53865575
BTC: 12tdvfF7KmAsihBXQXynT6E6th2c2pByTT,
Grout (OP)
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May 20, 2015, 08:12:25 PM
 #4

The following rant drifted off from the main question in the subject line, buit I guess the
short answer is whatever is most profitable at the moment.

...snip...

It's a lot of work to keep on top of every new coin that gets released, setting up a wallet, making
sure there is an exchange where you can trade it, determining which coins have better mining payouts, etc.

I don't mind paying a fee for someone else to do all that work. This reduces my time investment but not my
profit because time is money.

So, if I understand correctly, you think no altcoin is a valid long-term investment and you advocate for immediate profitability. As you stated, there isn't much research needed for that: multipools do it for you. And if the profit difference really is minimal, there is indeed no reason to spend tens of hours in research. I didn't read anything about what you think makes a coin good, though. Maybe you think none of them is?

Maybe a good strategy would be to mine a coin _before_ it is on any exchange, and the difficulty is low, and then dump it during the initial spike. That doesn't help the coin one bit, but it might be a good way to make a buck.

But that's one point of view. I'd like to hear from people who think there are good altcoins, and what makes a good coin.
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May 20, 2015, 09:14:08 PM
 #5

The following rant drifted off from the main question in the subject line, buit I guess the
short answer is whatever is most profitable at the moment.

...snip...

It's a lot of work to keep on top of every new coin that gets released, setting up a wallet, making
sure there is an exchange where you can trade it, determining which coins have better mining payouts, etc.

I don't mind paying a fee for someone else to do all that work. This reduces my time investment but not my
profit because time is money.

So, if I understand correctly, you think no altcoin is a valid long-term investment and you advocate for immediate profitability. As you stated, there isn't much research needed for that: multipools do it for you. And if the profit difference really is minimal, there is indeed no reason to spend tens of hours in research. I didn't read anything about what you think makes a coin good, though. Maybe you think none of them is?

Maybe a good strategy would be to mine a coin _before_ it is on any exchange, and the difficulty is low, and then dump it during the initial spike. That doesn't help the coin one bit, but it might be a good way to make a buck.
This is in general the best strategy as the difficulty is lower, however not all coins become successful either...
Yeah that Joblo guy don't give a shit about altcoins or even bitcoin with his argument from 2 years ago  Grin and at some point I don't even understand what he is doing around... (as said on the other thread  said he is probably a sockpuppet account from a multipool )

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BTC: 1NENYmxwZGHsKFmyjTc5WferTn5VTFb7Ze
Pledge for neoscrypt ccminer to that address: 16UoC4DmTz2pvhFvcfTQrzkPTrXkWijzXw
joblo
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May 20, 2015, 09:43:46 PM
 #6


So, if I understand correctly, you think no altcoin is a valid long-term investment and you advocate for immediate profitability. As you stated, there isn't much research needed for that: multipools do it for you. And if the profit difference really is minimal, there is indeed no reason to spend tens of hours in research. I didn't read anything about what you think makes a [Suspicious link removed]d, though. Maybe you think none of them is?


Essentiallly what makes an altcoin, any crypto currency, good is acceptance and the ability to grow into a mainstream currency.
If the market can only support a small number of such coins the odds are stacked way against the hundreds of altcoins
that exist.

It reminds me in some ways of the highly speculative junior mining industry here in Canada. There is a stock exchange
that caters specifically to them with looser regulation and financial requirements. It's full of "corporations" that are
nothing more that a guy that owns some property that might have gold on it. They have no operations and often no
exploration of any kind, they are essentially dormant stake holders. They are also targets of pumpers but that's
beside the point.

Most of these junior mining properties' only hope is that gold will be found nearby and some operating gold mining
company will buy them out. They never have a hope of ever becoming an operating mine on their own.

A similar phenomenon occurred during the dot com bubble of the late 1990s. Tech startups with no revenue and just
a geek with an idea were going public just so they could get bought out by one of the big guys. It got so competitive
companies were buying out startups just to prevent their competition from getting them.

I don't see that kind of opportunity with altcoins. Is Bitcoin going to buyout DASH so they can implement anonymous
transactions? I don't think so. The only way the flooded market will thin out is for the weak to just fade away.

Now I'll actually try to answer your question. What makes a [Suspicious link removed]d, or have potential to grow and become
relevant. I won't pretend to have any insight on this but a few things come to mind. I assume legitimacy is
a given, no shit coins.

Essential features such as the previously mentioned anonymous transaction support, more robust blockchain
that is more resistant to forking, double spends,  51% attacks, etc, faster confirmations without sacrificing security, etc.
There are also convenience features like messaging support that could be appealing to some.

I don't know if it makes any difference but some backing or linkage to physical assets. URO amd Amber come to
mind as attempts to do that. I read that Amber actually paid out dividends recently.

Strong marketing to get the coin accepted by financial institutions, merchants and the public. This requires a
strong management team which seems counter to the concept of decentralization.

And last, but not least, competitive mining returns.

That last one is the only one that applies to mining. The others apply regardless of how the coins are acquired.

Acceptance by the establishment is a bit of a wedge issue with many preferring crypto remain underground.
It can only do that by remaining small and irrelevent. Darkcoin chose to "sell out to the man" so to speak
when they changed their name to DASH. Ultimately they had no choice if they wanted to grow beyond the
darkweb. Time will tell it it is successful.

These are essentially the things I would consider to mine and hold for the long term. I would also like to see
significant market cap and trading volume but that's not to be found in a new coin. And that's why I don't hold
new coins.


AKA JayDDee, cpuminer-opt developer. https://github.com/JayDDee/cpuminer-opt
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5226770.msg53865575#msg53865575
BTC: 12tdvfF7KmAsihBXQXynT6E6th2c2pByTT,
solstoce
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May 20, 2015, 10:10:43 PM
 #7

I have my pool do it for me.
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May 21, 2015, 02:44:10 AM
 #8

I just wonna say that if you plan to mine a coin and wait for it to rise in value, then you'd better buy it and save the hassle.
If you have a good margin on mining, which happens to the few people who can optimize the miner themselves or have very low electricity cost, then mine the coin with better margin, sell it for BTC and back to point one.

Or

You are a believer and you mine a coin to help with its network; in this case you shouldn't care about profits etc.

agreed with this

PenguinFire
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May 21, 2015, 02:54:58 AM
 #9

I just wonna say that if you plan to mine a coin and wait for it to rise in value, then you'd better buy it and save the hassle.
If you have a good margin on mining, which happens to the few people who can optimize the miner themselves or have very low electricity cost, then mine the coin with better margin, sell it for BTC and back to point one.

Or

You are a believer and you mine a coin to help with its network; in this case you shouldn't care about profits etc.

agreed with this

But like what if an alt coin had the growing power Bitcoin did and does?  Even shitty, slow mining would bring in enough to make it worth the time and effort, right? 

kevin1234a
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May 21, 2015, 02:56:54 AM
 #10

I just wonna say that if you plan to mine a coin and wait for it to rise in value, then you'd better buy it and save the hassle.
If you have a good margin on mining, which happens to the few people who can optimize the miner themselves or have very low electricity cost, then mine the coin with better margin, sell it for BTC and back to point one.

Or

You are a believer and you mine a coin to help with its network; in this case you shouldn't care about profits etc.

agreed with this

But like what if an alt coin had the growing power Bitcoin did and does?  Even shitty, slow mining would bring in enough to make it worth the time and effort, right? 

he said and i quote AGAIN

You are a believer and you mine a coin to help with its network; in this case you shouldn't care about profits etc.

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May 21, 2015, 03:11:49 AM
 #11

I just wonna say that if you plan to mine a coin and wait for it to rise in value, then you'd better buy it and save the hassle.
If you have a good margin on mining, which happens to the few people who can optimize the miner themselves or have very low electricity cost, then mine the coin with better margin, sell it for BTC and back to point one.

Or

You are a believer and you mine a coin to help with its network; in this case you shouldn't care about profits etc.

agreed with this

But like what if an alt coin had the growing power Bitcoin did and does?  Even shitty, slow mining would bring in enough to make it worth the time and effort, right? 

he said and i quote AGAIN

You are a believer and you mine a coin to help with its network; in this case you shouldn't care about profits etc.

Even if you mine a coin with low payout, as a believer your belief is that the coin will someday be
successful and you are contributing to that success. A believer's reasons may be different than
a skilled investor but both expect profit.

Even someone actually not mining a coin for profit, a coin's dev perhaps, would be invested in
the coin in other ways where they do expect a profit.

AKA JayDDee, cpuminer-opt developer. https://github.com/JayDDee/cpuminer-opt
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5226770.msg53865575#msg53865575
BTC: 12tdvfF7KmAsihBXQXynT6E6th2c2pByTT,
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May 21, 2015, 03:20:16 AM
 #12

I just wonna say that if you plan to mine a coin and wait for it to rise in value, then you'd better buy it and save the hassle.
If you have a good margin on mining, which happens to the few people who can optimize the miner themselves or have very low electricity cost, then mine the coin with better margin, sell it for BTC and back to point one.

Or

You are a believer and you mine a coin to help with its network; in this case you shouldn't care about profits etc.

agreed with this

But like what if an alt coin had the growing power Bitcoin did and does?  Even shitty, slow mining would bring in enough to make it worth the time and effort, right? 

he said and i quote AGAIN

You are a believer and you mine a coin to help with its network; in this case you shouldn't care about profits etc.

Sorry bro, I sort of read over that part.  I don't think there is any alt coin out there I have enough confidence in.  Sad

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May 21, 2015, 07:53:15 AM
 #13

he said and i quote AGAIN
You are a believer and you mine a coin to help with its network; in this case you shouldn't care about profits etc.
Even if you mine a coin with low payout, as a believer your belief is that the coin will someday be
successful and you are contributing to that success. A believer's reasons may be different than
a skilled investor but both expect profit.
Even someone actually not mining a coin for profit, a coin's dev perhaps, would be invested in
the coin in other ways where they do expect a profit.

by "help with its network" I mean increase the hashrate in order to secure it.
if you plan to sell the coin, it means you don't believe in it: if you do, you should plan to keep and use it directly.

Grout (OP)
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May 21, 2015, 10:23:12 AM
 #14

Maybe a good strategy would be to mine a coin _before_ it is on any exchange, and the difficulty is low, and then dump it during the initial spike. That doesn't help the coin one bit, but it might be a good way to make a buck.
This is in general the best strategy as the difficulty is lower, however not all coins become successful either...

OK, you piqued my curiosity. As an exercise, I pointed my rig at the latest quark coin (SED). I caught it at block 92, pretty much right at launch.
The POW phase should last 3 days. Which would have made around 0.04BTC on Nicehash.
Let's see how it fares :-)
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May 21, 2015, 08:25:31 PM
 #15

Maybe a good strategy would be to mine a coin _before_ it is on any exchange, and the difficulty is low, and then dump it during the initial spike. That doesn't help the coin one bit, but it might be a good way to make a buck.
This is in general the best strategy as the difficulty is lower, however not all coins become successful either...

OK, you piqued my curiosity. As an exercise, I pointed my rig at the latest quark coin (SED). I caught it at block 92, pretty much right at launch.
The POW phase should last 3 days. Which would have made around 0.04BTC on Nicehash.
Let's see how it fares :-)


You win djm34, I made 30% more than I usually do on NiceHash today, by only exchanging a third of my SED. Keeping the rest for staking and having fun later.
So, to Joblo, that's a 300% difference. Not really minimal in my book  Tongue
Granted, if you factor the time in, I spent a few hours for about 4€. But that's because my rig is ridiculously small. If I had a chrysx-sized farm, that would definitely be worth it.

Look at me, diverging from my own post's subject, while asking everyone to stay on it. I need help.
But you guys gave me a good view of the landscape: I should mine a coin I believe in. And there are no coins worth believing in. I guess when I finally find a coin I believe in, I'll be able to just buy it with my mine&dump dirty profits...
Shit, I'm in a trolly mood today  Grin
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May 21, 2015, 08:29:58 PM
 #16

Maybe a good strategy would be to mine a coin _before_ it is on any exchange, and the difficulty is low, and then dump it during the initial spike. That doesn't help the coin one bit, but it might be a good way to make a buck.
This is in general the best strategy as the difficulty is lower, however not all coins become successful either...

OK, you piqued my curiosity. As an exercise, I pointed my rig at the latest quark coin (SED). I caught it at block 92, pretty much right at launch.
The POW phase should last 3 days. Which would have made around 0.04BTC on Nicehash.
Let's see how it fares :-)


You win djm34, I made 30% more than I usually do on NiceHash today, by only exchanging a third of my SED. Keeping the rest for staking and having fun later.
So, to Joblo, that's a 300% difference. Not really minimal in my book  Tongue
Granted, if you factor the time in, I spent a few hours for about 4€. But that's because my rig is ridiculously small. If I had a chrysx-sized farm, that would definitely be worth it.

Look at me, diverging from my own post's subject, while asking everyone to stay on it. I need help.
But you guys gave me a good view of the landscape: I should mine a coin I believe in. And there are no coins worth believing in. I guess when I finally find a coin I believe in, I'll be able to just buy it with my mine&dump dirty profits...
Shit, I'm in a trolly mood today  Grin

Hard to believe you could exchange coins so quickly to introduction. How'd you manage that?

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hdmediaservices
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May 21, 2015, 08:43:36 PM
 #17

he said and i quote AGAIN
You are a believer and you mine a coin to help with its network; in this case you shouldn't care about profits etc.
Even if you mine a coin with low payout, as a believer your belief is that the coin will someday be
successful and you are contributing to that success. A believer's reasons may be different than
a skilled investor but both expect profit.
Even someone actually not mining a coin for profit, a coin's dev perhaps, would be invested in
the coin in other ways where they do expect a profit.

by "help with its network" I mean increase the hashrate in order to secure it.
if you plan to sell the coin, it means you don't believe in it: if you do, you should plan to keep and use it directly.

Does anyone actually believe any new altcoin will actually be used directly?  It would be a lotto.

With me -- there are two sets of alt coins:

1.  The reliable ones -- 42, AUR, DGB, FLO, FRK, GLD, HBN, NET, NOTE, NVC, WDC, etc. -- these I can feel confident (well at least as one can get with alt coins) that I will most likely be able to mine and sell for a profit at the right time.

2.  IPO coins -- I can't name one -- they all come and go.  These can make you a really good profit if you get in at the start and sell pretty quick.  Then they tend to disappear.  They are also very risky and you can loose a lot too due to scams.

I don't have time to mess with the IPO coins -- too much research / work.  The reliable ones work for me as I always make 125% to sometimes 200% profit compared to just mining LTC alone.

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May 21, 2015, 08:52:11 PM
Last edit: May 21, 2015, 09:04:11 PM by CapnBDL
 #18

@ hdmediaservices

Pretty much agree. I see virtually no market for alts except to trade for btc and maybe ltc. There are a couple alts that do have a use though, depending on your location. POT, for one, comes to mind. The rest..well...even the ones that have stuck around aren't worth much. DASH, if you have a large enough rig to mine it. UNO pays good right now...but for how long? Hell....it's all iffy.

edit; and for the IPOs...just check supranova.....full of them. Some don't have a website yet, I think. DONE EDITING

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May 21, 2015, 09:03:11 PM
 #19

Sorry...I gotta leave. Wife to be home from work soon and I need a shower. Don't know who started this thread but I, for one, am enjoying/getting a kick out of it. There is actually some intelligence in here.

So...the question remains....How to choose a coin to mine? Interesting viewpoints.

Later-

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May 21, 2015, 09:17:07 PM
 #20

Maybe a good strategy would be to mine a coin _before_ it is on any exchange, and the difficulty is low, and then dump it during the initial spike. That doesn't help the coin one bit, but it might be a good way to make a buck.
This is in general the best strategy as the difficulty is lower, however not all coins become successful either...

OK, you piqued my curiosity. As an exercise, I pointed my rig at the latest quark coin (SED). I caught it at block 92, pretty much right at launch.
The POW phase should last 3 days. Which would have made around 0.04BTC on Nicehash.
Let's see how it fares :-)


You win djm34, I made 30% more than I usually do on NiceHash today, by only exchanging a third of my SED. Keeping the rest for staking and having fun later.
So, to Joblo, that's a 300% difference. Not really minimal in my book  Tongue
Granted, if you factor the time in, I spent a few hours for about 4€. But that's because my rig is ridiculously small. If I had a chrysx-sized farm, that would definitely be worth it.

Look at me, diverging from my own post's subject, while asking everyone to stay on it. I need help.
But you guys gave me a good view of the landscape: I should mine a coin I believe in. And there are no coins worth believing in. I guess when I finally find a coin I believe in, I'll be able to just buy it with my mine&dump dirty profits...
Shit, I'm in a trolly mood today  Grin

Hard to believe you could exchange coins so quickly to introduction. How'd you manage that?

SED has been on YoBit almost immediately. It's also on bleutrade, but there isn't much traffic there.
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