Minor trust score algorithm change

[peligro]

@theymos what is the thinking behind increasing the numbers? It makes changes too much. Was it to increase the strength of DefaultTrust?

You'll get used to the larger numbers. DefaultTrust doesn't get any sort of advantage as far as I can tell.

What is the issue with the earlier numbers?

DefaultTrust gets an advantage. Earlier, one default feedback still means 10 months remaining black and slowly increasing number. Now, all one has to do is manage one default feedback and very soon it is green. Similar is the case for moving from light green to dark green.

Advantages of trading with DefaultTrust members went up even more, they are going to get bargains now.

The meaning of having "green" trust is now diminished and will be similar to what was previously the meaning of having black positive trust.  

Yes. I think with this new algorithm low positive trust should be shown as black (maybe bold). Light green should be used when reaching some value (at least 5, maybe 10) and dark green when surpassing at least 2x or 3x that first threshold.

Either that or rescale it. Dividing it by 5-10.

@ Quickseller there is a difference. A single trade or activity gives a lot of numbers now, while a lot of trades outside that makes it remain 0. The number increase works for all those with any numbers. For all those with 0 it remains 0, there is no scaling.

[Quickseller]

@theymos what is the thinking behind increasing the numbers? It makes changes too much. Was it to increase the strength of DefaultTrust?

You'll get used to the larger numbers. DefaultTrust doesn't get any sort of advantage as far as I can tell.

What is the issue with the earlier numbers?

DefaultTrust gets an advantage. Earlier, one default feedback still means 10 months remaining black and slowly increasing number. Now, all one has to do is manage one default feedback and very soon it is green. Similar is the case for moving from light green to dark green.

Advantages of trading with DefaultTrust members went up even more, they are going to get bargains now.

The meaning of having "green" trust is now diminished and will be similar to what was previously the meaning of having black positive trust. 

Yes. I think with this new algorithm low positive trust should be shown as black (maybe bold). Light green should be used when reaching some value (at least 5, maybe 10) and dark green when surpassing at least 2x or 3x that first threshold.

Either that or rescale it. Dividing it by 5-10.

@ Quickseller there is a difference. A single trade or activity gives a lot of numbers now, while a lot of trades outside that makes it remain 0. The number increase works for all those with any numbers. For all those with 0 it remains 0, there is no scaling.

a trust score of positive 5 with the new system is the same as a trust score of 0(0)-1(1) under the old system. IMO you really shouldn't be trading just because the other person is on default trust anyway.

[Neotox]

with new green feedback system , even proven scammers are having green trust ratings under their username, and they can scam users again using their green trust ratings

[marcotheminer]

with new green feedback system , even proven scammers are having green trust ratings under their username, and they can scam users again using their green trust ratings

Like who?

[redsn0w]

with new green feedback system , even proven scammers are having green trust ratings under their username, and they can scam users again using their green trust ratings

Not exactly, an user should not see only the 'trust score'   but also check the user's history and use always an escrow if he does not trust the other part.

[peligro]

@theymos what is the thinking behind increasing the numbers? It makes changes too much. Was it to increase the strength of DefaultTrust?

You'll get used to the larger numbers. DefaultTrust doesn't get any sort of advantage as far as I can tell.

What is the issue with the earlier numbers?

DefaultTrust gets an advantage. Earlier, one default feedback still means 10 months remaining black and slowly increasing number. Now, all one has to do is manage one default feedback and very soon it is green. Similar is the case for moving from light green to dark green.

Advantages of trading with DefaultTrust members went up even more, they are going to get bargains now.

The meaning of having "green" trust is now diminished and will be similar to what was previously the meaning of having black positive trust.  

Yes. I think with this new algorithm low positive trust should be shown as black (maybe bold). Light green should be used when reaching some value (at least 5, maybe 10) and dark green when surpassing at least 2x or 3x that first threshold.

Either that or rescale it. Dividing it by 5-10.

@ Quickseller there is a difference. A single trade or activity gives a lot of numbers now, while a lot of trades outside that makes it remain 0. The number increase works for all those with any numbers. For all those with 0 it remains 0, there is no scaling.

a trust score of positive 5 with the new system is the same as a trust score of 0(0)-1(1) under the old system. IMO you really shouldn't be trading just because the other person is on default trust anyway.

Difference is anyone with a number gets a higher number. Anyone with a 0 is still 0.

If people here didn't do what they shouldn't do there would be no need of the trust system. Thats not how it works, scammers will attempt to trade with DefaultTrust members and wait for a few months to gain a lot of ratings and color.

It makes changes abrupt when the DefaultTrust list changes.

[Neotox]

with new green feedback system , even proven scammers are having green trust ratings under their username, and they can scam users again using their green trust ratings

Not exactly, an user should not see only the 'trust score'   but also check the user's history and use always an escrow if he does not trust the other part.

yes we know this but what about new users or newbies who was always trusting green trust users blindly
they think green is symbol of trust

[PistolPete]

with new green feedback system , even proven scammers are having green trust ratings under their username, and they can scam users again using their green trust ratings

Not exactly, an user should not see only the 'trust score'   but also check the user's history and use always an escrow if he does not trust the other part.

yes we know this but what about new users or newbies who was always trusting green trust users blindly
they think green is symbol of trust

Like this dope

Fooled by the nice color and now out of 0.7 BTC

[hilariousandco]

The scores seem like too much of a drastic jump in my opinion and will make users seem more trusted than they really are or should be. Mine went from 4: -0 / +0 to 22: -0 / +3.

[Quickseller]

@theymos what is the thinking behind increasing the numbers? It makes changes too much. Was it to increase the strength of DefaultTrust?

You'll get used to the larger numbers. DefaultTrust doesn't get any sort of advantage as far as I can tell.

What is the issue with the earlier numbers?

DefaultTrust gets an advantage. Earlier, one default feedback still means 10 months remaining black and slowly increasing number. Now, all one has to do is manage one default feedback and very soon it is green. Similar is the case for moving from light green to dark green.

Advantages of trading with DefaultTrust members went up even more, they are going to get bargains now.

The meaning of having "green" trust is now diminished and will be similar to what was previously the meaning of having black positive trust.  

Yes. I think with this new algorithm low positive trust should be shown as black (maybe bold). Light green should be used when reaching some value (at least 5, maybe 10) and dark green when surpassing at least 2x or 3x that first threshold.

Either that or rescale it. Dividing it by 5-10.

@ Quickseller there is a difference. A single trade or activity gives a lot of numbers now, while a lot of trades outside that makes it remain 0. The number increase works for all those with any numbers. For all those with 0 it remains 0, there is no scaling.

a trust score of positive 5 with the new system is the same as a trust score of 0(0)-1(1) under the old system. IMO you really shouldn't be trading just because the other person is on default trust anyway.

Difference is anyone with a number gets a higher number. Anyone with a 0 is still 0.

If people here didn't do what they shouldn't do there would be no need of the trust system. Thats not how it works, scammers will attempt to trade with DefaultTrust members and wait for a few months to gain a lot of ratings and color.

It makes changes abrupt, like that happened with Muhammed Zakir.

Fair enough on trading with specific people.

However the meaning of having a low trust score now is the same meaning as having black positive trust. Their potential trading partners should take similar precautions with someone with a green trust score of plus 5 now as they would as black trust with one trust rating previously.

Also this is an improvement as previously you could have one successful trade two years ago and would show as having significant amounts of trust. This is fixed by getting a max of 10 points per trade.

You also need to consider that previously the max score you can have was 150 while now the max score is 9999 so having a small positive score would be essentially the same as zero.

[Neotox]

with new green feedback system , even proven scammers are having green trust ratings under their username, and they can scam users again using their green trust ratings

Not exactly, an user should not see only the 'trust score'   but also check the user's history and use always an escrow if he does not trust the other part.

yes we know this but what about new users or newbies who was always trusting green trust users blindly
they think green is symbol of trust

Like this dope

Fooled by the nice color and now out of 0.7 BTC

this one has black, i have seen scammers in green
now its a lot of work for default trust members to spot the scammers and help the community

[Quickseller]

The scores seem like too much of a drastic jump in my opinion and will make users seem more trusted than they really are or should be. Mine went from 4: -0 / +0 to 22: -0 / +3.

It used to take a lot to jump from 3 to 4 (or from one number to the next). You can somewhat equate your current trust rating as being a 2.2 under the old system.

I think the color scheme should probably be reformed as the difference between dark green and light green is much smaller then it was previously.

[PistolPete]

with new green feedback system , even proven scammers are having green trust ratings under their username, and they can scam users again using their green trust ratings

Not exactly, an user should not see only the 'trust score'   but also check the user's history and use always an escrow if he does not trust the other part.

yes we know this but what about new users or newbies who was always trusting green trust users blindly
they think green is symbol of trust

Like this dope

Fooled by the nice color and now out of 0.7 BTC

this one has black, i have seen scammers in green
now its a lot of work for default trust members to spot the scammers and help the community

This happened earlier. I was giving an example how color can fool a newbie. In that case it is even more so as there was very specific rating warning against that very particular trade. Goes to show that they rely mostly on colors and hardly on the text.

[Neotox]

God Bless users who trust green feedbacks until default trust users make all the scammers red again

[theymos]

In situations like TECSHARE's, you can (if you trust TECSHARE and disagree with Vod) post an additional positive rating responding to whatever Vod said. This will counteract Vod's negative rating.

The meaning of having "green" trust is now diminished and will be similar to what was previously the meaning of having black positive trust. 

Oh, good point. I changed it so that you have dark green trust if your score is 5 and dark green if your score is 15.

[peligro]

In situations like TECSHARE's, you can (if you trust TECSHARE and disagree with Vod) post an additional positive rating responding to whatever Vod said. This will counteract Vod's negative rating.

The meaning of having "green" trust is now diminished and will be similar to what was previously the meaning of having black positive trust.  

Oh, good point. I changed it so that you have dark green trust if your score is 5 and dark green if your score is 15.

What is the problem with rescaling instead? I don't see any benefits with the higher numbers.

[Blazed]

I agree that the numbers should be scaled back...I kicked it on default trust only and it seems like everyone has huge scores now. Maybe a scale of -100 - +100 would be better. It seems like being trusted will be easier, and that is not a good thing around here.

[hilariousandco]

I agree that the numbers should be scaled back...I kicked it on default trust only and it seems like everyone has huge scores now. Maybe a scale of -100 - +100 would be better. It seems like being trusted will be easier, and that is not a good thing around here.

Yeah, they're way too high in my opinion. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=343102 That guy only has one feedback from me I left over a year ago and he was 1: -0 / +1 the other day and now he's 10: -0 / +1. What are the question marks all about like here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=320943 ? ??: 1 / +2?

[redsn0w]

....
 What are the question marks all about like here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=320943 ? ??: 1 / +2?

This :

??? is a valid score in the new algorithm.
...

[Blazed]

I agree that the numbers should be scaled back...I kicked it on default trust only and it seems like everyone has huge scores now. Maybe a scale of -100 - +100 would be better. It seems like being trusted will be easier, and that is not a good thing around here.

Yeah, they're way too high in my opinion. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=343102 That guy only has one feedback from me I left over a year ago and he was 1: -0 / +1 the other day and now he's 10: -0 / +1. What are the question marks all about like here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=320943 ? ??: 1 / +2?

Exactly...It really diminishes the value of having earned a lot trust in my opinion. I see people now with high scores that look really trusted all the sudden.. Honestly I think a scale of 1-25 would be really good. It should take years of being honest to get any sort of good reputation here.

Also Theymos...

Can you make a list of users by trust within the default network? It would be interesting to have a leader board to see as people rise and fall trust wise here.