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Question: How Much Jail Time Will Ross Ulbricht Receive?  (Voting closed: May 31, 2015, 12:43:05 AM)
20 years (mandatory minimum) - 41 (42.3%)
30 years - 19 (19.6%)
50 years - 5 (5.2%)
life in prison - 32 (33%)
Total Voters: 97

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Author Topic: Ross Ulbricht Jailtime Poll  (Read 6995 times)
bennybong
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May 26, 2015, 07:45:43 PM
 #61

I'd say from 50 years to the life in prison...

I had to go with you that is exactly what I think. He will never be released, kind of unlucky where he decided to set up shop, some parts of the world he would be put of of his misery, other places he would not go to jail after paying out others ten to twenty years. Lets see what he gets.

True. My jaw hit the floor when I found out it was an American - on American soil that was running the show. I mean fuck, come on! Why didn't he relocate to a mansion in a country where he could be protected?!? He'd be the 21st century pablo escobar ftw.
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May 26, 2015, 08:01:33 PM
Last edit: May 26, 2015, 08:48:55 PM by gentlemand
 #62

I'd say from 50 years to the life in prison...

I had to go with you that is exactly what I think. He will never be released, kind of unlucky where he decided to set up shop, some parts of the world he would be put of of his misery, other places he would not go to jail after paying out others ten to twenty years. Lets see what he gets.

True. My jaw hit the floor when I found out it was an American - on American soil that was running the show. I mean fuck, come on! Why didn't he relocate to a mansion in a country where he could be protected?!? He'd be the 21st century pablo escobar ftw.

He probably thought he was invulnerable like everyone else who gets caught. It does boggle the mind a bit. He should've done a runner a long, long time before.

Even if he'd shut it down, he must've been aware that law enforcement would be relentless in trying to catch him.

It's always the ones who break new ground who end up without the rewards and all the problems.
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May 26, 2015, 08:11:58 PM
 #63

Do you think or do you think he deserves? Since the first question doesn't really make sense here; that would be a question to law school students, not bitcoin enthusiasts. How would we know without a good knowledge of law?

So I'm going to answer the second;

Honestly I think 20 years is enough for this type of a crime. However, to discourage future criminals, I think a higher sentence is okay too.

He shouldn't spend a second in jail...  The law is so criminal when looking at the constitution...  it is sickening.
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May 26, 2015, 08:43:32 PM
 #64

If Ross was indeed a perpetrator of some kind of illegal activity, government can do exactly as they are doing. In fact, government can make up the whole story if they want, and if they can get away with it. But there is only ONE thing that condemns Ross. It is his acceptance of the things that Government says.

If Ross were to NOT accept government, and were to get up and require government to bring a harmed or injured accuser forward, have the accuser get on the stand in court and make the charges verbally, and then show the connection that proved that Ross did the harm and injury, and have an impartial eye witness to the fact, only then could Ross be found guilty. Basic, standard American law.

Since Ross did not require any of these things, he is essentially agreeing with whatever government says. He deserves what he gets, because he is leaving it in the hands of government, rather than require to face his accuser and probably be set free.

Smiley

What the hell are you talking about? I think you live in a fantasy land. There doesn't have to be a 'physically harmed or injured accuser'. He broke the law in various ways and got caught and there's mountains of evidence against him, hence why he's fucked. Claiming some rambling nonsense about nobody being harmed wouldn't ever get him out of jail.

Here's what I am talking about. Standard court law in America if one invokes it is:
1. There has to be an accuser; in Ross's case it is THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Google the indictment;
2. There needs to be one who is accused; in this case it is Ross (maybe);
3. There needs to be an impartial witness;
4. There needs to be evidence.

If any of the above fails, there is no case. If a judgment is handed down anyway, it is a void judgment.

Regarding the above 4 points:
1. If Ross stands as a man, unrepresented in any way, his accuser must be a man who can take the oath or affirmation, get on the stand, and state how he was personally harmed or injured (injured means damage to property). In this case, the accuser, THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, will be unable to take the oath or affirmation, get on the stand, and utter anything by voice. No case because of this.
2. It is obvious that Ross is the defendant. However, if Ross had stood as a man in court, and filed a claim in the same case, requiring his accuser (in this case THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA) to come forward and testify so that Ross could pay for any harm or injury done, Ross's claim would have to be heard first. Since THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA couldn't do any of these things (as explained in #1), because THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA isn't a man or a woman, Ross would be found innocent of any wrongdoing, and would have won the case.
3. Where in all of this was an impartial witness who saw Ross do any of the things the plaintiff, THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, was claiming? There might have been evidence that a witness saw after the fact. But there was no witness that actually saw Ross do any of the wicked evil wrongdoings. Ross wins.
4. The evidence is insecure because all kinds of folks had opportunity to tamper with the evidence. Ross wins.

If Ross got up and stood present as a man without any form of representation whatsoever, not even representing himself, and if he said words to the effect that he did not understand any of the legal system and law, (thereby placing himself outside of it), and even if he said that he did those illegal things, but where is the man or woman claiming harm or injury, if no man or woman comes forward, Ross wins.

This is standard American law. The reason things seldom happen this way is, few people ever do it this way. If they did, they would win, except that the 4 elements at the beginning of this post were present:
1. Man/woman accuser actually had harm or injury;
2. Defendant;
3. Impartial witness (man/woman) who saw Ross do the harm or injury;
4. Secure evidence not tampered with.

If you don't believe this, see http://voidjudgments.com/ for the legal sites.

If you want to understand how this works, listen to the first video and the first 3 audios at the right side of http://www.myprivateaudio.com/Karl-Lentz.html.

Then get your friends who have been sent to prison out, because of their void judgments.

Smiley

I learned a lot on the standard American law just by reading your post. Are you an attorney or something? Smiley

--

If the United States of America, the accuser, couldn't stand in the court as a man, then there should be no case, right? Ross Ulbricht wins this case if ever, because it is already stated by the law. But what if the judge continue sentencing Ulbricht? Will it be voided because apparently, the accuser couldn't stand on the court and take the oath? Also, the witness part intrigues me. Who are the witnesses during the time Ulbricht ordered to kill 6 people? Man, this legal thing really amuses me.

EDIT: Sorry for the long quote. The whole quote interests me, and the whole point of the quote as well.

A void judgment can be nullified any time by the one the judgment is against.

In the case of a corrupt judge, things are tricky. But here is the base. The judge is a man. If a man harms somebody, the person harmed has a right to compensation. Ross would have to bring a common law suit against the man who was playing judge. He can't bring it against the judge, because judges are protected. He would have to bring it against the man.

Listen to the Karl Lentz audios in the above link, and you will see the basics of how this is done. Don't try it yourself without getting a clear understanding, and without having a court-experienced paralegal friend with you in court. If you can get an attorney as a friend, who will advise you "under the table," all the better. But most attorneys will not do this because they might lose their license to practice. Money is better than justice.

Smiley

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May 26, 2015, 09:34:42 PM
 #65

I'd say from 50 years to the life in prison...

I had to go with you that is exactly what I think. He will never be released, kind of unlucky where he decided to set up shop, some parts of the world he would be put of of his misery, other places he would not go to jail after paying out others ten to twenty years. Lets see what he gets.

True. My jaw hit the floor when I found out it was an American - on American soil that was running the show. I mean fuck, come on! Why didn't he relocate to a mansion in a country where he could be protected?!? He'd be the 21st century pablo escobar ftw.

He probably thought he was invulnerable like everyone else who gets caught. It does boggle the mind a bit. He should've done a runner a long, long time before.

Even if he'd shut it down, he must've been aware that law enforcement would be relentless in trying to catch him.

It's always the ones who break new ground who end up without the rewards and all the problems.

He should have put his bitcoins through a mixer at a minimum.

He will probably get life with no chance of parole IMO. He pleaded guilty to setting up the silk road, but innocent to running it. That innocent plea will be the thing that ensures he is never released.
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May 27, 2015, 01:07:41 AM
 #66

Christ, you have no idea what you're talking about. I'll discuss the problems one by one.

Here's what I am talking about. Standard court law in America if one invokes it is:

I don't know what you mean by "standard court law in American." This is federal court. That's federal law, federal rules, federal procedure.

Quote
1. There has to be an accuser; in Ross's case it is THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Google the indictment;

The entity prosecuting Ulbricht is the United States. This is correct.

Quote
2. There needs to be one who is accused; in this case it is Ross (maybe);

Your "maybe" is incorrect. Ulbricht is indeed the named defendant in this case.
Quote
3. There needs to be an impartial witness;

This is patently incorrect. Witnesses need not be "impartial." "Impartial" is not a legal term of art, so I'll assume you're giving it the colloquial meaning. The credibility of witnesses is for the trier of fact, in this case, a jury. Witnesses often have "stake" in a case, and juries evaluate that witness's credibility in light of their stake. For instance, many, many (most?) cases in federal courts and probably even more in state courts have only police officers as the witnesses in the case. Are they "impartial?" Not in any colloquial sense of the term I would give it. They are paid by the State to investigate crimes.

Quote
4. There needs to be evidence.

Correct. Evidence need not be direct, however, and can be circumstantial.

Quote
If any of the above fails, there is no case. If a judgment is handed down anyway, it is a void judgment.

You are incorrect. See above. I also don't think you're using the term "void" correctly, but that's another matter. We don't really use "void" in criminal law. It's a term that's often used in contracts though.

Quote
Regarding the above 4 points:
1. If Ross stands as a man, unrepresented in any way,

Ulbrichted is represented by counsel. He is not "unrepresented in any way."

Quote
his accuser must be a man who can take the oath or affirmation, get on the stand, and state how he was personally harmed or injured (injured means damage to property). In this case, the accuser, THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, will be unable to take the oath or affirmation, get on the stand, and utter anything by voice. No case because of this.

This is so wrong, I don't even know where to begin.

If the government chooses to call witnesses at the sentencing hearing, then yes, they must take an oath. But the government need not call witnesses, though it appears that they plan to, inasmuch as I can see that they have said as much in their recent filing.

The babble about the United States not being able to take an oath is the kind of crap I see from the sovereign citizen gold-flag fringe folks, and I need not address that bag of crazy further.

Quote
2. It is obvious that Ross is the defendant. However, if Ross had stood as a man in court, and filed a claim in the same case, requiring his accuser (in this case THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA) to come forward and testify so that Ross could pay for any harm or injury done, Ross's claim would have to be heard first.

You are incorrect. Defendants in criminal cases in federal courts cannot file "claims" in a pending case.

Quote
Since THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA couldn't do any of these things (as explained in #1), because THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA isn't a man or a woman, Ross would be found innocent of any wrongdoing, and would have won the case.

This is your similar rubbish as above.

Quote
3. Where in all of this was an impartial witness who saw Ross do any of the things the plaintiff, THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, was claiming? There might have been evidence that a witness saw after the fact. But there was no witness that actually saw Ross do any of the wicked evil wrongdoings. Ross wins.

See above regarding witnesses and circumstantial evidence.

Quote
4. The evidence is insecure because all kinds of folks had opportunity to tamper with the evidence. Ross wins.

Mere opportunity to tamper with evidence is simply rank speculation. Ultimately, any evidence that the government ever possesses could be tampered with. If the government found drugs in Ulbricht's house and locked them in a locker pending trial, they could have been tampered with, but mere possibility is not evidence. That's speculation.

Quote
If Ross got up and stood present as a man without any form of representation whatsoever, not even representing himself,

Ulbricht can be respresented by counsel, or he can represent himself. He cannot do neither.

Quote
and if he said words to the effect that he did not understand any of the legal system and law, (thereby placing himself outside of it), and even if he said that he did those illegal things, but where is the man or woman claiming harm or injury, if no man or woman comes forward, Ross wins.

This is incorrect.

Quote
This is standard American law.

This is incorrect.

Quote
The reason things seldom happen this way is, few people ever do it this way.

Hmm. I should have read through this more thoroughly before responding, since you're clearly a crazy sovereign citizen type. The reason criminal defendants don't do what you suggest is that it's a sure way for them to lose their case, and probably be found in contempt to boot.

Quote
If they did, they would win, except that the 4 elements at the beginning of this post were present:
1. Man/woman accuser actually had harm or injury;
2. Defendant;
3. Impartial witness (man/woman) who saw Ross do the harm or injury;
4. Secure evidence not tampered with.

If you don't believe this, see http://voidjudgments.com/ for the legal sites.

If you want to understand how this works, listen to the first video and the first 3 audios at the right side of http://www.myprivateaudio.com/Karl-Lentz.html.

Then get your friends who have been sent to prison out, because of their void judgments.

Smiley


Persons should seek the advice of licensed counsel in dealing with their criminal matters, not bullshit on the internet.
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May 27, 2015, 01:46:29 AM
 #67

Do you think or do you think he deserves? Since the first question doesn't really make sense here; that would be a question to law school students, not bitcoin enthusiasts. How would we know without a good knowledge of law?

So I'm going to answer the second;

Honestly I think 20 years is enough for this type of a crime. However, to discourage future criminals, I think a higher sentence is okay too.

He shouldn't spend a second in jail...  The law is so criminal when looking at the constitution...  it is sickening.
I don't care about american laws or the american constitution. All I know is he enabled networks of drug and perhaps other harmful substances for trade around the world, that possibly harmed many families in the process. He definitely deserves to be punished.

Just because there are people or governments that have committed worse crimes than he has is not a reason to let him go unpunished. Two wrongs don't make a right, as they say.
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May 27, 2015, 07:12:06 AM
Last edit: May 27, 2015, 08:58:59 AM by TheButterZone
 #68

He will die relatively soon for the "crime" of saving many lives that would have otherwise been snuffed by drug violence.

The worst violence happens further down the supply chain towards the roots. Silk Road did absolutely nothing to address that and by dint of its existence actively encouraged it.

It's the manufacturing and wholesale movement of the drugs where the majority of poor saps end up buying the farm.

I've known loads of people who buy drugs from their local dealer and not one ever had the slightest problem.

Your jolly nightclub coke deal is backed by a blockchain of suffering and blood.

You think all the Silk Road sellers were incapable of growing their own marijuana, poppies, coca, picking mushrooms that grow on lawns? LOL. Back when I was a drug warrior, I lived next to a guy who grew marijuana in a pot on his balcony. Even though it was in plain sight and pre-Prop 215, no law enforcement ever touched him.

Saying that you don't trust someone because of their behavior is completely valid.
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May 27, 2015, 07:17:31 AM
 #69

Life in prison 

That's what he deserves. 

Who was harmed that much, that he deserves a life sentence?

Depends on the facts. If it's true that he attempted to hire people to kill others then I'd say he deserves life but only for that, not for setting the site up of facilitating the sale of narcotics. I think he's going to get a hefty sentence because of the various crimes he committed. He's essentially a drug kingpin whether he wants to admit it or not.

Yes, it depends on the facts. It also depends on the government following its rules for condemning him.

If Ross was indeed a perpetrator of some kind of illegal activity, government can do exactly as they are doing. In fact, government can make up the whole story if they want, and if they can get away with it. But there is only ONE thing that condemns Ross. It is his acceptance of the things that Government says.

If Ross were to NOT accept government, and were to get up and require government to bring a harmed or injured accuser forward, have the accuser get on the stand in court and make the charges verbally, and then show the connection that proved that Ross did the harm and injury, and have an impartial eye witness to the fact, only then could Ross be found guilty. Basic, standard American law.

Since Ross did not require any of these things, he is essentially agreeing with whatever government says. He deserves what he gets, because he is leaving it in the hands of government, rather than require to face his accuser and probably be set free.

Smiley

It's not about what Ross agrees with. It's what his lawyer told him to do.
And you know why his lawyer told him to do that?
Because he was probably threatened to do so by "someone"....  Roll Eyes
Or he is a bad lawyer....

I don't know....
What do you think?

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May 27, 2015, 07:48:52 AM
 #70

In this case his lawer was no help at all.

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May 27, 2015, 08:02:15 AM
 #71

In this case his lawer was no help at all.

How his lawyer is going to help if all evidences leads to him Shocked I'd say he will take only 20 years
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May 27, 2015, 08:12:08 AM
 #72

In this case his lawer was no help at all.

He's a lawyer not a miracle worker or magician. No lawyer would have been able to get Ross off his charges. He was caught red handed at his computer with a diary journal on how he created Silk Road. Gut was foolish. Had he not got caught red handed and managed to encrypt or destroy his laptop successfully he might have had a leg to stand on but he shouldn't have been operating it from the United States as well. He should have used his bitcoins and gone live in some exotic country that the US can't touch so even if it all went tits up he'd be safe or much more so than he was.
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May 27, 2015, 08:12:44 AM
 #73

He did nothing wrong, he never handled drugs directly, he just acted as a medium for the crime to happen, the US government allows for hundreds of people to die each year, do we see Obama being thrown into jail?
but honestly, he is probably gonna get life in prison

I agree i dont see what he did wrong, he should be let free and be offered a consulting role within gov or something if they do have any legitimate gripe however i've not read any.  This kinda power abuse stuff will continue until we change the system.  Makes me want to just go and take him via force tbh.
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May 27, 2015, 08:19:25 AM
 #74

In this case his lawer was no help at all.

He's a lawyer not a miracle worker or magician. No lawyer would have been able to get Ross off his charges. He was caught red handed at his computer with a diary journal on how he created Silk Road. Gut was foolish. Had he not got caught red handed and managed to encrypt or destroy his laptop successfully he might have had a leg to stand on but he shouldn't have been operating it from the United States as well. He should have used his bitcoins and gone live in some exotic country that the US can't touch so even if it all went tits up he'd be safe or much more so than he was.

He might not be a miracle worker but he is definitely not a good lawyer IMO.
Apart from that, I doubt that there's any place in the world that the U.S. government agencies cannot touch - legally or otherwise  Wink

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Krang
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May 27, 2015, 08:21:59 AM
 #75

He did nothing wrong, he never handled drugs directly, he just acted as a medium for the crime to happen, the US government allows for hundreds of people to die each year, do we see Obama being thrown into jail?
but honestly, he is probably gonna get life in prison

I agree i dont see what he did wrong, he should be let free and be offered a consulting role within gov or something if they do have any legitimate gripe however i've not read any.  This kinda power abuse stuff will continue until we change the system.  Makes me want to just go and take him via force tbh.

It's arguable what he did wrong but lol at getting a job at the government. From the leaked chat logs he did more than just facilitate their sale (which is a massive crime in the eyes of the USG) and whilst he may never have handled the drugs directly he did actually personally get involved in helping set up a few drug deals. There's also the money laundering and attempted hits as well..
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May 27, 2015, 08:23:59 AM
 #76

In this case his lawer was no help at all.

He's a lawyer not a miracle worker or magician. No lawyer would have been able to get Ross off his charges. He was caught red handed at his computer with a diary journal on how he created Silk Road. Gut was foolish. Had he not got caught red handed and managed to encrypt or destroy his laptop successfully he might have had a leg to stand on but he shouldn't have been operating it from the United States as well. He should have used his bitcoins and gone live in some exotic country that the US can't touch so even if it all went tits up he'd be safe or much more so than he was.

He might not be a miracle worker but he is definitely not a good lawyer IMO.
Apart from that, I doubt that there's any place in the world that the U.S. government agencies cannot touch - legally or otherwise  Wink

Of course there are places. USA has lots of enemies and if the US doesn't have extradition treaties with that country then there's nothing much they can do. US LE agents can't even legally set foot in a country to arrest him because they'd be powerless so they need the help of that countries LE. Oh, and look at Edward Snowden. He's pretty safe and out of reach of the US.
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May 27, 2015, 08:36:59 AM
 #77

In this case his lawer was no help at all.

He's a lawyer not a miracle worker or magician. No lawyer would have been able to get Ross off his charges. He was caught red handed at his computer with a diary journal on how he created Silk Road. Gut was foolish. Had he not got caught red handed and managed to encrypt or destroy his laptop successfully he might have had a leg to stand on but he shouldn't have been operating it from the United States as well. He should have used his bitcoins and gone live in some exotic country that the US can't touch so even if it all went tits up he'd be safe or much more so than he was.

I agree about the dumb idea to safe all files and logs. Without these, there would be no case. Like I already said: In Germany he would have got 5-7 years with these proven counts. With good behaviour he would have been out in 2/3 of the time.

There is something really wrong with the current US judiciary, if a man is punished with a life sentence, when the only wrongdoings were to gain a commission in a (at that time not even considered "money") digital currency for providing a web service where people can sell and buy anything. He didn't sell or touch any of the drugs and buyer like seller were responsable of their use of the service. Now if I find an entry of a child porn site at Google, is the CEO of Google responsible and can be accused for distributing CP?

Why should Ross be sentenced just like a mass murderer who was lucky to live in the right state?

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May 27, 2015, 08:42:35 AM
 #78

He did nothing wrong, he never handled drugs directly, he just acted as a medium for the crime to happen, the US government allows for hundreds of people to die each year, do we see Obama being thrown into jail?
but honestly, he is probably gonna get life in prison

Not entirely true. In fact, Ross was actually the first drug seller on there. He grew some Magic Mushrooms and used them to get the Silk Road going as detailed in his writings found on his computer.

He should have put his bitcoins through a mixer at a minimum.

Using a mixer doesn't matter much when you get caught redhanded with the wallets that contained hundreds of millions of dollars worth of btc.

I don't care about american laws or the american constitution. All I know is he enabled networks of drug and perhaps other harmful substances for trade around the world, that possibly harmed many families in the process. He definitely deserves to be punished.

He didn't harm any person or families as he didn't force anyone to buy drugs; they made that choice. It should be a fundemental human right for people to take or buy any drugs they wish and SR enable that which was a good thing. It's none of the state's business what drugs someone should be allowed to take and if a person is not harming anyone else by doing so then no crime was comitted.
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May 27, 2015, 08:51:04 AM
 #79

He did nothing wrong, he never handled drugs directly, he just acted as a medium for the crime to happen, the US government allows for hundreds of people to die each year, do we see Obama being thrown into jail?
but honestly, he is probably gonna get life in prison

Not entirely true. In fact, Ross was actually the first drug seller on there. He grew some Magic Mushrooms and used them to get the Silk Road going as detailed in his writings found on his computer.


But they need proof, not only some letters in his computer..
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May 27, 2015, 09:16:47 AM
 #80

He did nothing wrong, he never handled drugs directly, he just acted as a medium for the crime to happen, the US government allows for hundreds of people to die each year, do we see Obama being thrown into jail?
but honestly, he is probably gonna get life in prison

Not entirely true. In fact, Ross was actually the first drug seller on there. He grew some Magic Mushrooms and used them to get the Silk Road going as detailed in his writings found on his computer.


But they need proof, not only some letters in his computer..

How much proof do you want? (not to mention him admitting it) There is mountains of evidence against him. Even the LE said the evidence they had and then found on his computer was as good as they ever could get. Open and shut case.
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