nothing is here

[johnwhitestar]

nothing is here

[finkleshnorts]

Hmm... A bitcoin bailout.

I don't think bitfloor was "too big to fail" by any stretch.

[2112]

Yeah, definitely save in memory. It will help people learn how to recognize a long con. This board is so dominated by the opportunist short cons that a real confidence men are hard to recognize.

I'll save some posts for history:

We are in the process of developing a better bitcoin exchange. Based in New York City and written by financial industry professionals, our goal is to be the fastest, most stable, and most secure bitcoin exchange.

We currently have a:
- simple web trading interface
- simple REST JSON API
- streaming TCP and UDP API

Currently we are running a testnet with fake USD and testnet BTC while we work on polishing up the system. We are inviting everyone to check it out and appreciate any feedback you provide.

You can signup here: http://testnet.bitfloor.com/signup

You can see sample traders here: http://github.com/bitfloor

We are currently writing up some detailed information on our security. The bitcoin wallet and database is on a different machine than the rest of the system, and is not connected to the internet. Therefore, an attacker would have to hack the webserver and then use that to hack into the wallet/database server. All passwords are hashed with bcrypt so even in the unlikely chance that an attacker compromised the database, your password would not be decrypted even if it was weak. We have multiple bank accounts, so if the bank closes the account we are using we will simply start using another one. There may be some delays in USD withdrawals during that time but banks are not allowed to just take your money; we will get it eventually. Currently we use dwolla for everything, so there is no bank account to close.

We are pleased to announce that we are now offering a rebate for providing liquidity on our exchange. This means that if your order was on the book when it gets paired with another trade, you will be paid a rebate instead of being charged a fee. A more detailed explanation is on our blog: https://blog.bitfloor.com/?p=6

We have a page which details some of our security practices here: https://bitfloor.com/docs/security
We believe that from a systems engineering and cryptography standpoint, we have the most secure bitcoin exchange. Here's an example of the poor security practices at mtgox: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2676781

Sign up for an account and start trading!

https://bitfloor.com/

Hopefully this site will not met the fate of fuckedcompany.com and the future generations will be able to access it for reference.

[fcmatt]

Until you know how the coins were stolen that exchange is dead and will get zero trust.
If the site came back up how will you know the problem has been fixed if they cannot explain how it happened?

[finkleshnorts]

I see... may be they'd need some help in the security issues, but does they really deserve to by punished in this manner?
And in particularly does the bitcoin community need their default?

[sic]
To the first question: yes.

To the second question: ?

[finkleshnorts]

I mean, the credibility of bitcoin community may collapse if we are giving this kind of news to the world?

The bitcoin community already has terrible credibility. There is no greater concentration of scams and scammers known to me.

[Shadow383]

I mean, the credibility of bitcoin community may collapse if we are giving this kind of news to the world?

The bitcoin community already has terrible credibility. There is no greater concentration of scams and scammers known to me.

+1
It's all drugs, unlicensed securities, ponzi schemes and simple theft.
And that's just on this forum!

[fcmatt]

Until you know how the coins were stolen that exchange is dead and will get zero trust.
If the site came back up how will you know the problem has been fixed if they cannot explain how it happened?

It seems that they found an explanation, but in fact I understand what you are saying.

I would welcome a link to the explanation from an official source. The answer better not be, oh it was linode.

[finkleshnorts]

The flip-side to my previous statement is that if bitcoin really does function as intended, then all of these scams are to be expected (so bitcoin works! It really is irreversible!).

The fact that people are going to great lengths to steal bitcoins speaks volumes.

[finkleshnorts]

I mean, the credibility of bitcoin community may collapse if we are giving this kind of news to the world?

The bitcoin community already has terrible credibility. There is no greater concentration of scams and scammers known to me.

+1
It's all drugs, unlicensed securities, ponzi schemes and simple theft.
And that's just on this forum!

Maybe I'm a bit naive but, I don't believe it. By other hand why we are all here?

Because we are on the cutting edge of THE monetary revolution. And I truly believe that.

It's the Gutenberg press, it's gunpowder, it's the internal combustion engine. Bitcoin is going down in history.

Deflation be damned.

[fcmatt]

Until you know how the coins were stolen that exchange is dead and will get zero trust.
If the site came back up how will you know the problem has been fixed if they cannot explain how it happened?

It seems that they found an explanation, but in fact I understand what you are saying.

I would welcome a link to the explanation from an official source. The answer better not be, oh it was linode.

I thought the post I mentioned above was an official source. Am I missing something?

I read the official thread. I clicked on a couple broken links in this thread. I want to know the root cause from an analysis.
Like here is the code on html pgae foo.php that allowed the attacker to run commands as user www which then allowed him to upload a file which gave a remote shell which then allowed... Etc....

Edited to add i amalso unclear if they were running vps(s) or dedicated hardware which was colo'd.

[smoothie]

Short answer: No, its a free market. If the were dumb enough to lose bitcoins. They are dumb enough to be out of business.

[2112]

I mean, the credibility of bitcoin community may collapse if we are giving this kind of news to the world?

The credibility is already so low that any real legal action taken by the victims will increase the overall respectability.

Anyway, it looks like vadimg is doing well, so it may be willing to settle for buying everyone their lost bitcoins.

This is Vadim. I helped start bitfloor, but I haven't been involved with its operations since December of last year, due to personal reasons. I officially signed over all my shares and intellectual property, etc earlier this year.

There's no reason I would hack roman, as he is one of my best friends. Also, I make a great living and definitely don't need the money.

The address listed also isn't my address. I haven't lived there for 7 years. Please don't harass the people living there now.

Death&Taxes is already doing some good work, but it is in the USD space and only tangentially related to bitcoin:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=106565.0
 

[finkleshnorts]

I agree with you, but maybe bitcoin is only beginning. Maybe other currencies will emerge in the future.

Many other currencies will certainly emerge, but I don't see anything "toppling" bitcoin in the next 20 years. Remember, the people who already own bitcoins are the primary people who would be interested in owning something *like* bitcoin. The fact that bitcoin has been heavily bootstrapped goes a long, long, long way. I don't ever plan on switching.

EDIT: sorry for getting way OT

[johnwhitestar]

:-)

[FreeMoney]

If it is so good that it's worth saving then it can be sold for what is owed or more or close.

I doubt it's good enough to warrant that by a long shot.

Any part of it that is good can be sold to someone who will probably use it in a safer way.

[MPOE-PR]

Many other currencies will certainly emerge, but I don't see anything "toppling" bitcoin in the next 20 years. Remember, the people who already own bitcoins are the primary people who would be interested in owning something *like* bitcoin. The fact that bitcoin has been heavily bootstrapped goes a long, long, long way. I don't ever plan on switching.

I'm positive you're not the only one.

[Cluster2k]

But would the bitcoin community benefit from the Bitfloor default?

And what if we decide to help Bitfloor, as they asked on their post?

A small exchange being hacked isn't going to have a huge impact on bitcoin.  Bitfloor wasn't 'too big to fail'.  I can sympathize with the owners who have been the targets of theft, but ultimately if someone is running an exchange with more than a few bitcoins there they know they are a fat, juicy target for theft.  No one can claim to be surprised after the many previous exchange hacks.  Proper security measures had better be in place or it's just not worth running the exchange.  Having an unencrypted wallet on the server doesn't sound like good practice to me.

Sending more bitcoins to some guys on the internet because they requested them sounds like one of the worst things that can be done right now.

[Melbustus]

But would the bitcoin community benefit from the Bitfloor default?

And what if we decide to help Bitfloor, as they asked on their post?

A small exchange being hacked isn't going to have a huge impact on bitcoin.  Bitfloor wasn't 'too big to fail'.  I can sympathize with the owners who have been the targets of theft, but ultimately if someone is running an exchange with more than a few bitcoins there they know they are a fat, juicy target for theft.  No one can claim to be surprised after the many previous exchange hacks.  Proper security measures had better be in place or it's just not worth running the exchange.  Having an unencrypted wallet on the server doesn't sound like good practice to me.

Sending more bitcoins to some guys on the internet because they requested them sounds like one of the worst things that can be done right now.

Yeah, I don't think we need to introduce security moral-hazard into the community. This business deserves to die. In fact, the opposite of a bailout should happen for the sake of the community... If there are lawsuits and so forth, perhaps the next exchange operators will be incentivized to either have rock solid security, or not start the business in the first place, thus keeping the community's funds (and respectability) safe.

Even if we say that we're sure this was an honest mistake, it's still completely inexcusable. How do you handle the equivalent of a quarter million dollars worth of other people's money and not put MANY security measures in place such that ONE mistake could not possibly cost you all the coins? The majority of the coins should've been spread among several truly offline wallets. Not that I've run an exchange, but from what I gather, correct handling is pretty well-defined at this point. With the number of high-profile, endlessly-discussed hacks that have taken place, it blows my mind that anyone handling that kind of coin wouldn't have better security. It's sheer negligence and lack of respect for other people's funds that allowed this to happen. (and for the record, I have no funds tied up in bitfloor - never used it)

[labestiol]

If someone thinks that the platform is good enough to be bought, then good for them.
Otherwise, let them fail. That's the best way for this community to learn that security standards need to be higher.