Gavin Threatens to Quit Bitcoin Development and Join Hearn's Fork

[Gibbs187x]

Bitcoin will die and shadowcash will rise you all fools

Says a man without experience!

yes im not saying invest im saying check it out man ? Gett in before marketplace comes out

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[iCEBREAKER]

The core developers, Gregory, Pieter, Luke and Matt are involved in a company Blockstream: https://www.blockstream.com/team/ .
Obviously they want Blockstream to be successful. Please tell me how Gavin is biased and the others aren't.  

There are two sides to (almost) each story, and there definitely are hidden agendas involved here.

Luke is involved in Blockstream?  I don't see him at your /team/ link.  Also conspicuously absent is Garzik, who opposes Bitcoin-XT as well.

Either way, the 'Only Blockstream conflicts of interest prevent 20mb block support' meme is idiotic.  Case in point: Mircea.  So fuck off with the defamatory accusations of "hidden agendas."

While the other core devs' are not, Gavin's biases are uniquely disqualifying:

-Gavin could care less about TOR users and decentralization
-Gavin wants to change the 10 min block target
-Gavin doesn't believe proof of work has a place in BTC's long-term future
-Gavin pointedly bypassed the normal proposal discussion channels in favor of smoky/spooky VC backrooms and Reddit demagoguery

He's either gone crazy or been compromised.  I don't need to speculate about the why or how to see that.

[GenTarkin]

So, what OP is saying that Bitcoin really is indeed centralized after all? =P

[Amph]

So, what OP is saying that Bitcoin really is indeed centralized after all? =P

the development must be centralized, we are still long away from program that can build themselves, and thus making software development decentralized...on a serious note this wasn't never the probem

satoshi should've simply left the client as it was at the beginning without the limit of 1 MB

[dKingston]

despite all this hullaballoo .. no bitcoin price slide. apparently the market does not give a crap about Gavin

[Muhammed Zakir]

Bitcoin will die and shadowcash will rise you all fools

Says a man without experience!

yes im not saying invest im saying check it out man ? Gett in before marketplace comes out

So, what OP is saying that Bitcoin really is indeed centralized after all? =P

well of course bitcoin is Centralized there is no anonymous transactions for btc lol
Need Something More Anonymous Than Bitcoin? Try ShadowCash!
http://www.newsbtc.com/2015/05/29/need-something-more-anonymous-than-bitcoin-try-shadowcash/

You SDC trolls just spam all over the place. Please stop spamming. No offence.

[Gibbs187x]

Bitcoin will die and shadowcash will rise you all fools

Says a man without experience!

yes im not saying invest im saying check it out man ? Gett in before marketplace comes out

So, what OP is saying that Bitcoin really is indeed centralized after all? =P

well of course bitcoin is Centralized there is no anonymous transactions for btc lol
Need Something More Anonymous Than Bitcoin? Try ShadowCash!
http://www.newsbtc.com/2015/05/29/need-something-more-anonymous-than-bitcoin-try-shadowcash/

im simply typing my opinion here? i have the right too! im just saying dont get left on planet earth

You SDC trolls just spam all over the place. Please stop spamming. No offence.

[LiteCoinGuy]

despite all this hullaballoo .. no bitcoin price slide. apparently the market does not give a crap about Gavin

the trolls.

[crazyearner]

Good luck if he does move just gives more room for someone else to jump in his position and make things better if making threats to move due to wanting another chain will just become another alt coin. Even if bitcoin does fall apart due to devs leaving then so be it  give another coin the chance to take the leadership.

[iCEBREAKER]

Things are taking a turn. The problem is actually that every single dumdum in the world has the right to join Bitcoin and start spewing out nonsense. The developers will become exhausted and stressed out.
We've read thousands of different opinions, most of which are utter nonsense backed up only by the unicorns in my garden. Things are getting out of control. Look at the drama now.

Maxwell will potentially leave if Bitcoin XT rolls out:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/37vg8y/is_the_blockstream_company_the_reason_why_4_core/crqbd78

Don't tell me it is misleading or anything and just read his damn post.

If the Bitcoin community wants to go commit suicide, I'm confident that I can sell my most of my bitcoins before most of the public has realized things have gone wrong. .

Drama?  In Bitcoin?  Inconceivable!

But yes, things are getting out of control.  We have our Lead Dev trolling the rest of the Core team, FFS!

WTF?  As a fan of epic trolls, I'm very impressed and entertained.  But as a long-term hodlr, it's a bit unnerving.

This season of All My Bitcoins is only setting the scene for next year's 'Civil War: Everything Burns' story arc.

We might be in trouble if Gavin has found a way to generate anti-anti-fragility.  Is XT a black swan?   

changes do need to made, just not in the way these guys are proposing with XT. Their divide and conquer tactics aren't going to help either though it will be interesting to see how this all pans out.

Prepare for the Bitcoin civil war

My anus popcorn is ready!   

[Lauda]

Luke is involved in Blockstream?  I don't see him at your /team/ link.  Also conspicuously absent is Garzik, who opposes Bitcoin-XT as well.

You're correct as I can't find information myself. Looks like the source is wrong or I'm failing to find Luke's involvement with Blockstream. Although it is still 3 of them involved.
Where is Garzik?

Either way, the 'Only Blockstream conflicts of interest prevent 20mb block support' meme is idiotic.

That's not the point. I was trying to point out that there are probably things going on behind the scenes that we are not aware of. It would be unwise to say that being involved with Blockstream has no effect on their denial of 20MB blocks.

Case in point: Mircea.  So fuck off with the defamatory accusations of "hidden agendas."

Ad hominem anyone? You should express yourself in a better way if you want people to take you more seriously.
Update: I still consider that it applies, even though it isn't direct to the character.

While the other core devs' are not, Gavin's biases are uniquely disqualifying:

-Gavin could care less about TOR users and decentralization
-Gavin wants to change the 10 min block target
-Gavin doesn't believe proof of work has a place in BTC's long-term future
-Gavin pointedly bypassed the normal proposal discussion channels in favor of smoky/spooky VC backrooms and Reddit demagoguery

He's either gone crazy or been compromised.  I don't need to speculate about the why or how to see that.

I've seen no information in regards to the first point. However I'm against the three others. While I've stated in another thread that the developers need to propose solutions that are better than Gavins and implement on time. They should stick together rather than disband at times like these. I'm strongly against the hostile takeover that Gavin could potentially be planing.

[jonald_fyookball]

The core developers, Gregory, Pieter, Luke and Matt are involved in a company Blockstream: https://www.blockstream.com/team/ .
Obviously they want Blockstream to be successful. Please tell me how Gavin is biased and the others aren't.  

There are two sides to (almost) each story, and there definitely are hidden agendas involved here.

Luke is involved in Blockstream?  I don't see him at your /team/ link.  Also conspicuously absent is Garzik, who opposes Bitcoin-XT as well.

Either way, the 'Only Blockstream conflicts of interest prevent 20mb block support' meme is idiotic.  Case in point: Mircea.  So fuck off with the defamatory accusations of "hidden agendas."

While the other core devs' are not, Gavin's biases are uniquely disqualifying:

-Gavin could care less about TOR users and decentralization
-Gavin wants to change the 10 min block target
-Gavin doesn't believe proof of work has a place in BTC's long-term future
-Gavin pointedly bypassed the normal proposal discussion channels in favor of smoky/spooky VC backrooms and Reddit demagoguery

He's either gone crazy or been compromised.  I don't need to speculate about the why or how to see that.

woah woah... where does Gavin say he doesn't believe in PoW?  This I gotta see.

[GenTarkin]

despite all this hullaballoo .. no bitcoin price slide. apparently the market does not give a crap about Gavin

You didnt notice the near $10 price drop since yesterday?!?!?! This is only the beginning. Once word of this coders bullshit goes public its gonna be mass panic.

[Moebius327]

despite all this hullaballoo .. no bitcoin price slide. apparently the market does not give a crap about Gavin

You didnt notice the near $10 price drop since yesterday?!?!?! This is only the beginning. Once word of this coders bullshit goes public its gonna be mass panic.

I pretty much agree with this statement. But I am also sure that Gavin has his reasons and maybe shit already hit the fans.

[Lauda]

woah woah... where does Gavin say he doesn't believe in PoW?  This I gotta see.

Gavin has said many times, in private, that he does not believe long term that the chain will be secured by proof-of-work. I'm sorry I don't secretly carry a cryptographic timestamping recording device on me, so I can't prove it in a formal way... if you really believe I'd just outright lie about that, I there isn't much more that I can offer.

It's the second post by Maxwell here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/37vg8y/is_the_blockstream_company_the_reason_why_4_core/crqbd78

The question is do you believe Maxwell or Gavin?

You didnt notice the near $10 price drop since yesterday?!?!?! This is only the beginning. Once word of this coders bullshit goes public its gonna be mass panic.

Yesterday it was $236 now it is $231. That is not near $10. However I do agree and this just confirms Vod's words:

Such a move will only weaken Bitcoin's credibility in the eyes of the public.  

[iCEBREAKER]

the 'Only Blockstream conflicts of interest prevent 20mb block support' meme is idiotic. 

Case in point: Mircea.  So fuck off with the defamatory accusations of "hidden agendas."

Ad hominem anyone? You should express yourself in a better way if you want people to take you more seriously.

It is insult, not ad hom, to request you fuck off with cypher's/your/Reddit's frankly offensive '1MB support = Blockstream conspiracy' canard (because the existence of petertodd, Lukejr, and MP demonstrate it is false).

Actual ad hom would (for example) be calling you oversensitive, or stupid for not knowing the difference between insult and ad hom.   

[jonald_fyookball]

woah woah... where does Gavin say he doesn't believe in PoW?  This I gotta see.

Gavin has said many times, in private, that he does not believe long term that the chain will be secured by proof-of-work. I'm sorry I don't secretly carry a cryptographic timestamping recording device on me, so I can't prove it in a formal way... if you really believe I'd just outright lie about that, I there isn't much more that I can offer.

It's the second post by Maxwell here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/37vg8y/is_the_blockstream_company_the_reason_why_4_core/crqbd78

The question is do you believe Maxwell or Gavin?

You didnt notice the near $10 price drop since yesterday?!?!?! This is only the beginning. Once word of this coders bullshit goes public its gonna be mass panic.

Yesterday it was $236 now it is $231. That is not near $10. However I do agree and this just confirms Vod's words:

Such a move will only weaken Bitcoin's credibility in the eyes of the public.  

Ahh I see.  Well, this is a bit overblown IMO to say Gavin's been compromised or crazy.
This is Greg relaying third hand what Gavin said in private "long term" about the
security, and speculating about other consensus algorithms as many people do.
It doesn't mean he's advocating get rid of PoW.

I understand Greg's position...presumably, there may be better ways to deal with
scalability than huge block size increases which could lead to centralization,
but I also understand Gavin's position that we should do something now to
avoid issues.

I'm not too worried, I think the situation will work itself out as it always does.
 

[RealMalatesta]

In a situation like this, I would love to hear what the pools and producers of hardware have to say. And what about the Bitcoin Foundation? Would they kick out Gavin or not? Hm, I guess not, if they accept Brock-Neucoin in the board...

[tvbcof]

Isn't Hearn that dude who wanted to force proof of identity by having people verify their passports?

Bitcoin  >>  Gavcoin >>  Fedcoin

Yes.  I'm not a mind reader and cannot say what Hearn(dresen) does and does not favor, but he also spurred a quasi-private conversation about the implementation of 'red-listing' within the Bitcoin Foundation.  I've never seen any indication that he wished for it to NOT occur.

Early in my exposure to Bitcoin (GPU days) Hearn posited that monopolization of mining by large players could make un-favored transactions nearly impossible.  'There is no real difference between taking someone's money and keeping them from spending it for 20 years' was something close to his quote.  I give the guy a huge amount of credit for his prescience about the way things were likely to centralize as mining technology evolved.  The big sticking point here is that with the block size at 1MB it is still relatively practical for many people to be infrastructure providers (which is why I have not yet totally lost interest in and hope for Bitcoin.)

It is worth note that Hearn's apparent conceptions of what Bitcoin should be like (that is, reasonably controllable by \) are probably more palatable to the general population, and even to the majority of techies, than the alternative.  Early adopters are a rarefied pool who were interested in Bitcoin for other reasons.  Some philosophical, some intellectual, some political, some criminal, some speculative, etc.  Most some combination.

---

My favored graphical representation would be:

  Bitcoin  >>  Gavcoin >>  Govincoin >> Govcoin

[jonald_fyookball]

Hearn has blatantly admitted his authoritarian leanings on more than one occasion.   I don't trust him.