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Author Topic: Iraq PM: We Lost 2,300 American Humvees to ISIS in Mosul Alone  (Read 13052 times)
galdur
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June 03, 2015, 04:00:42 PM
 #21

Seeks More Arms and Vehicles From US

by Jason Ditz, May 31, 2015


In an interview today on Iraqiya TV, Prime Minister Hayder Abadi made a plea for more US military aid, saying the country lost a lot of weapons over the course of last year’s war, including large caches abandoned by troops in the initial ISIS push last summer.

“We lost 2,300 Humvees in Mosul alone.....

Wait, so now we've got 2,300 TARGETS?

Smiley

No no, the 2300 is old news. Maybe you don´t follow the news much. Mosul? That ring a bell at all? The U.S "trained" Iraqi so called military has been busy handing much more stuff over to ISIS since then which Uncle Sam keeps shipping over.

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June 03, 2015, 04:19:43 PM
 #22

I was listening to Al-Abidi(ISF) talk about an attack a few days ago that killed 45 soldiers.  He was very concerned about how sophisticated the VBIED(car bomb) had become. The enemy now uses heavenly reinforced dump trucks and even captured MRAPs. The explosions are like "mini atomic bombs" that take out whole city blocks. He went on to say that "they can't stop them".

Think about how hard a target that is. A military vehicle, like the one below, coming at you at  50MPH. Bullets won't stop it, even a lucky shot from an RPG likely won't stop it. Such vehicles can also shoot back with a withering stream of bullets. Gate duty must suck in Iraq.


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June 03, 2015, 04:36:34 PM
 #23

ISIS Closes Ramadi Dam Gates, Cutting Water Flow to Govt-Held Territory
Anbar Council Chief Urges US Airstrikes on Dam


by Jason Ditz, June 02, 2015

Dams all along the Euphrates River have become an increasingly important target in the ongoing ISIS war in Iraq. The capture of dams upriver has allowed ISIS to control waterflow into government-held areas downriver. Most recent, they have closed the dams in Ramadi, dramatically cutting water levels further east.

Anbar Provincial Council Chief Sabah Karhout warned that the lower water level to the east, the last part of Anbar that is still government-held, could mean a massive humanitarian crisis across Iraq. He is calling for the US to launch airstrikes on the dam to reopen the water flow.

That’s potentially hugely dangerous, not only because Ramadi is a major city of 500,000 people, but because the destruction of the dam is liable to flood parts of the surrounding area, at least temporarily. That’s been a long-standing concern in Anbar, as control over the dams has raised the possibility of each side using flooding as a weapon, either offensively or simply as cover for attacks.

The US probably won’t launch attacks on the dam, however, as it would undercut Pentagon predictions that the city, and the dam by extension, are going to be retaken in a matter of days.

http://news.antiwar.com/2015/06/02/isis-closes-ramadi-dam-gates-cutting-water-flow-to-govt-held-territory/

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June 03, 2015, 04:43:51 PM
 #24

Dude, where’s my Humvee? Iraq losing equipment to Islamic State at staggering rate

By Peter Van Buren June 2, 2015

Iraqi security forces lost 2,300 Humvee armored vehicles when Islamic State overran the northern city of Mosul in June 2014, Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi said on Sunday in an interview with Iraqiya state television. Coupled with previous losses of American weapons, the conclusion is simple: The United States is effectively supplying Islamic State with tools of war the militant group cannot otherwise hope to acquire from its patrons.

In addition to the Humvees, Iraqi forces previously abandoned significant types and numbers of heavy weapons to Islamic State. For example, losses to Islamic State include at least 40 M1A1 main battle tanks, as well as small arms and ammunition, including 74,000 machine guns, and as many as 52 M198 howitzer mobile gun systems.

“We lost a lot of weapons,” Abadi admitted.

To help replenish Iraq’s motor pool, the U.S. State Department last year approved a sale to Iraq of 1,000 Humvees, along with their armor upgrades, machine guns and grenade launchers. The United States previously donated 250 Mine Resistant Armored Personnel carriers (MRAPs) to Iraq, plus unaccountable amounts of material left behind when American forces departed in 2011. The United States is currently in the process of moving to Iraq 175 M1A1 Abrams main battle tanks, 55,000 rounds of main tank-gun ammunition, $600 million in howitzers and trucks, $700 million worth of Hellfire missiles and 2,000 AT-4 rockets.

The Hellfires and AT-4′s, anti-tank weapons, are presumably going to be used to help destroy the American armor in the hands of Islamic State. The United States is also conducting air strikes to destroy weapons seized by Islamic State. It’s a surreal state of affairs in which American weaponry is being sent into Iraq to destroy American weaponry previously sent into Iraq. If a new sequel to Catch-22 were to be written, this would be the plot line.

The United States also continues to spend money on training the Iraqi military. Some 3,000 American soldiers are currently in Iraq preparing Iraqi soldiers to perhaps someday fight Islamic State; many of the Americans are conducting the training on former military bases abandoned by the United States following Gulf War 2.0. In addition, some $1.2 billion in training funds for Iraq were tucked into an omnibus spending bill that Congress passed earlier this year. This is in spite of the sad reality that from 2003 to 2011, the United States spent $25 billion training Iraqi security forces.

The return on these training investments? The Iraqi army had 30,000 soldiers in Mosul, who ran away in the face of about 1,000 Islamic State fighters. The same thing happened just a few weeks ago in Ramadi, where 10,000 Iraqi soldiers, collapsing faster than a cardboard box in the rain, fled ahead of only 400 Islamic State fighters. The Iraqis left behind more weapons.

In an interview with me a year ago, Chris Coyne, professor of economics at the Mercatus Center at George Mason University, predicted this exact scenario well before the United States sent troops back into Iraq:

“The United States government provided significant amounts of military hardware to the Iraqi government with the intention that it would be used for good. However, during the Islamic State offensive, many of the Iraqis turned and ran, leaving behind the United States-supplied hardware. This weapons windfall may further alter the dynamics in Syria.

“Now the United States government wants to provide more military supplies to the Iraqi government to combat Islamic State. But I haven’t heard many people recognizing, let alone discussing, the potential negative unintended consequences of doing so. How do we know the weapons and supplies will be used as desired? Why should we have any confidence that supplying more military hardware to a country with a dysfunctional and ineffective government will lead to a good outcome either in Iraq or in the broader region?”

The impact of all these heavy weapons falling into Islamic State hands is significant for American foreign policy goals in the Middle East. A report prepared for the United Nations Security Council warns that Islamic State possesses sufficient reserves of small arms, ammunition and vehicles to wage its war in Syria and Iraq for two more years.

And that presumes the United States won’t be losing more tools of war to Islamic State, thanks to the Iraqi army.

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/06/02/dude-wheres-my-humvee-iraqi-equipment-losses-to-islamic-state-are-out-of-control/

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June 03, 2015, 05:06:27 PM
 #25

lol.... 10,000 Iraqi soldiers, who were trained for years by the United States military officers could not defend against a mere 400 Islamic State fighters, many of whom lacking any sort of military training at all. Either there is something seriously wrong with the US military training, or the United States is training the wrong people.

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June 03, 2015, 05:51:53 PM
 #26

lol.... 10,000 Iraqi soldiers, who were trained for years by the United States military officers could not defend against a mere 400 Islamic State fighters, many of whom lacking any sort of military training at all. Either there is something seriously wrong with the US military training, or the United States is training the wrong people.

It is sad. I think early on the best fighters joined the insurgency and vowed to never fight with the Americans. Combine that with the "de-Bathafication" rule that snubbed the entire Iraqi army and we were left with dropouts, criminals, the homeless. Now put those guys under the leadership of corrupt officers who regularly steal from their troops and you have the kind of army that flees a fight with 10 to 1 odds in their favor.

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June 03, 2015, 06:26:11 PM
 #27

lol.... 10,000 Iraqi soldiers, who were trained for years by the United States military officers could not defend against a mere 400 Islamic State fighters, many of whom lacking any sort of military training at all. Either there is something seriously wrong with the US military training, or the United States is training the wrong people.

Well, those so called "trainers" and "advisers" are much more concerned about being shot in the back by their "allies" than being much out in the field "training".

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June 04, 2015, 02:13:54 AM
 #28

It is sad. I think early on the best fighters joined the insurgency and vowed to never fight with the Americans. Combine that with the "de-Bathafication" rule that snubbed the entire Iraqi army and we were left with dropouts, criminals, the homeless. Now put those guys under the leadership of corrupt officers who regularly steal from their troops and you have the kind of army that flees a fight with 10 to 1 odds in their favor.

I will agree partially. But there was a much better option. The Americans had a large pool of Kurdish Peshmerga fighters with them. These fighters were having decades of fighting experience, and were much more motivated compared to their Shiite Arab colleagues. However, the Peshmerga are lacking quality weapons. And the Americans are refusing to help them, as NATO member Turkey is against any move to transfer arms to the Peshmerga.

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June 04, 2015, 03:29:21 PM
 #29

lol.... 10,000 Iraqi soldiers, who were trained for years by the United States military officers could not defend against a mere 400 Islamic State fighters, many of whom lacking any sort of military training at all. Either there is something seriously wrong with the US military training, or the United States is training the wrong people.

It is sad. I think early on the best fighters joined the insurgency and vowed to never fight with the Americans. Combine that with the "de-Bathafication" rule that snubbed the entire Iraqi army and we were left with dropouts, criminals, the homeless. Now put those guys under the leadership of corrupt officers who regularly steal from their troops and you have the kind of army that flees a fight with 10 to 1 odds in their favor.

Yeah disbanding the entire Iraqi army probably was the smartest move by the US, now that Iraq is pretty much a failed state you can't really blame the soldiers there for not wanting to fight ISIS.
They're stuck between a rock and a hard place, if I was a civilian there I'd be getting the hell out of there sharpish, I can only see it getting worse once the fighting intensifies.
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June 04, 2015, 03:35:42 PM
 #30

Yep, they´ve created an endless gravy train.

Gen. Allen: ISIS War to Last ‘A Generation or More’
Obama's War Envoy Insists ISIS a Threat to Progress


by Jason Ditz, June 03, 2015

Out of and quickly back into Iraq, the Pentagon and its officials have talked about the new ISIS war with barely restrained glee as another chance to keep pushing Congress for bigger budgets, and for “emergency” war funding every single year.

Retired Marine Gen. John Allen, who has become President Obama’s special ambassador for the war, going around the world selling it to potential allies, today predicted the conflict would be much longer than anyone imagines, saying it “will likely take a generation or more.”

Citing his four decades in the Marines, Allen insists ISIS is the most brutal group ever, and claimed they are a threat to “the progress of humanity” if not defeated militarily. Which, again, he says is going to take “a generation or more.”

The American publicly is likely not up for another protracted, nation-bankrupting conflict, particularly since they’ve already got one ongoing in Afghanistan and just freshly got extricated from the last one in Iraq. Polls show war weariness already growing among voters nine months into the new war, with 61% saying the war is going badly, and 29% saying it’s going “very badly.”

That’s a surprising level of skepticism for this early in a war, particularly with the administration loudly insisting, every chance they get, that they are “winning” the war. The public is clearly not buying it, and that’s going to be a problem for the pro-war factions of both parties as months extend into years, let alone “generations.”

To the extent officials attempted to sell the American public on the ISIS war at all, it was couched as an extremely limited conflict, both in scope and timescale. The Pentagon has since escalated their involvement countless times, seemingly only making things worse with each escalation, and is now making it plain that what was supposed to be a  quick intervention to shift the momentum in favor of the Iraqi military is actually going to be an endless war of attrition aimed at destroying the de facto caliphate.

http://news.antiwar.com/2015/06/03/gen-allen-isis-war-to-last-a-generation-or-more/

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June 04, 2015, 03:37:07 PM
 #31

Yeah disbanding the entire Iraqi army probably was the smartest move by the US, now that Iraq is pretty much a failed state you can't really blame the soldiers there for not wanting to fight ISIS.

The NATO allowed only people with no combat experience to enroll in to the new Iraqi army. Also, the old army was dominated by the Sunni Arabs, and Shiites were mostly excluded. The current Iraqi army is almost 90% Shiite, and none of these guys have any combat experience. Most of the Sunni ex-soldiers joined the ISIS, to wage war against the central government.

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June 04, 2015, 06:31:32 PM
 #32

US-trained snr Tajik special forces commander defects to ISIS, swears jihad

Published on Jun 4, 2015
A senior Tajik police officer has defected to Islamic State - that's despite spending years in US military training bases, undergoing counter-terrorism courses. READ MORE: http://on.rt.com/0s6wk6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15dL4TOYRPE

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June 04, 2015, 06:45:41 PM
 #33

... The Humvees weren’t destroyed, by and large, but were rather simply left behind by fleeing troops, .....

Let me get this straight, you are running away from the enemy army and you leave the Humvee?  Wouldn't you drive the Humvee away?

Seriously, it is shameful that the Iraqi army ran away from ISIS in Mosul, and incompetent that they failed to destroy the supplies and equipment they left behind.
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June 04, 2015, 06:51:54 PM
 #34

... The Humvees weren’t destroyed, by and large, but were rather simply left behind by fleeing troops, .....

Let me get this straight, you are running away from the enemy army and you leave the Humvee?  Wouldn't you drive the Humvee away?

Seriously, it is shameful that the Iraqi army ran away from ISIS in Mosul, and incompetent that they failed to destroy the supplies and equipment they left behind.

Well, the U.S. has been "training" these people for over a decade so I guess they acted accordingly. Unless all this "training" is nothing but yet another gravy train scam exploiting these fraudulent wars and it didn´t really take place.

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June 04, 2015, 07:00:32 PM
 #35

Incidentally; the Ukrainian military also left a treasure trove of materiel at the Debaltsevo pocket after retreating from there last winter. When militaries act like this, leaving armaments and material intact for the opposition to use - well you have to sort of wonder where the sympathies lie.

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June 05, 2015, 12:47:50 AM
 #36

Seeks More Arms and Vehicles From US

by Jason Ditz, May 31, 2015


In an interview today on Iraqiya TV, Prime Minister Hayder Abadi made a plea for more US military aid, saying the country lost a lot of weapons over the course of last year’s war, including large caches abandoned by troops in the initial ISIS push last summer.

“We lost 2,300 Humvees in Mosul alone,” noted Abadi. The Humvees weren’t destroyed, by and large, but were rather simply left behind by fleeing troops, and were subsequently taken by ISIS. The Humvees were only a portion of what was lost, as ISIS acquired tanks, artillery, armored vehicles, basically a small army’s worth of advanced US gear in the fall of the major city.

After the fall of Mosul, the US began seeking to ratchet up sales and aid to Iraq, and approved the sale of another 1,000 Humvees to Iraq, an estimated $579 million deal. How much of that has been delivered so far is unclear, but the fall of Ramadi this month led to scores of additional armored vehicles, including Humvees, being seized by ISIS.

There has been surprisingly little debate in the US about the wisdom of further shipments to Iraq’s military, inasmuch as those shipments have tended to amount to delayed shipments to ISIS, and the Pentagon has hyped the large number of Humvees and armored vehicles it has destroyed in the war so far, seemingly oblivious to the fact that those are US-provided arms that the US is just going to keep providing.

http://news.antiwar.com/2015/05/31/iraq-pm-we-lost-2300-american-humvees-to-isis-in-mosul-alone/

Galdur, you really reminded me last aired episode of GoT with Caliph instead of White Walker King  Smiley "Whatever, you send at us, it will just make us stronger, so come on bitch."

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June 05, 2015, 01:08:21 AM
 #37

Well, like the Russians say - a fish rots from the head. When the high command is crap which is puppets for more crap the military commanded by said crap is likely to be rather how should I put it...crappy?

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June 05, 2015, 02:28:12 AM
 #38

Let me get this straight, you are running away from the enemy army and you leave the Humvee?  Wouldn't you drive the Humvee away?

The Humvee is a vary heavy vehicle, which is difficult to manoeuvre through bumpy terrain. And most of the vehicles were parked inside the miltary base parking lots, away from the barracks. The ISIS attack happened all of a sudden, and the first priority for the Iraqi soldiers was to save their lives. Rather than going to the parking lot and conducting a organized withdrawal, they fled in whatever vehicles they could find.  Grin

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galdur
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June 05, 2015, 02:47:48 AM
 #39

Yes, like 1500 ISIS fighters advanced on Mosul for about a week under the watchful eyes of brain-dead U.S. satellite info watchers and other worthless intelligence before defeating a totally useless military force which outnumbered them 15-20 to one.

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June 06, 2015, 05:35:43 AM
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ISIS will need a huge recruitment drive for manpower to use all this stuff that´s on the way now:

Officials: Pentagon Quietly Starts Massive New Arms Deliveries to Iraq
$1.6 Billion Fund Being Used for New Military Aid Shipments


by Jason Ditz, June 05, 2015

Even though Iraqi Prime Minister Hayder Abadi spent this week’s Paris summit complaining about the lack of aid deliveries, US officials say that the Pentagon had already begun its massive new shipments of armament to the Iraqi military, and that the first deliveries were made two weeks ago.

The shipments are the first part of the $1.6 billion “Iraqi Train and Equip Fund” that Congress created last year, and shipments delivered so far have included grenade launchers, mortars, and machine guns. Iraqi officials are still complaining about the slow rate of shipment.

Pentagon spokeswoman Commander Elissa Smith says that there will be a number of additional arms shipments in the coming weeks, including some direct provision of arms to the Iraqi Kurdish paramilitary force the Peshmerga.

That’s been a contentious subject with the Iraqi government. Under US law, shipment to forces inside a country have to be approved by that country’s central government, and the Iraqis aren’t keen to see the Peshmerga get too powerful because of Kurdish secessionist ambitions. Pentagon officials, however, have indicated the arms shipping will continue irrespective of Iraqi objections.

http://news.antiwar.com/2015/06/05/officials-pentagon-quietly-starts-massive-new-arms-deliveries-to-iraq/

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