Is mining dead ?

[VirosaGITS]

If they did not have new chips they would just make the same miners with same efficiency.  Having old technology would not stop companies from making miners, as a lot pay very little on big data centers.  So difficulty would still go up.

Difficulty is not going to sit still, this just wot happen no matter what situation is.  It can move slower upwards.... but not remain the same (assuming BTC does not crash or something hugely go wrong)

As someone who pay's electricity I can tell you new miners are a good thing overall.  Only way I can see people not thinking so is "free" miners or extremely cheap electricity miners.

Yes, like people in china, and it does not matter if the companies would continue let say, make S5 forever if there is nothing better.
In a world where more people online S5 when the hashrate network would already be saturated with S5, this means someone found cheaper electricity than others, and thus will knock off other people with less cheap electricity.

The diff will go up a smidgen and will then normalize. The only time more S5 will be onlined if the whole world was running S5 is if its still profitable, and it is only so in that case.

Hence the difficulty would pretty much stagnate. Albeit slowly upward as people setup their next Farm in a more profitable farm.

Hence the only reason you and i want more efficient hardware, is to stay competitive with the difficulty going up, which is going up because huge data center of hardware is being onlined somewhere they pay 10 to 100 times less than us.

I don't think you can say it will "normalize".   With cheap electricity and if it is profitable even if they were not researching new gear, they would pump out the same gear and expand mining in many places.  So difficulty keeps going up really no matter what happens.

Only thing I see that could hurt difficulty is having.  If at having it makes it where a lot have to drop off... who knows what will happen.  It's just not something we can predict.  But it's actually looking not to bad if BTC value keeps going up.

Thats not really possible (to keep on buying), it will "normalize" to the electricity price. For instance if people keep buying and putting hardware on 0.01$/kWh, thats going to lower the profitability by raising the difficulty, eventually it will not be profitable to get more hardware run on 0.01$/kWh.

The only way to get more profit would be to run it on less than 0.01$/kWh.

For the halving... i think this one is going to be more chaotic than the first one, but we'll have to wait and see what it does to the home miners.

I guess I might not be doing a good job of explaining my thoughts.  I would think coin prices would still go up.  They would not find a price and stay or normalize there.

With BTC going up in price they could continue to  make gear and make profit (in a lot of cases not all).   To normalize as you put it to be at a point where btc price stays in same place and difficulty I just don't think this would ever happen in real life.  You might be able to come up with a fictional thing were it does this.  But from past we have never really ever seen this.

Even now in past weeks look at BTC price it show's it does not stay the same and can be hard predict BTC prices over time.

If the BTC price would still go up, then more miners would get onlined, but profitability per miner would remain the same. More miners would mine Bitcoin until it is no longer profitable to add more at the 0.01$/kWh. Then when BTC go down, people would probably still mine at a loss and just sell when it go back up.

So difficulty would not change much or at least, not quickly.

Diff up and diff down would probably become speculative on the BTC trending price.

[notlist3d]

*was to long
If the BTC price would still go up, then more miners would get onlined, but profitability per miner would remain the same. More miners would mine Bitcoin until it is no longer profitable to add more at the 0.01$/kWh. Then when BTC go down, people would probably still mine at a loss and just sell when it go back up.

So difficulty would not change much or at least, not quickly.

Diff up and diff down would probably become speculative on the BTC trending price.

But you can't say how much BTC price would go up.   You are making a fictional situation that will not happen.  BTC price remaining same or going up same amount, and difficulty remaing same where people don't make new gear... its far fetched.

Look at price on BTC it went up 100 dollars each on value pretty recent.   You just cannot predict all factors and there will not be a normalization where all asic makers stop making gear.   Your idea about what would happen if we didn't have new gear is again fictional, BTC companies are in a arms race and will continue to make more and more efficient gear.

[ingiltere]

Mining is more alive than ever. I'm patiently waiting my S7's to come. It's so exciting for me because I haven't mined coins for a long time. I made my calculations, found cheap electricity deals, everything is ready, only miners are missing.
I'll probably get them in Monday or Tuesday.

[VirosaGITS]

*was to long
If the BTC price would still go up, then more miners would get onlined, but profitability per miner would remain the same. More miners would mine Bitcoin until it is no longer profitable to add more at the 0.01$/kWh. Then when BTC go down, people would probably still mine at a loss and just sell when it go back up.

So difficulty would not change much or at least, not quickly.

Diff up and diff down would probably become speculative on the BTC trending price.

But you can't say how much BTC price would go up.   You are making a fictional situation that will not happen.  BTC price remaining same or going up same amount, and difficulty remaing same where people don't make new gear... its far fetched.

Look at price on BTC it went up 100 dollars each on value pretty recent.   You just cannot predict all factors and there will not be a normalization where all asic makers stop making gear.   Your idea about what would happen if we didn't have new gear is again fictional, BTC companies are in a arms race and will continue to make more and more efficient gear.

I'm not talking about predicting or a fictional future in a impossible scenario. Its an example for what i'm saying to make more sense;

It does not matter if the price goes up or down, the rule still apply, no matter what.

All i been saying is that the only reason we need to get more efficient hardware is because others have more efficient setup. If there was no such thing, then we would not need to "arm race" in the first place.

On the bright side, at one point we'll have reached the technological edge and the "arm race" will happen at a much slower speed since productions cost will outweight the benefits.

[Amph]

Mining is more alive than ever. I'm patiently waiting my S7's to come. It's so exciting for me because I haven't mined coins for a long time. I made my calculations, found cheap electricity deals, everything is ready, only miners are missing.
I'll probably get them in Monday or Tuesday.

now that the price is rising, with your cheap electricty, it's obviously profitable, but not everyone can say the same, for the majority certinly it isn't

if the price increase even more, fast enough it may be profitable for many other...

[winspiral]

mining can not die.
mining is regulated by the market...
as soon it is less profitable...less people will mine...
and then profit will increase...
and then more people will mine...etc...etc

[CoinSkipper]

Hi, when I got into bitcoins, people around me already told me mining is dead. BTC mining will not make you any money because the electricity fee used will be greater than the outcome. Is this true? And how can btc mining be easier again?

The mining game's pretty bad currently.

But I think bitcoin mining will die even more when the halving comes. The coinbase is halved? Jesus, miners will leave in droves!

[winspiral]

Hi, when I got into bitcoins, people around me already told me mining is dead. BTC mining will not make you any money because the electricity fee used will be greater than the outcome. Is this true? And how can btc mining be easier again?

The mining game's pretty bad currently.

But I think bitcoin mining will die even more when the halving comes. The coinbase is halved? Jesus, miners will leave in droves!

ok...but when halving they are less bitcoins created and this can help that the bitcoin price grows or falls down less...

[Mickeyb]

Hi, when I got into bitcoins, people around me already told me mining is dead. BTC mining will not make you any money because the electricity fee used will be greater than the outcome. Is this true? And how can btc mining be easier again?

The mining game's pretty bad currently.

But I think bitcoin mining will die even more when the halving comes. The coinbase is halved? Jesus, miners will leave in droves!

Some will leave, but we can do without them. Currently we have enormous amount of the hashrate and to be honest, we don't need this much. So even if we lose let's say 30%, not a big deal.

Then again, look at the price. If we get to $500 before the halving and halving happens, it's like nothing has happened really. And looking at today's price, $500 is more than possible.

[notlist3d]

Hi, when I got into bitcoins, people around me already told me mining is dead. BTC mining will not make you any money because the electricity fee used will be greater than the outcome. Is this true? And how can btc mining be easier again?

The mining game's pretty bad currently.

But I think bitcoin mining will die even more when the halving comes. The coinbase is halved? Jesus, miners will leave in droves!

Some will leave, but we can do without them. Currently we have enormous amount of the hashrate and to be honest, we don't need this much. So even if we lose let's say 30%, not a big deal.

Then again, look at the price. If we get to $500 before the halving and halving happens, it's like nothing has happened really. And looking at today's price, $500 is more than possible.

We will never lose 30 percent of hashrate.  Espically if price keeps going up this jump was huge on making miners profitable that were marginal.

One day we will lose a bunch of A1's .... but I suspect a lot of them will be replaced with newer gear as I think they are in China datacenters on a  lot of them.   But time will tell. 

[Tmdz]

The only way we will loose a lot of hash will be if price takes a dump or if price remains steady halving comes and everyone is on a thin margin resulting in lost profit and hash will reduce.  I don't see alot of lost hash anytime in the future only more and prices are there to support it for it.  Difficulty will catch up and bring things back to the old levels, keeping things balanced.  A likely possibility is that prices could soar pass what hash can currently do, in that case we win big until halving makes us normal again.

The biggest threat is how thin of a profit will everyone will mine at and if you can continue to mine at that level.  Look at when prices were low a little bit ago and some of the cloud miners had to stop.  If you could mine at home and make a gain even if it was very small then it is likely you can withstand market conditions.  I also feel as this is a good time to get started in mining as decent gains can be made on last gen hardware that can be sold later for new hardware when those margins become too thin for your resources or you have enough btc stocked up to help future proof and make better gains.

[notlist3d]

The only way we will loose a lot of hash will be if price takes a dump or if price remains steady halving comes and everyone is on a thin margin resulting in lost profit and hash will reduce.  I don't see alot of lost hash anytime in the future only more and prices are there to support it for it.  Difficulty will catch up and bring things back to the old levels, keeping things balanced.  A likely possibility is that prices could soar pass what hash can currently do, in that case we win big until halving makes us normal again.

The biggest threat is how thin of a profit will everyone will mine at and if you can continue to mine at that level.  Look at when prices were low a little bit ago and some of the cloud miners had to stop.  If you could mine at home and make a gain even if it was very small then it is likely you can withstand market conditions.  I also feel as this is a good time to get started in mining as decent gains can be made on last gen hardware that can be sold later for new hardware when those margins become too thin for your resources or you have enough btc stocked up to help future proof and make better gains.

At some point gear is obsolete though.  Look at like BFL minrig... that thing even "free" I would be surprised if many are still running.   One day A1's have to hit a obsolete point even at cheap electricity.

So far I think there are a ton in china running at cheap electricity.  But the recent price raise for sure put more life into A1's.

[YuginKadoya]

At some point gear is obsolete though.  Look at like BFL minrig... that thing even "free" I would be surprised if many are still running.   One day A1's have to hit a obsolete point even at cheap electricity.

So far I think there are a ton in china running at cheap electricity.  But the recent price raise for sure put more life into A1's.

Yes! I think A1's now has a purpose to play in mining and I think bitcoin will still increase up to Nov. 5 I wish, hehe it is good to mine this time stock more and more bitcoin in the coming halving and wish it will increase

[notlist3d]

At some point gear is obsolete though.  Look at like BFL minrig... that thing even "free" I would be surprised if many are still running.   One day A1's have to hit a obsolete point even at cheap electricity.

So far I think there are a ton in china running at cheap electricity.  But the recent price raise for sure put more life into A1's.

Yes! I think A1's now has a purpose to play in mining and I think bitcoin will still increase up to Nov. 5 I wish, hehe it is good to mine this time stock more and more bitcoin in the coming halving and wish it will increase

This increase no doubt kept the A1's mining.  With cheap electricity gear stay's on the network a long time.  And in china I think there are sizable amounts of A1's still mining away in some data centers.

Having it's hard to say what will happen.  I'm just happy for how its doing now

[Don007]

At some point gear is obsolete though.  Look at like BFL minrig... that thing even "free" I would be surprised if many are still running.   One day A1's have to hit a obsolete point even at cheap electricity.

So far I think there are a ton in china running at cheap electricity.  But the recent price raise for sure put more life into A1's.

Yes! I think A1's now has a purpose to play in mining and I think bitcoin will still increase up to Nov. 5 I wish, hehe it is good to mine this time stock more and more bitcoin in the coming halving and wish it will increase

This increase no doubt kept the A1's mining.  With cheap electricity gear stay's on the network a long time.  And in china I think there are sizable amounts of A1's still mining away in some data centers.

Having it's hard to say what will happen.  I'm just happy for how its doing now

As long as the energy is cheap (or even free somethimes), it is even profitable to keep those miners running. Especially now the value of the BTC is increasing and increasing.

Remind that mining with A1's for some people might not seem to be profitable nowadays (due to electricity costs), but if the value of BTC keeps increasing, it might turn out that mining nowadays was profitable though. (Yes, they could also spent the money directly on BTC instead of electricity in this case).

[knowhow]

Well there is and will be always someone supporting the bitcoin,the first adopters sure the most of them roi and keep their farmers active and some had made their mine projects and keep mining,even more now that bitcoin achieved the 400 dollars value.

[notlist3d]

At some point gear is obsolete though.  Look at like BFL minrig... that thing even "free" I would be surprised if many are still running.   One day A1's have to hit a obsolete point even at cheap electricity.

So far I think there are a ton in china running at cheap electricity.  But the recent price raise for sure put more life into A1's.

Yes! I think A1's now has a purpose to play in mining and I think bitcoin will still increase up to Nov. 5 I wish, hehe it is good to mine this time stock more and more bitcoin in the coming halving and wish it will increase

This increase no doubt kept the A1's mining.  With cheap electricity gear stay's on the network a long time.  And in china I think there are sizable amounts of A1's still mining away in some data centers.

Having it's hard to say what will happen.  I'm just happy for how its doing now

As long as the energy is cheap (or even free somethimes), it is even profitable to keep those miners running. Especially now the value of the BTC is increasing and increasing.

Remind that mining with A1's for some people might not seem to be profitable nowadays (due to electricity costs), but if the value of BTC keeps increasing, it might turn out that mining nowadays was profitable though. (Yes, they could also spent the money directly on BTC instead of electricity in this case).

The thing is mining equipment loses value so darn quick I don't like sitting on equipment Im at a loss.  I sold all my A1's and bought more efficient gear.

It is possible more people are profitable now. As a general rule thought I would not unplug a miner and just let it sit there.  I would sell it.

[VirosaGITS]

At some point gear is obsolete though.  Look at like BFL minrig... that thing even "free" I would be surprised if many are still running.   One day A1's have to hit a obsolete point even at cheap electricity.

So far I think there are a ton in china running at cheap electricity.  But the recent price raise for sure put more life into A1's.

Yes! I think A1's now has a purpose to play in mining and I think bitcoin will still increase up to Nov. 5 I wish, hehe it is good to mine this time stock more and more bitcoin in the coming halving and wish it will increase

This increase no doubt kept the A1's mining.  With cheap electricity gear stay's on the network a long time.  And in china I think there are sizable amounts of A1's still mining away in some data centers.

Having it's hard to say what will happen.  I'm just happy for how its doing now

As long as the energy is cheap (or even free somethimes), it is even profitable to keep those miners running. Especially now the value of the BTC is increasing and increasing.

Remind that mining with A1's for some people might not seem to be profitable nowadays (due to electricity costs), but if the value of BTC keeps increasing, it might turn out that mining nowadays was profitable though. (Yes, they could also spent the money directly on BTC instead of electricity in this case).

The thing is mining equipment loses value so darn quick I don't like sitting on equipment Im at a loss.  I sold all my A1's and bought more efficient gear.

It is possible more people are profitable now. As a general rule thought I would not unplug a miner and just let it sit there.  I would sell it.

It would be best to mine with it at a lost and hold, then sell when BTC is at an acceptable price for profit. A bit rough if you need to cash out BTC to cover the month's budget but if not this work well, assuming you're not mining at a lost simply because your electricity rate is too crazy.

If that is the case then, definitively sell, dont sit on hardware.

[notlist3d]

At some point gear is obsolete though.  Look at like BFL minrig... that thing even "free" I would be surprised if many are still running.   One day A1's have to hit a obsolete point even at cheap electricity.

So far I think there are a ton in china running at cheap electricity.  But the recent price raise for sure put more life into A1's.

Yes! I think A1's now has a purpose to play in mining and I think bitcoin will still increase up to Nov. 5 I wish, hehe it is good to mine this time stock more and more bitcoin in the coming halving and wish it will increase

This increase no doubt kept the A1's mining.  With cheap electricity gear stay's on the network a long time.  And in china I think there are sizable amounts of A1's still mining away in some data centers.

Having it's hard to say what will happen.  I'm just happy for how its doing now

As long as the energy is cheap (or even free somethimes), it is even profitable to keep those miners running. Especially now the value of the BTC is increasing and increasing.

Remind that mining with A1's for some people might not seem to be profitable nowadays (due to electricity costs), but if the value of BTC keeps increasing, it might turn out that mining nowadays was profitable though. (Yes, they could also spent the money directly on BTC instead of electricity in this case).

The thing is mining equipment loses value so darn quick I don't like sitting on equipment Im at a loss.  I sold all my A1's and bought more efficient gear.

It is possible more people are profitable now. As a general rule thought I would not unplug a miner and just let it sit there.  I would sell it.

It would be best to mine with it at a lost and hold, then sell when BTC is at an acceptable price for profit. A bit rough if you need to cash out BTC to cover the month's budget but if not this work well, assuming you're not mining at a lost simply because your electricity rate is too crazy.

If that is the case then, definitively sell, dont sit on hardware.

Depends on how much you are losing.   If you have a large electricity bill mining at a loss is not really the best thing.  Counting on it being worth more in the future is not really safest bet.

I would sell and get more efficient gear.  I like running at a profit.  Keeping gear your losing money mining is not good long term.

[VirosaGITS]

At some point gear is obsolete though.  Look at like BFL minrig... that thing even "free" I would be surprised if many are still running.   One day A1's have to hit a obsolete point even at cheap electricity.

So far I think there are a ton in china running at cheap electricity.  But the recent price raise for sure put more life into A1's.

Yes! I think A1's now has a purpose to play in mining and I think bitcoin will still increase up to Nov. 5 I wish, hehe it is good to mine this time stock more and more bitcoin in the coming halving and wish it will increase

This increase no doubt kept the A1's mining.  With cheap electricity gear stay's on the network a long time.  And in china I think there are sizable amounts of A1's still mining away in some data centers.

Having it's hard to say what will happen.  I'm just happy for how its doing now

As long as the energy is cheap (or even free somethimes), it is even profitable to keep those miners running. Especially now the value of the BTC is increasing and increasing.

Remind that mining with A1's for some people might not seem to be profitable nowadays (due to electricity costs), but if the value of BTC keeps increasing, it might turn out that mining nowadays was profitable though. (Yes, they could also spent the money directly on BTC instead of electricity in this case).

The thing is mining equipment loses value so darn quick I don't like sitting on equipment Im at a loss.  I sold all my A1's and bought more efficient gear.

It is possible more people are profitable now. As a general rule thought I would not unplug a miner and just let it sit there.  I would sell it.

It would be best to mine with it at a lost and hold, then sell when BTC is at an acceptable price for profit. A bit rough if you need to cash out BTC to cover the month's budget but if not this work well, assuming you're not mining at a lost simply because your electricity rate is too crazy.

If that is the case then, definitively sell, dont sit on hardware.

Depends on how much you are losing.   If you have a large electricity bill mining at a loss is not really the best thing.  Counting on it being worth more in the future is not really safest bet.

I would sell and get more efficient gear.  I like running at a profit.  Keeping gear your losing money mining is not good long term.

If you're not really earning(by a small margin) because BTC is at 220$ then you would still profit fully if you profit well at 300$.

If you're losing significantly, this probably mean your electricity costs are too high and you should look into better setups. You could break even S1's on miner hosting, when the price was in the 200s, if you never sold until 300-400 then you would be pretty far ahead.

But i think selling the miners like you said and buying BTC would be a better choice since it is safer and you will profit with it under the same condition as running miners at a loss.